Myers brainfarts lately aren't bugging me as much as his shot. He's a big dude, how can you not rip that thing? He steps into perfect shooting situations just to half fan some muffin wide.
Post-Game Talk: Canucks def. Sharks - 6-5 (OT) (Joshua x2, Hoglander, Mikheyev, Kuzmenko, Pettersson)
- Thread starter Mr. Canucklehead
- Start date
Canucks LB
My Favourite, Gone too soon, RIP Luc, We miss you
- Oct 12, 2008
- 76,711
- 29,247
Peen
Rejoicing in a Benning-free world
- Oct 6, 2013
- 30,082
- 25,584
there really isn't a good way out of it
you can make the argument that his game has fallen off so much this season that his replacement would be a league minimum defenseman - and you're right because bear is a clear #5 on a good team but has looked better. burroughs looked better this season, schenn looked better this season, dermott looked better last year at the tail end (please pom). hell, wolanin was better during preseason. then you can talk yourself into justifying the buyout.
but i just keep thinking that they may be best stepping back for a year and then reevaluating the cost to dump him or buy him out one year down the line, ideally two years down the line.
there is not a good solution for this team other than OEL maintaining the play he showed for like 50 games last season where he played like a capable second-pair defenseman. you could have then justified just holding on because he was maybe 2-2.5MM short of the needed value of his contract. he's reverted to looking like shit. it sucks.
i've tried considering what creative options they could look into but there's essentially nothing. best i could come up with was oel + decent roster player for bobrovsky + assets (cuts down one year of term on OEL). then you hold bob for next year and explore moving his final two years (6.5MM salary x 2 and a 10MM cap hit x 2). then spend the next 18 months acquiring assets like all hell so you can justify spending assets to dump the final two years of bobrovsky (two 1sts + would be the cost?). feel like it's hard to dump 3+ years of a deal.
comes down to the question of how you want to handle the next ten years
option a: be creative, willing to take a short term step back to accumulate assets to justify spending assets and nullify those big penalty years in 3/4 + no $2MM hit in years 5-8
option b: take the hit, free yourself of virtually any penalties for the next two years and then deal with the big hit in years 3-4 + the smaller hits in years 5+8.
i still prefer option a because you're not locking yourself into anything immediately that you have to long term plan for. feel like if you just suffer for a little bit, you can then just pay the f***ing draft picks and be done with it and move on. either way it's a competitive disadvantage, either via assets sold off or capspace given up. i have just yet heard the right argument about why option b is better than a in a vacuum. maybe someone can convince me
maybe i'm just overestimating how much 4MM truly does inhibit the ability to put together a good roster. i mean, minnesota has 15MM of cap penalties the next three years and they're OK. obviously not going to win a cup, which is the entire point of the game, but that's a 10MM difference between what @Canucks LB is suggesting with OEL. they've got $15MM of space next summer and their only expirings above $1.2MM are reaves (1.7) and dumba (6). they have boldy and addison coming off rfa deals, among other notables rfa's. genuinely no idea how they fit that all in given the raises all those players will be expecting. maybe they'll just do a two year rebuild - who knows
the underrated part of this talk: aquilini's willingness to dole out $20MM on a buyout next summer. i'm not sure what percentage of the arena fixes, a new practice rink would be on them - but they dumped the hell out of jason dickinson a week after the report that francesco reportedly told them to get out of ferland's money.
you can make the argument that his game has fallen off so much this season that his replacement would be a league minimum defenseman - and you're right because bear is a clear #5 on a good team but has looked better. burroughs looked better this season, schenn looked better this season, dermott looked better last year at the tail end (please pom). hell, wolanin was better during preseason. then you can talk yourself into justifying the buyout.
but i just keep thinking that they may be best stepping back for a year and then reevaluating the cost to dump him or buy him out one year down the line, ideally two years down the line.
there is not a good solution for this team other than OEL maintaining the play he showed for like 50 games last season where he played like a capable second-pair defenseman. you could have then justified just holding on because he was maybe 2-2.5MM short of the needed value of his contract. he's reverted to looking like shit. it sucks.
i've tried considering what creative options they could look into but there's essentially nothing. best i could come up with was oel + decent roster player for bobrovsky + assets (cuts down one year of term on OEL). then you hold bob for next year and explore moving his final two years (6.5MM salary x 2 and a 10MM cap hit x 2). then spend the next 18 months acquiring assets like all hell so you can justify spending assets to dump the final two years of bobrovsky (two 1sts + would be the cost?). feel like it's hard to dump 3+ years of a deal.
comes down to the question of how you want to handle the next ten years
option a: be creative, willing to take a short term step back to accumulate assets to justify spending assets and nullify those big penalty years in 3/4 + no $2MM hit in years 5-8
option b: take the hit, free yourself of virtually any penalties for the next two years and then deal with the big hit in years 3-4 + the smaller hits in years 5+8.
i still prefer option a because you're not locking yourself into anything immediately that you have to long term plan for. feel like if you just suffer for a little bit, you can then just pay the f***ing draft picks and be done with it and move on. either way it's a competitive disadvantage, either via assets sold off or capspace given up. i have just yet heard the right argument about why option b is better than a in a vacuum. maybe someone can convince me
maybe i'm just overestimating how much 4MM truly does inhibit the ability to put together a good roster. i mean, minnesota has 15MM of cap penalties the next three years and they're OK. obviously not going to win a cup, which is the entire point of the game, but that's a 10MM difference between what @Canucks LB is suggesting with OEL. they've got $15MM of space next summer and their only expirings above $1.2MM are reaves (1.7) and dumba (6). they have boldy and addison coming off rfa deals, among other notables rfa's. genuinely no idea how they fit that all in given the raises all those players will be expecting. maybe they'll just do a two year rebuild - who knows
the underrated part of this talk: aquilini's willingness to dole out $20MM on a buyout next summer. i'm not sure what percentage of the arena fixes, a new practice rink would be on them - but they dumped the hell out of jason dickinson a week after the report that francesco reportedly told them to get out of ferland's money.
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stampedingviking
Registered User
PuckMunchkin
Very Nice, Very Evil!
When there is nothing coming from the farm it really does.
Efficient contracts is ½ the game now. Someone might say its the entire game now.
lawrence
Registered User
- May 19, 2012
- 16,014
- 6,835
i said at the start that losing any of these 3 games would be an embaressment. Somehow they made winning all three embarassing. Truly this is a Vancouver Sports team.
- Jan 23, 2010
- 25,107
- 15,229
This is going to seem like a very negative post coming off a win, so I'll just say this - what this team is doing offensively is so impressive. I don't even know what to say about it really, it's just an awesome run with most players chipping in.
I know people are saying Miller had a bad game but I cannot believe how invisible he was last night. He had the puck on a PP in the 3rd and I was kind of like "Oh yeah, Miller" because I hadn't noticed him for a second prior to that. Overall liked the forward group aside from Miller. Thought Garland had some good jump for the first time in weeks. Boeser wasn't good, but at least he was moving his feet.
In terms of goaltending, this game was basically a snapshot of the season. You'd like the goalie to make an extra save or two.. but these chances the team gives up are insane.
I know I said it earlier in the game thread and I didn't really notice it until I watched the Montreal game for a 2nd time and tried to focus on the defensive breakdowns on the goals against.. but it's really amazing watching Luke Schenn compared to the other 5 defensemen. He is basically never in the wrong position or the culprit when a puck goes in the net. Even for the goal he was defending tonight, it was an awful change by the previous defense pair to setup the rush and Schenn played things fine. If this guy was 23 instead of 33 then based on his play we would be talking about a 4-5 million a year player. I know he has his faults but he has been extremely impressive.
Stillman/Myers were up to their usual, I'll leave them alone tonight.
OEL - Have to think last year was maybe a new team/adrenaline situation or something because he is not the same player. Could be injuries, who knows. Last year we had a guy who was generally making smart decisions and was physically able to play in the defensive zone.. he just isn't that guy right now and maybe won't be anymore. The pairing with Bear is a train-wreck in the defensive zone. Both guys seem to know where to be but aren't fast enough or strong enough to do anything. They both also have seemingly have lost the basic ability to clear the puck out.
Bear - Just going to say it again because I feel I've been in the minority on this one since he came here - I'm not sold and he's not someone I bring back on that 2 million+ qualifying offer. I really like his game in the offensive zone. Love his movement and ability to get pucks through. This guy just can't get it done in the defensive zone and I'm tired of watching bad defensive defensemen. I don't think this team goes anywhere until they get defensemen who can defend and they just have too many guys who can't do that. In a world where you don't have two of Hughes/OEL/Myers, I could see keeping Bear as a sheltered 3rd pairing guy. But when you have this many guys locked in who can't defend already.. you just can't do it with another one. You just can't. If Boudreau insists on playing "sides", then I don't think Bear should be in there over Burroughs right now.
Anyways, negative post coming off another win. I can't imagine winning games like this is sustainable, but the NHL has been weird this year so who knows. Fun to watch, that's for sure.
I know people are saying Miller had a bad game but I cannot believe how invisible he was last night. He had the puck on a PP in the 3rd and I was kind of like "Oh yeah, Miller" because I hadn't noticed him for a second prior to that. Overall liked the forward group aside from Miller. Thought Garland had some good jump for the first time in weeks. Boeser wasn't good, but at least he was moving his feet.
In terms of goaltending, this game was basically a snapshot of the season. You'd like the goalie to make an extra save or two.. but these chances the team gives up are insane.
I know I said it earlier in the game thread and I didn't really notice it until I watched the Montreal game for a 2nd time and tried to focus on the defensive breakdowns on the goals against.. but it's really amazing watching Luke Schenn compared to the other 5 defensemen. He is basically never in the wrong position or the culprit when a puck goes in the net. Even for the goal he was defending tonight, it was an awful change by the previous defense pair to setup the rush and Schenn played things fine. If this guy was 23 instead of 33 then based on his play we would be talking about a 4-5 million a year player. I know he has his faults but he has been extremely impressive.
Stillman/Myers were up to their usual, I'll leave them alone tonight.
OEL - Have to think last year was maybe a new team/adrenaline situation or something because he is not the same player. Could be injuries, who knows. Last year we had a guy who was generally making smart decisions and was physically able to play in the defensive zone.. he just isn't that guy right now and maybe won't be anymore. The pairing with Bear is a train-wreck in the defensive zone. Both guys seem to know where to be but aren't fast enough or strong enough to do anything. They both also have seemingly have lost the basic ability to clear the puck out.
Bear - Just going to say it again because I feel I've been in the minority on this one since he came here - I'm not sold and he's not someone I bring back on that 2 million+ qualifying offer. I really like his game in the offensive zone. Love his movement and ability to get pucks through. This guy just can't get it done in the defensive zone and I'm tired of watching bad defensive defensemen. I don't think this team goes anywhere until they get defensemen who can defend and they just have too many guys who can't do that. In a world where you don't have two of Hughes/OEL/Myers, I could see keeping Bear as a sheltered 3rd pairing guy. But when you have this many guys locked in who can't defend already.. you just can't do it with another one. You just can't. If Boudreau insists on playing "sides", then I don't think Bear should be in there over Burroughs right now.
Anyways, negative post coming off another win. I can't imagine winning games like this is sustainable, but the NHL has been weird this year so who knows. Fun to watch, that's for sure.
Just A Bit Outside
Playoffs??!
- Mar 6, 2010
- 16,553
- 15,482
I’ve turned into Scrooge.You used to be more optimistic! Heck, we all realize the shape we are in; but enjoy the little moments.. Otherwise, this board would be unreadable bud. That's 'all I want for xmas'...lol
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theguardianII
Registered User
- Jan 30, 2020
- 3,212
- 1,655
All that has happened is the team is playing to it's level. Arizona, SJ, Montreal, the mushy bottom third of the league and needing OT for that.
The recent wins end up against other defence stretched teams and they still needed OT and have been dominated or out shot for long periods of time.
The reffing will loosen up soon, first third of the season is always loosey goosey.
Truth is I PVR'd it then watched in 30 second jumps or at 2X speed so I did miss a lot but caught the goals and if there is something significant I will watch again. I then look at the game sheets.
.500 pts %. yep somewhere around 24th in the league now.
3 OT wins, yep the same level as the teams they played only those teams were rebuilding or playing 3 times the number of "young" players.
They won vs SJ but they could have lost too.
They are defeating teams in their tier barely.
A win is a win. These just solidify where they are in comparison to the other teams.
Wide open pond hockey.
ChuckNorris4Cup
Registered User
- May 31, 2018
- 3,004
- 2,326
The mushy middle is exactly where this team should be in the standings. The last 3 games where we easily could have lost all 3 makes up for the 0-5-2 start where the team probably could have pulled out a few victories. Weird start to season where the one constant has been poor defense and goaltending.
Johnny Canucker
Registered User
- Jan 4, 2009
- 17,750
- 6,116
I thought we would be behind the Kings, thought they were on the way up. Didn't see the implosion of STL, and thought the Preds would be the same spot as last year and we would be battling them. Did not see Seattle with the turn around.
On another note OEL. At this point you can't buy him out, that cap hit is just too much. No one is trading for him, so I highly doubt that is an option. So that means you have to play him. I think you hope that this is just him being behind from lack of offseason training from his injury at the WC this past season.
DL44
Status quo
12-12-3
Trending better anyways...
5 gm segments:
0-3-2
2-3-0
2-2-1
3-2-0
3-2-0
2-0-0 *in progress
10 gm segments (which I usually look at):
2-6-2
5-4-1
5-2-0 * in progress
7-3-0 in last 10
-------
Darryl Sutter's 7 game series theory... i.e. just win every series:
0-5-2
4-2-1
4-3-0
4-2-0 *Games 7 pending
-------
VGK +11, Sea +8, LAK +4
Wpg +9, Dal +7, Min +3
Col +3
Nas +3
Edm +3
Cgy +3
Van EVEN
StL -2
Trending better anyways...
5 gm segments:
0-3-2
2-3-0
2-2-1
3-2-0
3-2-0
2-0-0 *in progress
10 gm segments (which I usually look at):
2-6-2
5-4-1
5-2-0 * in progress
7-3-0 in last 10
-------
Darryl Sutter's 7 game series theory... i.e. just win every series:
0-5-2
4-2-1
4-3-0
4-2-0 *Games 7 pending
-------
VGK +11, Sea +8, LAK +4
Wpg +9, Dal +7, Min +3
Col +3
Nas +3
Edm +3
Cgy +3
Van EVEN
StL -2
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This is probably the strangest 3 game winning streak I’ve ever seen. Usually the thread would be much more positive even given the quality of competition but unless the goaltending and D improves the play is just not sustainable. The team is not going to keep scoring at even close to this rate.
mriswith
Registered User
- Oct 12, 2011
- 4,202
- 7,437
It's because we look roughly equal to the three teams we just barely beat in overtime, except we're all in and all three of them are deliberately tanking.
All in teams don't sell their soon to be FA's. It sounds like we will definitely trade Schenn and more than likely trade Bo, and if Kuze won't sign we will trade him as well... that doesn't sound like a team that is all in.
PuckMunchkin
Very Nice, Very Evil!
Teams that are not all in dont give retirement contracts to soon-to-be-30 year olds coming off of career years.
mriswith
Registered User
- Oct 12, 2011
- 4,202
- 7,437
Paying a 2nd to dump Dickinson, reupping Miller and Boeser and adding Mikh reflects an all in team.
I would say they are moves that align with the direction the management team set... which wasn't all or nothing. It was try and win in 2 years.
geebaan
7th round busted
- Oct 27, 2012
- 10,273
- 8,872
mriswith
Registered User
- Oct 12, 2011
- 4,202
- 7,437
Dickinsons contract is off the books in 2 years. Paying to dump him is win now.
