Post-Game Talk: Canucks 5 Oilers 2 - My kids are better than your kids!

[NoRaise4Brackett]

Hutton's spin move on the Oilers blueline, was a beauty. Something you see from the likes of Karlsson/PK Subban/Doughty.

 

[CCF23]

I think this team is going to be a lot faster than last year. Horvat seems faster. Baertschi. Virtanen, McCann if they make it. On defense Bartkowski is very mobile.

And Sutter's next gear is insanely fast. Hopefully in the regular season those breakaways get converted into goals, but it's a good start. I can see how he's able to get short-handed goals. Separates himself from the opponent pretty quickly.

Horvat's biggest weakness out of junior was probably his skating. It sure as hell isn't a weakness now. He's downright fast and with that element added to his game the sky seems like the limit.

So excited to see what Horvat can become in the next few years. I genuinely think he has all the tools to be a star in the NHL.

 

[Cogburn]

McCann hit the post on a partial break.

I've been hearing about that one, sounds like it was a heck of a missed chance! Guy's been so solid all preseason.

 

[fancouver]

Horvat's biggest weakness out of junior was probably his skating. It sure as hell isn't a weakness now. He's downright fast and with that element added to his game the sky seems like the limit.

So excited to see what Horvat can become in the next few years. I genuinely think he has all the tools to be a star in the NHL.

He absolutely has all the tools. I can't find one weakness in his game...maybe experience? His defensive game is already like a vet, led our team in faceoff wins, soft hands, good vision on the ice and superb 2-way play. And yes, his speed has gotten better starting in January. In the Calgary playoffs I still remember that end-to-end move.

 

[VanillaCoke]

I've been hearing about that one, sounds like it was a heck of a missed chance! Guy's been so solid all preseason.

Just Caught talbots loose jersey, otherwise it was top shelf

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

I don't think there's any harm in giving McCann 9 games, in fact, I'm all for it.

What I think is nonsense is acting like Jared McCann is above playing another year in the CHL because of a good camp and a few good preseason games. There have been, are, and will continue to be far better player than McCann that go back to Junior/play in the World Jr's after a good camp. If it happens with McCann it's not the end of the world, that's all I'm trying to say.

My point is simply you shouldn't cut down a prospect when he's building something. IMO, you give McCann 9 NHL games, and if he doesn't build on that, you send him down. Sorry for the mix-up. It's been a really long and stressful week.

Horvat's biggest weakness out of junior was probably his skating. It sure as hell isn't a weakness now. He's downright fast and with that element added to his game the sky seems like the limit.

So excited to see what Horvat can become in the next few years. I genuinely think he has all the tools to be a star in the NHL.

Though I have to say most prospects often get knocked on their skating and later on it ends up not being an issue really.

 

[CCF23]

He absolutely has all the tools. I can't find one weakness in his game...maybe experience? His defensive game is already like a vet, led our team in faceoff wins, soft hands, good vision on the ice and superb 2-way play. And yes, his speed has gotten better starting in January. In the Calgary playoffs I still remember that end-to-end move.

I hated the Schneider trade at the time (and still do in principle) but oh man does Bo take the sting off. They absolutely had to nail that pick and it seems like they did.

 

[me2]

I thought that Kenins didn't have to clear waivers even though he's on a one-way deal.

AFAIK you are right. No waivers. IMHO part of the reason he wanted a 1-way deal at a reduced rate from his QO, team gets to stash an NHL in the minors while it fiddles with the line up and he still gets NHL pay.

 

[CCF23]

My point is simply you shouldn't cut down a prospect when he's building something. IMO, you give McCann 9 NHL games, and if he doesn't build on that, you send him down. Sorry for the mix-up. It's been a really long and stressful week.

We're pretty much on the same page, then. I'd love to see McCann get 9 as well. Whether he does or not remains to be seen, but yeah, I agree, he deserves a longer look.

 

[Edo]

It would do nothing for his development? Why don't we tell that to a team like the Red Wings who regularly keep their players down longer than most would think they should. They seem to turn out OK.

Virtanen is a different case because his game is better suited to being able to slot all up and down the lineup.

I know McCann has played fantastically and I get it, I want to see the shiny new toy too instead of the little ball of underwhelming that is Vey, but some of the hyperbole being thrown around is extreme.

What are some examples of these guys that turned out okay for the Red Wings? Their system was once the blue print. It's been pretty mediocre for a while now. One could even argue that Vancouver has done a better job with the prospects.

 

[TheWanderer]

Please show me the situation where this happens.

Sedin - Sedin - Burrows
(Higgins) - Sutter - Vrbata
Baetschi - Horvat - Hansen
Prust - Vey - Dosett
Cracknell (a stretch, perhaps. but only remains if Virtanen doesn't stick)


Edler - Tanev
Hamhuis - Weber
Bartkowski - Sbisa
Corrado

Miller
Markstrom


So Virtanen gets his 9 games and MAYBE sticks when Higgins returns. McCann goes back to junior. Corrado, Baerts and Vey are project players on the roster because Benning is scared to lose fringe NHLers to waivers, and wont cut losses on errors like Dorsett, Prust, Sbisa, and (again) Vey.



I'm happy with having one forechecking facepuncher (Dorsett or Prust) in the line-up (I GUESS), but not both.
I'm happy with one project forward (Baerts / Vey) on the roster (NOT VEY), but not both.

I'm happy with two #6 - caliber D-men (Weber, Bartkowski, Sbisa, Corrado) on the roster, not a whole plethora, and certainly not more than two dressed ona night unless injuries begin to creep up.
I'm happy with one project defender (Corrado, Sbisa) on the roster (Corrado is cheaper), not both.


So looking that the line-up without considering the youth and this pre-season : huge holes.


But lo-and-behold, we half a solid group of prospects that have all made a case where they actually look comfortable and better than established NHLers. Meanwhile, our GM has been spewing what appears to be filth and lies about letting youth take vet spots if they deserve it.

 

[me2]

I hated the Schneider trade at the time (and still do in principle) but oh man does Bo take the sting off. They absolutely had to nail that pick and it seems like they did.

Schneider is 30 this year! Time flies.

With hindsight it was a great move in terms of rebuilding for the future,, especially given we had Lack. Schneider would likely have helped us win for a few years at a time we needed to be rebuilding (just like he is doing to NJ's draft).By the time the team is fully rebuilt Schneider will be in his mid-30s.

 

[CCF23]

Kenins has shown nothing of the player we saw when he came up last year. It's disappointing, but he's fallen behind so many others for me at this point that he wouldn't even be one of my first couple call ups from the players likely to be in Utica.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Good grief with the yowling about young players potentially getting cut.

Other than perhaps Gaunce, none of these guys are at a point in their junior/minor league careers where they can be considered rotting on the vine. In some cases (McCann most particularly) there's a question of physical readiness for an NHL season. Both he and Virtanen are still extremely young and not even AHL eligible.

It's borderline ridiculous to expect the team to charge ahead with a roster half full of teenagers, regardless of how exciting that might seem. Yes, they are outplaying veterans in the pre-season...whoopedy-doo. It's almost as if veterans don't take the pre-season seriously, and the kids are hungry to prove what they can do.

Anyone but the most optimistic fan has to consider the upcoming year a lot season. In an ideal world, we'll be circling the drain come spring and the moving out of veterans for young assets and draft picks can begin in earnest. That the team is not poised to make radical transitions to youth at the beginning of the season when it's still carrying a roster laden with expensive, aging veterans is hardly a surprise nor a cause for alarm.

The order in which I expect/hope the youth to make the team:

1. Baertschi. I believe he'd need to be exposed to waivers to send down. Would be atrocious asset management.

2. Hutton. Our defense is full of question marks, he's looked really damn good, and at 22 he's not a blushing ingenue either. Looks a damn sight better than Corrado.

3. Virtanen. He needs to start thinking/playing the game differently, which he's most likely to learn in the AHL/NHL, and he's only eligible for the latter. I worry about bad habits forming in junior. Seems like a monumental coaching project, might as well get started early.

4. Gaunce. Has the frame to play NHL hockey. Could toil on the fourth line and add some heaviness to the lineup. He's getting to the point where in a year or two it's either graduate or become an AHL lifer.

5. McCann. Love the shot, love the smarts, does not look physically ready to play in the NHL. Could use a year to get older/stronger.

 

[fancouver]

My point is simply you shouldn't cut down a prospect when he's building something. IMO, you give McCann 9 NHL games, and if he doesn't build on that, you send him down. Sorry for the mix-up. It's been a really long and stressful week.

I think McCann deserves his 9 games minimum. In fact this year, I feel like we have 2 Horvats coming into camp: McCann and Virtanen. They certainly had better pre-seasons than Horvat did last year. Sometimes the prospects learn better at the NHL. The 9 game minimum certainly won't hurt them.

I hated the Schneider trade at the time (and still do in principle) but oh man does Bo take the sting off. They absolutely had to nail that pick and it seems like they did.

Agreed, I didn't like the value of the Schneider trade compared to Varlamov as mentioned before. But Horvat (the player) is great at 9th overall.

 

[Cogburn]

Just Caught talbots loose jersey, otherwise it was top shelf

Bah! Bad luck, no more then that. Well Sunday I'm sure he'll return to the scoresheet then.

 

[CCF23]

What are some examples of these guys that turned out okay for the Red Wings? Their system was once the blue print. It's been pretty mediocre for a while now. One could even argue that Vancouver has done a better job with the prospects.

Tatar, Nyquist, and Sheahan recently.

 

[PancakeHero]

We don't know which of Lack or Markstrom will be the better goalie in the long run. Bet on both goalies by keeping both you are guaranteed to be picking the winner. Asset management.

So they both succeed and you get two guys at $3.5m, which is hardly a problem if it came to that. 2 goalies for $7m isn't a problem is they are both good and tested. Asset management.

If the crease gets crowded or Demko needs a backup role then trade one for a 1st because their values would be much higher. 1st > 3rd. Asset management.

benning's ego/pride got the way, he screwed up.

That is one narrative.

 

[TheWanderer]

You realize in preseason the kids play a million times harder than the vets (excluding guys like Vey who need to be playing as if their ass is on the line) because they're playing for jobs, right?

If you cut vets all over the league who have been outplayed by kids in the preseason you could probably build a cup winner from the cuts. If you're expecting established, veteran players to bust their ass in the preseason you're not going to get it.

Credibility, meet toilet. Finger, meet lever.

 

[NuxFan09]

What are some examples of these guys that turned out okay for the Red Wings? Their system was once the blue print. It's been pretty mediocre for a while now. One could even argue that Vancouver has done a better job with the prospects.

What??? Detroit has a disgusting amount of talent in their system. Just as Datsyuk and Zetterberg took over for Yzerman and Fedorov, it seems Nyquist and Tatar are going to take over for Datsyuk and Zetterberg. Then you have the likes of Sheahan and Jurco, Pulkkinen, Mantha, Athanasiou, Larkin. Their farm team also won the Calder Cup a couple years ago!

 

[TheWanderer]

My point is simply you shouldn't cut down a prospect when he's building something. IMO, you give McCann 9 NHL games, and if he doesn't build on that, you send him down. Sorry for the mix-up. It's been a really long and stressful week.



Though I have to say most prospects often get knocked on their skating and later on it ends up not being an issue really.

Whining about skating is the new fad with judging prospects. As if players have never improved on their skating as their bodies mature, or something.

 

[CherryToke]

Kenins has shown nothing of the player we saw when he came up last year. It's disappointing, but he's fallen behind so many others for me at this point that he wouldn't even be one of my first couple call ups from the players likely to be in Utica.

Horvat made him look good.

 

[CCF23]

Good grief with the yowling about young players potentially getting cut.

Other than perhaps Gaunce, none of these guys are at a point in their junior/minor league careers where they can be considered rotting on the vine. In some cases (McCann most particularly) there's a question of physical readiness for an NHL season. Both he and Virtanen are still extremely young and not even AHL eligible.

It's borderline ridiculous to expect the team to charge ahead with a roster half full of teenagers, regardless of how exciting that might seem. Yes, they are outplaying veterans in the pre-season...whoopedy-doo. It's almost as if veterans don't take the pre-season seriously, and the kids are hungry to prove what they can do.

Anyone but the most optimistic fan has to consider the upcoming year a lot season. In an ideal world, we'll be circling the drain come spring and the moving out of veterans for young assets and draft picks can begin in earnest. That the team is not poised to make radical transitions to youth at the beginning of the season when it's still carrying a roster laden with expensive, aging veterans is hardly a surprise nor a cause for alarm.

The order in which I expect/hope the youth to make the team:

1. Baertschi. I believe he'd need to be exposed to waivers to send down. Would be atrocious asset management.

2. Hutton. Our defense is full of question marks, he's looked really damn good, and at 22 he's not a blushing ingenue either. Looks a damn sight better than Corrado.

3. Virtanen. He needs to start thinking/playing the game differently, which he's most likely to learn in the AHL/NHL, and he's only eligible for the latter. I worry about bad habits forming in junior. Seems like a monumental coaching project, might as well get started early.

4. Gaunce. Has the frame to play NHL hockey. Could toil on the fourth line and add some heaviness to the lineup. He's getting to the point where in a year or two it's either graduate or become an AHL lifer.

5. McCann. Love the shot, love the smarts, does not look physically ready to play in the NHL. Could use a year to get older/stronger.

This is pretty much exactly my point. Thank you.

 

[VanillaCoke]

Bah! Bad luck, no more then that. Well Sunday I'm sure he'll return to the scoresheet then.

The replay from behind the net showed it clearly

 

[Sharpshooter]

Felt like I should redeem myself from the last thread.

Well done on the redemption.