Post-Game Talk: Canucks @ Devils | OT loss. No.

[DarrenX]

There's never a guarantee

So in other words, when you wrote:

Contact is a part of the GAME, even fighting is part of the GAME.
Concussions don't need to be part of the game

, you were simply wrong. Thanks for acknowledging it.

Thousands of body checks a year don't make contact with head. Along with board battles, crease battles etc etc.

This is ridiculous reasoning. Yes, thousands of people drive to work every day without accidents. Thousands of planes fly. But there *will* (as a statistical certainty) be crashes, for as long as there are humans at the controls. And likewise, in a fast paced contact sport played by strong, competitive athletes, there *will* be concussions. Period.

Take all of the contact that happens in an NHL season, what percentage is likely (potentially) concussion or controversy inducing?

I'd guess maybe 5%.

"Potentially" concussion inducing? I'd guess 100% of non-trivial contact.

MS is entirely correct. If you don't want concussions then you don't want hitting in hockey, because there is no other way to guarantee that outcome. End of discussion.

 

[DarrenX]

pls delete - duplicated

 

[banme*]

No, Hertl skating into Edler's shoulder wasn't dirty

Lol.



Initial contact was very clearly to the head. I can provide the freeze frames if you want.

 

[Intangibos]

Lol.



Initial contact was very clearly to the head. I can provide the freeze frames if you want.

Lol.

Maybe you can provide yourself with reading my post again. I never said the contact wasn't to the head, I said Hertl literally skated into Edler when Edler was going for the puck.

 

[banme*]

Lol.

Maybe you can provide yourself with reading my post again. I never said the contact wasn't to the head, I said Hertl literally skated into Edler when Edler was going for the puck.

Edler obviously changed his trajectory. Not even a question that he was going for the hit which is why I didn't address it.

 

[Intangibos]

Edler obviously changed his trajectory. Not even a question that he was going for the hit which is why I didn't address it.

He moved to the inside to get position on the puck. It's not Edler's fault that at the last second Hertl leaned forward to tip the puck forward and skated into Edler's shoulder. Hertl didn't even fall down, I think if Edler was going to target someone's head they would be on the ice soon after.

It was a weird play, but it wasn't dirty in any way, like at all.

 

[Fat Tony]

MS is entirely correct. If you don't want concussions then you don't want hitting in hockey, because there is no other way to guarantee that outcome. End of discussion.

That argument is as specious as saying that people want concussions if they want hits because it is inevitable that some concussion will occur.

 

[Intangibos]

That argument is as specious as saying that people want concussions if they want hits because it is inevitable that some concussion will occur.

How many concussions per hit would be acceptable for you? 0.1? 0.01? Put a number on the acceptable rarity of concussions in the NHL. Clearly the number is too high right now, in the minds of some people, so how low should it be? Why that low? Why not lower? Why is a concussion happening on 0.1% of NHL hits acceptable if that was the number you chose? Why not remove hitting altogether to take that number down even further? I mean, we're talking about the safety of these athletes, isn't saving people from concussions worth removing contact from the game altogether?

 

[VanillaCoke]

Nevermind. It doesnt matter.

 

[Diogenes92]

The powerplay is the most glaring problem imo. Its lost them multiple games this season single-handedly. They had one good chance the entire 5 minute major...

After the last couple of games I suddenly have a bad feeling about this season.

 

[Fat Tony]

Clearly the number is too high right now, in the minds of some people, so how low should it be?

Full disclosure: I've played after a head hit where I'm dizzy on the bench. I'd probably do it again.

What I'm saying is that there's a whole spectrum of opinion. Pigeonholing people not holding your own view as being on one extreme or the other is not helpful.

 

[Huggy]

7/45 =moron coach

Split the sedins on the pp and give mccann and hutton spots

 

[Intangibos]

Full disclosure: I've played after a head hit where I'm dizzy on the bench. I'd probably do it again.

What I'm saying is that there's a whole spectrum of opinion. Pigeonholing people not holding your own view as being on one extreme or the other is not helpful.

I'm not saying otherwise, and other opinions are valid, but I also think it's fair to say that it's hard to reduce the number of concussions significantly without changing the game entirely. These athletes grow up knowing the risks associated with hockey and choose to play anyway. It's really sad when a fishing boat is lost and people die, but at the same time they knew the risks of their profession.

The problem with reducing concussions in hockey is first you have to determine how many are acceptable. How much are you willing to change the game for how much improvement in that regard. If we removed hitting from the game entirely, we wouldn't have these concussion issues, but that isn't what people are advocating. That means in their head there is an acceptable number of concussions and an acceptable level of change to the game, I'm curious what those are.

 

[banme*]

He moved to the inside to get position on the puck. It's not Edler's fault that at the last second Hertl leaned forward to tip the puck forward and skated into Edler's shoulder. Hertl didn't even fall down, I think if Edler was going to target someone's head they would be on the ice soon after.

It was a weird play, but it wasn't dirty in any way, like at all.

I don't think Edler meant to get his head because he's not a dirty player.

I think Edler meant to hit him, and hit his head first by accident, resulting in a dirty hit. Honestly I feel this hit is worse than the hit last night on McCann.

Dirty hit =/= dirty player.

 

[Intangibos]

I don't think Edler meant to get his head because he's not a dirty player.

I think Edler meant to hit him, and hit his head first by accident, resulting in a dirty hit. Honestly I feel this hit is worse than the hit last night on McCann.

Dirty hit =/= dirty player.

Dirty hit =/= bad hit.

It was an accident and shouldn't have been a penalty or a suspension. 2 minutes at worst, and that goes for both the Edler-Hertl hit and the Larsson-McCann hit.

Edler meant to get between him and the puck, and as a result Hertl skated into his shoulder. I'd honestly hesitate to even call it a hit, they were both competing for the same space on the ice and Edler got there first.

 

[BB6]

Dirty hit =/= bad hit.

It was an accident and shouldn't have been a penalty or a suspension. 2 minutes at worst, and that goes for both the Edler-Hertl hit and the Larsson-McCann hit.

Edler meant to get between him and the puck, and as a result Hertl skated into his shoulder. I'd honestly hesitate to even call it a hit, they were both competing for the same space on the ice and Edler got there first.

Same, Edler got suspended because Hertl was flavour of the month, its my avatar picture for a reason, it was laughable then and it is now. It was not dirty and Hertl skated right into him, Edler did what he was supposed to do, I haven't been keeping up with this thread so I fail to see why this is being discussed.

and now I see why, last nights hit was worse, Edler braced for impact.

 

[Hit the post]

Dirty hit =/= bad hit.

It was an accident and shouldn't have been a penalty or a suspension. 2 minutes at worst, and that goes for both the Edler-Hertl hit and the Larsson-McCann hit.

Edler meant to get between him and the puck, and as a result Hertl skated into his shoulder. I'd honestly hesitate to even call it a hit, they were both competing for the same space on the ice and Edler got there first.

The funny thing is, Dustin Brown gave Hertl a knee-on-knee (I believe in the same season) that REALLY knocked Hertl out of the lineup. What did that chicken **** Kings player get? Zero games.

 

[Hardyvan123]

Lol.

Maybe you can provide yourself with reading my post again. I never said the contact wasn't to the head, I said Hertl literally skated into Edler when Edler was going for the puck.

Edler clearly was going for the hit, not the puck.

this horse has been beat to death already though.

as for the game it was great to get point but some really bad signs, which is a trend lately in that the PP was poor with a 5 min advantage in the 3rd, we gave up 4 goalposts in that game, 2 after said PP and also a breakaway shorthanded late in the game on the PK as well.

Also the young guys continue to get really poor MPG and Vrbata isn't going to fetch a first rounder at the draft deadline like so many had hoped here.

Hamius probably not either.

 

[banme*]

Edler could have clearly skated straight towards the puck and would not have made any contact with Hertl. He lowers his shoulder and changes his trajectory to make contact with Hertl. The contact that he made was directly to the head. That's a headshot. It doesn't matter whether it was an accident (I'm sure most dirty hits are considering how fast the game is), the result was not a clean hit.

If the mandate is to suspend headshots, that hit was worthy of a suspension. If you want to argue what the mandate for suspendible hits should be, that's a different matter.

 

[tantalum]

Watching the last few games I'm beginning to wonder if they couldn't try Virtanen with the Sedins. His play along the boards has really improved, he gets in on the forecheck and his speed might be an asset to them as they break out through the neutral zone. He's getting behind guys on a regular basis right now and who better to find him than Henrik and Daniel? Seems an interesting experiment to me.

That said, if Vrbata would quit hitting pipes that line would be lighting it up right now so it's a tough decision to break it up.

But it would require a coach that consistently rewards the young guys with icetime when they are having a good game. Not sure they have that in Willie.

 

[Intangibos]

I learned when I was like 10 to take body position. Edler is trying to get between the player and the puck which is a significant part of his job. He braced for impact. He didn't line up Hertl and drive his shoulder into his head, or any other part of his body for that matter. Edler stood between Hertl and the puck and Hertl skated into him.

I also do think that NHL discipline should be reviewed, but I would settle on them getting their own rules down first. Just like Kassian got a sizable suspension for being an idiot with his stick, Hamhuis was injured by an Edmonton player not being careful with his stick and there was no suspension. It's not even a Canuck conspiracy, it's just the NHL being inept at their jobs.

That being said, Hertl skated into Edler so tough ******* for him, not a dirty play. Don't skate head first into players.

 

[racerjoe]

Didn't really want to get into this, but I guess I am just a sucker.

Hertl hit is a case of a player with his head down running into another player. The head is only contacted because Hertl has his head down.

The McCann hit is a bit worse, but I thought it deserved 2 mins as it was a late hit to a player in a vulnerable position. It was a bit high as well, and I think the reason it wasn't worse is because McCann sees it coming (head up you young kids) and pulls out of the hit.

We didn't deserve to win, and were lucky to get a point.

I don't like what Farnwhatever did after the fight. I think sometimes that stuff is fine, but it was barely a fight, and he clearly didn't win it, and as mentioned, Jake hurt his hand on your face.

I also am kinda 50/50 on the Prust thing. Love the sticking up for your teammate, but really over twitter, in a game you are not playing?

Would need to know more on the burrows thing. But seems weird coming from a guy like tootoo.

 

[Zippy316]

I'd have no problem if he did that to a player like Dorsett.

But to a guy who has never fought a man before (coming straight out of junior) to basically celebrate and then chirp him after you won the fight handily I do have a problem with. I feel completely justified in disliking the guy because of the way he treated Virtanen after the fight. Kids a teenager. No need to throw the arms up and talk **** to him after beating him up.

If he was fighting some guy like Horvat, I think it might be a little different. But Virtanen is a big strong physical player and Farnham isn't exactly the biggest guy out there nor is he a heavyweight by any means.

To me, there's a lot worse things Farnham could've said then mocking him over an injury. I don't condone it by any means, but that's not really a big deal. The celebrations is trying to pump the team up, if I recall correctly that was immediately after the Canucks scored the third goal. A guy like Farnham is trying to get the team and the crowd re-energized; he's just doing what he has to to stay in the NHL. Devils have had a couple of momentum-swinging fights this year.

The McCann hit is a bit worse, but I thought it deserved 2 mins as it was a late hit to a player in a vulnerable position. It was a bit high as well, and I think the reason it wasn't worse is because McCann sees it coming (head up you young kids) and pulls out of the hit.

On that hit, I would say it looked really bad with how McCann's head cocked back like it did. If you look at that, it would've seemed like it was shoulder-to-head but Larsson did not look like he targeted the head at all and it looked more shoulder to shoulder then anything. I'll admit I didn't really see any videos of the hit in real time yet so I can't really say anything about the timing, but the hit itself didn't look bad at all, in my opinion.

 

[tantalum]

McCann hit...I think it was a penalty. Not a game misconduct or supplemental discipline hit. If I'm not mistaken the potentia injury to McCann wasn't from the hit being to the head or anything like that. It may have been his stick snapping while pressed against his chest/throat area. Recollection here, but it seemed like he had trouble getting his breath back and was pounding that area a bit when he skated off.

Hard to see for sure what happened with his stick other than is was snapped (between McCann and boards?)

Prust...didn't like the tweet. Pointless like his chirping about refs last year.

Burrows...we'll know all we need to know if the NHL investigates or if it just gets pushed on. If the penalty box officials really heard something they thought was over the top it will get to the league one way or another. If it doesn't go anywhere then it was especially good trash talk. Trash talk that you and I wouldn't use or an area we wouldn't dare to go but that goes for 99% of the population. There isn't that much of the population playing in the NHL....

 

[Ryp37]

Yeah this isn't a penalty no matter how you break it down

https://twitter.com/myregularface/status/663515349225185281

Only looks late to some people because its in slow-mo