Confirmed with Link: Canucks hire Jim Rutherford as POHO, Interim GM - search for permanent GM will continue

[rypper]

They're obviously no longer part of the organization but I thought this was a good writeup of what they did do while they were here:

 

[Melvin]

Well yeah. If he doesn't hire any analytics guys, then yes we can be concerned about it.

I just can't understand why people are getting worried because they fired the guy who dicked EP40/Hughes around all summer with negotiations and the guy who was apparently ok with cap situation being a complete mess.

Weve been talking for 24 hours about how receptive Rutherford will be to analytics and whether or not he is open to modern ideas and progressive thinking. Before he’s finished sitting down he’s fired the head analytics guy who has served under like 6 prior GMs and was promoted into his role by Gillis. That doesn’t concern you?

A lot of wish-casting about how he’s going to do this or he’s going to do that but for now I’m just going based on what has happened so far.

 

[53or8]

Leaks, unless intentional, usually come from someone frustrated. I remember MS made a point of saying some probably came from Brackett. Wouldn’t be surprised if there were scattered leaks from Gilman/Linden in the years around their departures.

Not sure who else recent leaks would have come from.

The media knows so much that we don’t from my own interactions. They’re just incredibly selective about what they say. Unless you’re sekeres.

It will probably take atleast a decade or more to find out what really was happening over the last decade.Even then I doubt we will find out the real story from anyone.

 

[StreetHawk]

Well yeah. If he doesn't hire any analytics guys, then yes we can be concerned about it.

I just can't understand why people are getting worried because they fired the guy who dicked EP40/Hughes around all summer with negotiations and the guy who was apparently ok with cap situation being a complete mess.

Contract negotiations are a 2 way street. Agents bear their share of responsibility. Aside from McDavid teams wouldn’t give anyone else a blank cheque. Both sides should have gotten down and dirty much earlier.
End result appear to be fair deals based on their production to date with a leap of faith for the future. Not as big a leap as say Jack Hughes got.

which isn’t a bad thing for the franchise.

 

[Petey O]

"Wall had worked closely with Laurence Gilman in the previous Canucks regime and brought significant institutional knowledge to a highly specialized role."

Probably indicates Gilman isn't likely to come here, lol.

 

[God]

we’ve been talking for 24 hours about how receptive Rutherford will be to analytics and Whether or not he is open to modern ideas and progressive thinking. before he’s finished sitting down he’s fired the head analytics guy who has served under like 6 prior GMs and was promoted into his role by Gillis. That doesn’t concern you?

A lot of wish-casting about how he’s going to do this or he’s going to do that but for now I’m just going based on what has happened so far.

Like I said, it doesn't concern me unless he literally doesn't hire anybody to replace him. And I don't really fault him for it because if he has people in mind, there's no point in having Gear/Wall around the organization for any longer if you know you're not going to keep them.

 

[Canucker]

I guess he just didn't like their algorithms?

 

[Melvin]

Like I said, it doesn't concern me unless he literally doesn't hire anybody to replace him. And I don't really fault him for it because if he has people in mind, there's no point in having Gear/Wall around the organization for any longer if you know you're not going to keep them.

Right, well. We’ll see. But as far as I can tell “he has his own people to bring in” is just wish casting. And no reason not to announce their hirings now if so.

but we’ll see.

 

[4Twenty]

I bet you nobody left even knows how to file a waiver claim with the league.

it’s wild to me Benning gets to pass his excuses up to ownership and down to the people who worked under him.

 

[God]

Right, well. We’ll see. But as far as I can tell “he has his own people to bring in” is just wish casting. And no reason not to announce their hirings now if so.

but we’ll see.

I mean, the implication is surely that people will be brought in to replace them. I'm guessing they're currently hired by other organizations and not jobless like Rutherford, Boudreau, and Walker were.

It's more that I am trying my best to be a Positive Patrick after 8 years of dismay.

 

[Burke's Evil Spirit]

The weirdest was when Alex Burmistrov ended up in the organization after the Canucks draft list that had him ranked like, 5th overall or whatever was leaked. Jack Campbell was very high on the list too iirc.

So was Erik Gudbranson IIRC.

 

[F A N]

If that's the case, wouldn't you want people with decision making input in those roles? Like, assuming everything you're saying is true (and I'm not saying it isn't - I just don't really know), these two people sound incredibly average and replaceable, and they have the stink of being around for the 8 Benning years and going along with it. Nothing you've said here convinces me they absolutely need to be here.

Never said that they need to be here. What I was saying is that Gear can go back to being CSE legal counsel and I wonder if that was even an option offered to him. He has no business being an AGM really, unless he's some brilliant hockey mind but I have no way of evaluating that.

Wall's position is to offer data and advice based on the data. He heads the analytics department. He doesn't strike me as THE guy making all the decisiosn there. Point is he's basically there holding a computer and crunching the numbers when called upon. Offering information on what analytics say about a player, for example, is different from being actively involved in the decision making. Now if he's giving wrong recommendations then obviously he deserves to be fired. But I don't think he deserves to fired because he was "part of the previous management group" when he's been here for 20+ years, just there to present data, and given more things to do by previous management.

My point is that those guys were in their respective positions for years and are fired because they ended up being given larger roles and a promotion. They basically stepped up when called upon and lost their long-time gigs because of it. Of course there could be job-related things we don't know and they were kept only because previous management wanted to keep them.

 

[Melvin]

I mean, the implication is surely that people will be brought in to replace them. I'm guessing they're currently hired by other organizations and not jobless like Rutherford, Boudreau, and Walker were.

It's more that I am trying my best to be a Positive Patrick after 8 years of dismay.

Walker wasn’t jobless. And as others have mentioned Aqua might well want to run a leaner front office to save money.

 

[VanJack]

I think Gear and Wall being let go, is all about clearing the decks for Rutherford more than anything else. With the exception of Smyl and Ryan Johnston, the Canucks hockey ops department is now almost down to bedrock.

So Rutherford's job isn't just to find a new GM; but to fill in the rest of the organizational holes. And 'no, one of those holes won't be filled by Gilman. There's not a chance in the world he ever returns to the Canucks.

 

[MarkMM]

It's definitely become increasingly clear that there wasn't any sort of real plan in-place. The chants and jersey-throwing, comically, forced ownership into making a bunch of moves earlier than they wanted. I think that's the cause of all this feeling patched together.

The big thing to me is Smyl saying he's got ideas and plans and will be active...48 hours later he's gone.

If I had to guess, Pearson and one of the RHS guys are first out.

Myers has been improving of late but if he and Pearson were to go then with the exception of OEL and to a more manageable extent Poolman the Canucks are at least not saddled with cap overweights.

Kinda cool to think the Sedins are under real mentorship now by a 72 year old man with 50+ years experience.

They'll be with this organization in a key position for a long time. I'll probably be an old man before they retire.

I liked them as players but have zero reason to think they've proven any potential to be managers, so at best I'm neutral and wary with them.

Weve been talking for 24 hours about how receptive Rutherford will be to analytics and whether or not he is open to modern ideas and progressive thinking. Before he’s finished sitting down he’s fired the head analytics guy who has served under like 6 prior GMs and was promoted into his role by Gillis. That doesn’t concern you?

A lot of wish-casting about how he’s going to do this or he’s going to do that but for now I’m just going based on what has happened so far.

Not automatically, there's just as much reason to think he's going to bring in his own people as he is to think he's not going to do anything with those roles.

 

[Petey O]

Walker wasn’t jobless. And as others have mentioned Aqua might well want to run a leaner front office to save money.

Then the Canucks are simply just never going to win a cup until they have owners that are willing to put money toward this area, if this is the case.

The successful organisations will be the ones who think outside of the box to gain a competitive edge, as has been pointed out here before.

I don't think there's any reason to be positive if they are running a budget front office. Like, zero.

 

[Orca Smash]

This has been something he's talked about a bunch, including today on the show he does on 650 with Jamie Dodd. He expands on it to say cap management as in cap allocation in the day to day. Making sure the team had a 23 man roster, managing LTIR etc. Not in regards to spending x amount of cap on this player.

Was anything done though to say we "excelled" at that in some way? Or just used common sense that any team would do. I just found it odd he used the word excelled and didn't give any examples in the article what made him come to that conclusion that set wall apart from other teams.

Like I said don't mind some of drance opinions but the way he protected green and put 0 blame on him for even a historically bad pk has me questioning his and most medias motives.

 

[Johnny Canucker]

Wow. Look at the JR hiring thread on the main board …. It’s pretty much 100% of people think he’s terrible. Crazy.

 

[Johnny Canucker]

They're obviously no longer part of the organization but I thought this was a good writeup of what they did do while they were here:

View attachment 489700

Well if Gear was responsible for signing EP40 to 7.25M and then he subsequently hasent scored a goal since , he should be fired.

 

[God]

Never said that they need to be here. What I was saying is that Gear can go back to being CSE legal counsel and I wonder if that was even an option offered to him. He has no business being an AGM really, unless he's some brilliant hockey mind but I have no way of evaluating that.

Wall's position is to offer data and advice based on the data. He heads the analytics department. He doesn't strike me as THE guy making all the decisiosn there. Point is he's basically there holding a computer and crunching the numbers when called upon. Offering information on what analytics say about a player, for example, is different from being actively involved in the decision making. Now if he's giving wrong recommendations then obviously he deserves to be fired. But I don't think he deserves to fired because he was "part of the previous management group" when he's been here for 20+ years, just there to present data, and given more things to do by previous management.

My point is that those guys were in their respective positions for years and are fired because they ended up being given larger roles and a promotion. They basically stepped up when called upon and lost their long-time gigs because of it. Of course there could be job-related things we don't know and they were kept only because previous management wanted to keep them.

I just see it as either:

1) Jonathan Wall is good at his job but Benning wouldn't listen to him
2) Jonathan Wall is bad at his job and is part of the problem

In both cases, Wall doesn't look great. Gilman and Henning were let go because they didn't agree with Benning. I don't see how Wall survives telling Benning all of his decisions are stupid.

Sure, it sucks they lost their jobs, but then you're taking an issue with how unfair it is that there's turnover in NHL organizations when GMs/Presidents are replaced. I don't think it's out of the question that that happens.

Walker wasn’t jobless. And as others have mentioned Aqua might well want to run a leaner front office to save money.

This is possible. But surely the leaner front office can't be *just* Rutherford?

 

[Melvin]

I just see it as either:

1) Jonathan Wall is good at his job but Benning wouldn't listen to him
2) Jonathan Wall is bad at his job and is part of the problem

In both cases, Wall doesn't look great. Gilman and Henning were let go because they didn't agree with Benning. I don't see how Wall survives telling Benning all of his decisions are stupid.

Sure, it sucks they lost their jobs, but then you're taking an issue with how unfair it is that there's turnover in NHL organizations when GMs/Presidents are replaced. I don't think it's out of the question that that happens.



This is possible. But surely the leaner front office can't be *just* Rutherford?

Rutherford, Stan Smyl, Ryan Johnson and the Sedins.

 

[AppleHoneySauce]

Wow. Look at the JR hiring thread on the main board …. It’s pretty much 100% of people think he’s terrible. Crazy.

I dont know if you can trust the main boards opinion. They also liked the oel trade for some weird reason.

 

[Godkolzin]

Weve been talking for 24 hours about how receptive Rutherford will be to analytics and whether or not he is open to modern ideas and progressive thinking. Before he’s finished sitting down he’s fired the head analytics guy who has served under like 6 prior GMs and was promoted into his role by Gillis. That doesn’t concern you?

A lot of wish-casting about how he’s going to do this or he’s going to do that but for now I’m just going based on what has happened so far.

I mean, yeah he's got the experience, but what has analytics done for the team in the last 8 years? especially recently... you gotta think Elmer was at least glancing at analytics before letting Tanev walk, constructing our newly retooled defence, and the multitude of terrible depth signings and trades for veterans.

Clean the slate, bring in experienced, motivated people in a fresh environment. Free of the stench of prolonged failure.

The only criticism I have is they could have changed his title, kept him on to help transition his replacement? Then let him work with Abbotsford or walk if he doesn't fit into the future plans. I don't know because we don't know the details of the review on his body of work under Blenning and how much input analytics had under his tenure.

If this analytics team was considered often, I say good riddance

 

[F A N]

I bet you nobody left even knows how to file a waiver claim with the league.

it’s wild to me Benning gets to pass his excuses up to ownership and down to the people who worked under him.

Right. I'm sure Benning is texting ownership and Rutherford to fire the rest of the guys he worked closely with.

 

[Billy Kvcmu]

this is all I need to support the firings
f*** Imac