Post-Game Talk: Canucks @ Devils | OT loss. No.

[VanillaCoke]

The point is that in saying you never want to see hits like tonight's, you are implicitly advocating for no-contact hockey.

That's also absurd. I'm not going to be dragged into this extremist nonsense.
No contact hockey is clearly not what I'm advocating, if one can't see the difference in its glaringly obvious form I clearly can't persuade or appeal to Said person.

 

[Rotting Corpse*]

That's also absurd. I'm not going to be dragged into this extremist nonsense.
No contact hockey is clearly not what I'm advocating, if one can't see the difference in its glaringly obvious form I clearly can't persuade or appeal to Said person.

Do you understand the word "implicit?"

You said we needed to remove hits to the head by any means necessary. By the nature of the game, that is only possible by removing hitting, or removing the players heads. Since the latter wouldn't work very well, you are therefore implicitly advocating for the former.

If you have a reasonable suggestion for how we can play a sport where 200 pound goliaths are smashing into each other while skating at full speed and 6'9" players are allowed to hit 5'9" players and we can guarantee that no-one ever gets hit in the head, please lay it on the table.

 

[VanillaCoke]

Take all of the contact that happens in an NHL season, what percentage is likely (potentially) concussion or controversy inducing?

I'd guess maybe 5%. Subtract that contact from the NHL, is the NHL now a non contact sport?
Are players safer?
Is the sport now unwatchable?

 

[VanillaCoke]

Do you understand the word "implicit?"

You said we needed to remove hits to the head by any means necessary. By the nature of the game, that is only possible by removing hitting, or removing the players heads. Since the latter wouldn't work very well, you are therefore implicitly advocating for the former.

If you have a reasonable suggestion for how we can play a sport where 200 pound goliaths are smashing into each other while skating at full speed and 6'9" players are allowed to hit 5'9" players and we can guarantee that no-one ever gets hit in the head, please lay it on the table.

The NHL itself is already removing hits to the head. I'm advocating to expand the means they're currently using to include hits like today.

Like I said I don't see anyone, anywhere saying we need more players hitting like Scott Stevens or Matt Cooke.

 

[VanillaCoke]

My position is clearly defined. I need not argue about it incessantly, people are free to all have varying opinions on the matter.

 

[Fat Tony]

Heh. Once, I argued that fighting has its place in hockey. The person I was debating said that the only reason to punch someone was to hurt someone and that the more damage inflicted, the better. Taken it to the (his) logical conclusion, since I was advocating fighting, I would be okay with someone dying on the ice.

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

Alex Burrows needs to be a lifer Canuck. He and the Sedins and Edler all need to be here til they hang em up. Hopefully the same for Tanev, but I have a feeling he won't.

 

[Rotting Corpse*]

My position is clearly defined. I need not argue about it incessantly, people are free to all have varying opinions on the matter.

It isn't that your position is not clearly defined. It's that your position is not reasonable.

You can't just disable hits to the head by opening the menu and flipping the switch. There is a law of diminishing returns. We can't just "keep getting harsher" and moving closer to the edge, at some point you have to draw a line at what's a reasonable expectation of what a player is able to do.

Propose a rule change that would completely remove head-hits to your satisfaction. If you can't do that, you don't actually have a tenable position. You might as well complain that doctors should just cure cancer already. It's already more survivable than it used to be, just get rid of it! What are they waiting for, geez!

 

[VanillaCoke]

Reducing head shots and brain trauma is an unreasonable!?!?

The NHL "disabled" hits to the head in their own rule changes, hitting didn't disappear, expand the parameters is not unreasonable.
I need not invent rules to satisfy your opposition because you say so. I'm perfectly comfortable with my opinions.
Ok mr new account so I can argue nonsense. You like headshots I get it. I don't.

 

[Rotting Corpse*]

It is not an unreasonable desire. But you have not a suggested a reasonable way to accomplish it. See my cancer analogy again. What does "expand the parameters" mean? Expand them to what?

 

[VanillaCoke]

So was hemsky hit a dangerous headshot or a good clean clean NHL hit ?

He hit his shoulder half an instant before the head........

 

[Rotting Corpse*]

So was hemsky hit a dangerous headshot or a good clean clean NHL hit ?

He hit his shoulder half an instant before the head........

Hemsky looked to me like he left his feet prior to making contact. That is actually a good example of a clearly-defined rule that the NHL implemented a long time ago.

You have not yet suggested a rule they could implement that would reduce head shots to your satisfaction.

I will say this for the third time and then I'm done. When you have 200 pound players skating at full speed and expected to smash into each other, it's not reasonable to hold them to a standard whereby contact to the head is never made. Players should try not to make contact, but miscalculations will always occur that lead to accidental hits to the head. Unless you outlaw hitting outright.

 

[VanillaCoke]

Oh so hemsky hit is reckless and dangerous because his right foot left the ice by 0.5 inches, 0.38 seconds before shoulder to shoulder contact and the 0.25 seconds before shoulder to head contact. Had he stayed on the ice a split second longer ppl should cheer for hits like that to continue to happen....?

Nobody is saying headshots will be eliminated overnight forever and always, that the extremism that infiltrated this discussion from the get go.
Concussions are down from a decade ago, no reason why they can't be further reduced.

 

[Rotting Corpse*]

Oh so hemsky hit is reckless and dangerous because his right foot left the ice by 0.5 inches, 0.38 seconds before shoulder to shoulder contact and the 0.25 seconds before shoulder to head contact. Had he stayed on the ice a split second longer ppl should cheer for hits like that to continue to happen....?

Nobody is saying headshots will be eliminated overnight forever and always, that the extremism that infiltrated this discussion from the get go.
Concussions are down from a decade ago, no reason why they can't be further reduced.

Well if his feet left the ice then it was with intent. You don't jump accidentally. That's a bit different from trying to hit the shoulder of a guy who's moving while you're moving and missing by a bit. But to be honest I don't think his hit is a big deal either.

Actually, there is a reason why concussions maybe can't be further reduced. It is called diminishing returns. In the beginning you are introducing rules that disrupt the game by 5% in order to reduce concussions by 30%. But at some point the rules you introduce are going to disrupt the game by 40% and reduce concussions by 0.1%. At some point you have to draw the line.

Unless you come up with something new and revolutionary...like a forcefield around the head that completely protects it from injury.

 

[CanaFan]

Hemsky looked to me like he left his feet prior to making contact. That is actually a good example of a clearly-defined rule that the NHL implemented a long time ago.

You have not yet suggested a rule they could implement that would reduce head shots to your satisfaction.

I will say this for the third time and then I'm done. When you have 200 pound players skating at full speed and expected to smash into each other, it's not reasonable to hold them to a standard whereby contact to the head is never made. Players should try not to make contact, but miscalculations will always occur that lead to accidental hits to the head. Unless you outlaw hitting outright.

True you cannot "stop" hits to the head for the reasons that you've given, but I do believe stricter measures can be taken that would reduce the number of cases further without eliminating hitting altogether. CHL for example applies a "no contact to the head" standard on all hits. Primary point of contact is not the basis of determining a transgression but simply whether the head was hit or not. Now I don't have the numbers for number of head related injuries in jr vs NHL so I can't speak to the efficacy of the standard, but I like the message and tone that it sets regarding player safety as a priority. And when last I checked, body checking was still very much alive and well in that league.

A similar to the blanket approach taken with high sticking years ago. Intentional or not, a high stick is called 100% of the time (*that the referee see's it). That approach puts the onus on the player to be completely responsible for their stick in all situations, even when being tripped or falling down. Now this may seem u fair or too hard too police yet I would say that, anecdotally at least, stick infractions do seem less frequent than I recall in the 80's and 90's (*eye test only). I think something similar could be applied here which would put clear onus on the hitter to ensure the hits they deliver are in situations where they have control of their hits.

Anyway it's probably only a matter of time for the league anyway, as the pending player's lawsuit is likely going to continue to pressure the league to clean up its rule book with regards to fighting and hitting lest it appear negligent in the court of public opinion.

 

[VanillaCoke]

A very reasonable opinion, that I personally agree with.

 

[me2]

powerplay personal is stale needs to change.. 5 mins and still couldnt score. whose in charge? coach gulutzen? or perry pearn the man upstairs. hope virtanen is alright. pretty brave/stupid of him to take on farham.

PP has been good lately after a bad start.

 

[Ryp37]

The argument I saw made was that if there is no crushing hits that also cause major head trauma then It's women's hockey.
Which is absolutely absurd and offensive.

Your arguement I addressed earlier. Players don't hit now like Scott Stevens did, and nothing in the game of hockey changed.
Taking out hits like today's as much as possible wouldn't change anything.
For the last time there are thousands of hits that happen every season that are just fine.
Contact sport and head shots are not synonymous.

If you think "womens rules" is offensive you must be a freshman at Yale

Womens rules is very minimal contact, they still rub each other out

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

The argument I saw made was that if there is no crushing hits that also cause major head trauma then It's women's hockey.
Which is absolutely absurd and offensive.

Your arguement I addressed earlier. Players don't hit now like Scott Stevens did, and nothing in the game of hockey changed.
Taking out hits like today's as much as possible wouldn't change anything.
For the last time there are thousands of hits that happen every season that are just fine.
Contact sport and head shots are not synonymous.

Eh. Stuff happens on the ice, though.

I was playing roller hockey yesterday and one of my guys creamed a guy behind the net a la Raffi Torres. It's a no-contact league. Players'll do whatever they feel they need to do to win. It's not the NHL, but I feel it's fairly representative of their mindset. Just win and deal with the ******** later.

 

[Intangibos]

Basically threw his hands up then went to the box chirping Virtanen for hurting his hand. Pretty pathetic if you ask me.

I've never seen anyone get chirped by someone for hurting their hand on their skull before

 

[Intangibos]

I don't mind the guy chirping Virtanen for the fight (although to be honest, it looks like Farnham was just swinging and missing while Virtanen actually landed a few). Virtanen plays a tough game and chose to fight, doesn't matter that he's a teenager. That being said, chirping him for his hand getting hurt is distasteful. You're trying to win the game and get your fans going or whatever, but you should never be celebrating the injury of another player. Classless stuff.

So yeah, chirping for the fight = no problem
Chirping for the hand = classless

Embarassing tweet from Prust too

 

[Intangibos]

Respond however you want.

Do I think maximum precautions should be taken when someone suffers a concussion? Absolutely. Do I think that blatant dirty play resulting in concussions should be harshly punished? Of course. Do I think we should legislate the contact out of contact sports because of concussion paranoia? Absolutely not.

If you choose to smoke, you deal with he consequences to your body.

If you choose to drink heavily, you deal with the consequences to your body.

If you choose to work a dangerous job - ie a faller for a logging company - you deal with the risks.

And if you choose to play a contact sport professionally for $millions, you deal with the consequences to your body.

My biggest pet peeve is people who plainly think we should move to women's rules but don't have the balls to actually say it. Don't claim to love hitting and then cry whenever someone gets hurt on a clean check.

This. Sometimes people are going to get hurt, but that's the game. We should do all we can to help increase player safety without drastically changing the game. For example adding helmets, making the boards give a little, making headshots a big no no (that will happen anyway but should lead to a suspension) etc. Still, people will get hurt from time to time, that's just the way it is.

Should we put a speed limit in F1 racing so that crashes aren't fatal? Please. Change safety protocols and research how to make players safer without making it a non-contact league.

Caught a big break with the 5 minute major. Clean hit on a small player. Not remotely interference. Same thing as Edler on Hertl.

Exactly. Felt like it was 2 minutes at worst, but would have preferred no penalty. Clean hit that winded McCann, who put himself in a dangerous position and Larsson did well to not hurt him.

Fwiw the Edler hit on Hertl was dirty too

No, Hertl skating into Edler's shoulder wasn't dirty

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

I've never seen anyone get chirped by someone for hurting their hand on their skull before

Reminds me of Scrubs.

"yeah? 1 broken face to 5 broken fingers! I totally won that fight!"

BTW, MS is on point fwiw. If you dont like hitting, play in a stick and puck league.

 

[me2]

Game was not on Miller, he kept it close when they were all over us. Our defence is the biggest problem.
Sbisa would look good right now.

Canucks were what 2w 4l with Sbisa in his last bunch of games. He isn't the answer.

 

[Intangibos]

Canucks were what 2w 4l with Sbisa in his last bunch of games. He isn't the answer.

Sbisa over Bartkowski is a marginal improvement. The question is if Willie will sit Bartkowski or even Weber so Biega can play once Tanev and Sbisa are back.

Edler Tanev
Hamhuis Biega
Hutton Sbisa

I'm okay with this.