Post-Game Talk: Canucks 5 Oilers 2 - My kids are better than your kids!

[Love]

Either way people are going to be upset with kids getting cut.

It's not like Gaunce, Kenins, McCann, Virtanen, and Hutton are ALL going to make the team, even if they appear to be ready.

 

[Cogburn]

I was at work, but I managed to get some of the first period in. Both goals against presented...opportunities defensively...but that first line of Baertschi-Horvat-Virtanen...were they in on all five goals?

Baertschi - 4 assists, one primary and three secondary
Horvat - 2 goals, 1 primary assist
Virtanen - 1 goal, 2 primary assists
Weber - 1 goal, 1 primary assist
Hutton - 1 goal

How'd the rest of the team do offensively? Obviously no one else lit the lamp, but were there opportunities?

 

[Love]

Rofl. If McCann's cut because of the mentorpede blocking him...

Someone will get ****-blocked by the mentorede, we just don't know who yet.

 

[Hyzer]

Either way people are going to be upset with kids getting cut.

It's not like Gaunce, Kenins, McCann, Virtanen, and Hutton are ALL going to make the team, even if they appear to be ready.

you make room then. pretty simple. why am i gonna reward vets who play uninspired when theres talented kids willing to give their 100% every single night to win hockey games, who are clearly better at winning hockey games.


this isnt a ****ing country club. i wanna ice the best team. if that means lots of kids, then you trade all the deadweight.


or you could waive sbisa and vey because they suck.

 

[embee]

I was at work, but I managed to get some of the first period in. Both goals against presented...opportunities defensively...but that first line of Baertschi-Horvat-Virtanen...were they in on all five goals?

Baertschi - 4 assists, one primary and three secondary
Horvat - 2 goals, 1 primary assist
Virtanen - 1 goal, 2 primary assists
Weber - 1 goal, 1 primary assist
Hutton - 1 goal

How'd the rest of the team do offensively? Obviously no one else lit the lamp, but were there opportunities?

McCann hit the post and is getting sent down because of it.

 

[BeardyCanuck03]

I have my fingers crossed it's Virtanen instead of McCann. Virt could actually use it, and McCann has simply outplayed him. Or we can just waive Vey and Prust (admit the mistakes) and let them both play.

With Higgins injured the Canucks could potentially not waive Vey or Prust, and keep McCann and Virtanen up for a few games.

Sedin, Sedin, Vrbata, Horvat, Baertschi, Sutter, Burrows, Hansen, Dorsett, PRUST, VIRTANEN, MCCANN, VEY = 13 FWDS

Edler, Tanev, Hamhuis, Weber, HUTTON, Bartkowski, Sbisa, Corrado = 8 DEF

Miller, Markstrom = 2 G

23 players. #MATH

 

[Hyack57]

Oh barf. Just watched the "highlight" pack as done by TSN. Mcdavid this McDavid that. Hall scores. Now tied at 2-2. McDavid blah blah. Canucks take lead. Virtanen hit by puck. McDavid another chance. McDavid and the oilers lose 5-2. Here's Taylor Hall on the loss.

Oh by the way the Canucks kids of Horvat, Virtanen, and Baertschi looked very good despite playing a 1234 line rotation again.

If this is what the next year holds for high lights and post game involving the Oilers count me out for those games. 37 other skaters on the ice to talk about. Excluding mcChrist and the two back up goalies.

 

[me2]

I'll have to slightly disagree with this.

Management must have felt VERY confident in

1) Markstrom's ability to take over the crease within two years
2) Markstrom ultimately becoming a better goalie than Eddie Lack.

Time will tell obviously, but I am of the opinion that the above two points will hold true.

The problem in keeping Lack is that you'd have to sign him for 3+ years - probably around 3.5-4 million....if we're being optimistic (my guess is that Lack would have wanted at least 4-5 years). With Miller, at least his contract expires in two seasons.

And I do think that having some kind of pedigree at a high level is a factor. Miller played in the 2010 Olympic finals and that experience is something you can't ignore. Whether we like it or not, Miller did have a brief stretch there where he was an elite goalie. That experience helps if the Canucks manage to make the playoffs (and don't use last season as an example as Miller entered Game 5 still injured and rusty after a long layoff).

I think Benning made the right move in keeping Miller and parting ways with Eddie Lack. Lack would have wanted term, and given management's apparent confidence in Markstrom, signing Lack to a long term deal wouldn't have made sense.

We don't know which of Lack or Markstrom will be the better goalie in the long run. Bet on both goalies by keeping both you are guaranteed to be picking the winner. Asset management.

So they both succeed and you get two guys at $3.5m, which is hardly a problem if it came to that. 2 goalies for $7m isn't a problem is they are both good and tested. Asset management.

If the crease gets crowded or Demko needs a backup role then trade one for a 1st because their values would be much higher. 1st > 3rd. Asset management.

benning's ego/pride got the way, he screwed up.

 

[Love]

I was at work, but I managed to get some of the first period in. Both goals against presented...opportunities defensively...but that first line of Baertschi-Horvat-Virtanen...were they in on all five goals?

Baertschi - 4 assists, one primary and three secondary
Horvat - 2 goals, 1 primary assist
Virtanen - 1 goal, 2 primary assists
Weber - 1 goal, 1 primary assist
Hutton - 1 goal

How'd the rest of the team do offensively? Obviously no one else lit the lamp, but were there opportunities?

Sutter had a breakaway, Talbot made a nice glove save. I though Sutter was OK overall.

McCann had a partial break and rang it off the crossbar. Amazing release on this kid.

Prust and Dorsett didn't do much.

Hansen and Burrows were fine IMO.

Sbisa was good, Hamhuis was good, Bartkowski was good, TBH I liked our defence as a whole. Bega too, he skates a lot better than I remember.

 

[TheWanderer]

Either way people are going to be upset with kids getting cut.

It's not like Gaunce, Kenins, McCann, Virtanen, and Hutton are ALL going to make the team, even if they appear to be ready.

okay, but there is still a pretty legitimate chance that ALL of those players could get cut, save for one of McCann/Virtanen - and only because Higgins got injured.

And people are miffed because it is the result of silly acquisitions or retaining of guys like Dorsett/Prust, Vey, Sbisa...

There's a legitimate beef is only one of those young players makes the team after Benning says youth can push out the vets they outplay.

Virtanen and Kenins are both better then Prust and Dorsett, McCann is better than Vey, Hutton is better than Sbisa.


There's not much more to say than look at teams around the league, and how much youth they integrate. There's a reason why guys like Dorsett and Prust keep falling in our lap: they are replaced by youth on other teams. Their contracts should be league minimum, and they should be 13th forwards.


And now there's Sutter, too.

 

[me2]

With Higgins injured the Canucks could potentially not waive Vey or Prust, and keep McCann and Virtanen up for a few games.

Sedin, Sedin, Vrbata, Horvat, Baertschi, Sutter, Burrows, Hansen, Dorsett, PRUST, VIRTANEN, MCCANN, VEY = 13 FWDS

Edler, Tanev, Hamhuis, Weber, HUTTON, Bartkowski, Sbisa, Corrado = 8 DEF

Miller, Markstrom = 2 G

23 players. #MATH

that is what i expect to happen (Kenins is sent down to make room). I think it gives the kids a nice look to see who can repeat their preseason in real games. One or more are bound to have a rough few games and that will be all the excuse needed to send them down.

 

[orcatown]

Man, what a difference a day or a game can make. Game has to shift tectonically any view on any final lineup. Hard to know if the Oilers mailed it in but that looked like domination.

Liked

Horvat - when Henrik is open to moving the C if goes directly to this player. Guy's a horse and is only getting better. Great combination of strength, skill and speed. Really stood out in this game.

Virtanen - well he is on the team. Finally found a home with Horvat. They may have their ups and downs but this is 2/3s of real good top line down the road. Love the touch Virtanen put on the pass on the 5th goal. Edmonton has good ice and players with the speed of Virtanen can very much thrive in that environment. Virtanen potential is thru the roof - just has to learn the pro game.

Baertschi - looked like the player in Portland. Showed the vision and skill level that made him elite at that level. Question becomes can he maintain this level against bigger teams. First time I have seen him use his body effectively to shield the puck and create plays. Still like him to show a little quicker stick around the goal. However, this game was a huge step forward.

Biega - I have been pushing for this player for two years and hope the Canucks see what this player has. He was best player in Utica and the best leader. Watched him cover his whole back end when he had to cover up for stiffs like Negrin. To me, he was the best defenseman we had in this game. Just great wheels and used them to control the play when he was out. I thought he was a step ahead of the play all game. Closes so fast on players that he doesn't give them time to do anything with the puck. If he is waived he will snatched up and you can only pray that Benning is clued in enough to see what Biega brings.

Bartkowski - still have mis-givings about his down low play in his own end but he was very good with the puck and again showed good range in his play. I think he is a step down from Biega (b/c Biega is better around his net) but he played well in this game. Defense, in general, was good.

Sbisa - there will probably be criticism of Sbisa (just b/c it's Sbisa) in this game but in this case it is IMO unwarranted. His puck movement was excellent and he handles the Oiler speed very well. Also took the body well around the net. I saw no glaring errors and lots to be encouraged about. Hopefully people give him is due when he plays well and don't let some agenda guide their views. Sbisa plays like this and he will not hurt the team.

Dorsett - doggedly on the puck and forced lots of turnovers. Canuck forecheck in this game (maybe aided by some horrible defensive work by the Oilers - especially there highly predictable pass up the middle) was outstanding and led by people like Dorsett. 4th line was effective.

Burrows -looks like the old Burrows. Broke up plays all game and made some great passes. Outside of the Horvat line, I thought he was our best forward.

Hutton - another strong effort. Keep seeing new things in his game. Made a number of quick moves in traffic to get out of dangerous.
Stick handling seems another asset. You wonder if somethings will catch up with him in the regular season but right now he continues to look like a monumental find.

Did Not like

Really there was no one that played that bad. However, Vey still weak in his own (especially early in the game) and still producing nothing offensively. Seemed to ride the momentum the team had in this game and wasn't hurting the team on most shifts but not doing much positive either. Looked slow in transition to defense and struggled with his first step when trying to get back.

Also was McCann's weakest game. Got stripped too much at his own blue line and moved to the outside too easily. Game that made you think it is not a bad idea giving McCann another year of Junior. Again got off a great shot but needs to get a little stronger in the play and quicker moving the puck. Needs to gain a step or two. Becomes an outstanding prospect if he does.

Others

Sutter - this game gave you hope to have some belief. He is a good skater and showed pro level awareness. Had some very effective shifts. Looks like Malhotra but you have to hope he is more than this. Might be that he does increase team speed.

Markstrom - made some excellent saves but needs to cover up the rebounds better. Might want the Yakupov goal back but that was a hell of a shot.

Kenins - workman like effort but I don't know if that gets him on the team.

Other Points

Seems now obvious that Virtanen is not a good match up with the Sedins and the way they slow the play. Takes away his best asset - speed. Much better when he can play with players that also have speed. Was a relevation playing with Horvat in this game.

Play of Virtanen in this game probably means Gaunce is gone to Utica. Probably better option the putting him in the PB.

Canucks have a bit of a dilemma in deciding to go with 14 forwards or 8 defensemen. You probably want to keep both Biega and Hutton. That probably means Vey is out (as he should be) and McCann goes back to Junior. (moving Kenins might be another option - in my opinion the wrong one) If you go with 7 d men might mean that Hutton (who can avoid waivers) gets moved so other defensive assets can be retained. Highly unfair option given Hutton's play but it might be better for Hutton in the long run.


Line up (ATM)

Virtanen Horvat Baertschi
Sedin Sedin Vrabata
Hansen Sutter Burrows
Prust Cracknell Dorsett

Kenins

Tanev Edler
Hanhuis Weber/Bart
Biega Sbisa/Hutton

 

[BobbyJazzLegs]

daaaaayyyuuummmmm

so jacked i missed it


happy barge got on the scoresheet

 

[Love]

you make room then. pretty simple. why am i gonna reward vets who play uninspired when theres talented kids willing to give their 100% every single night to win hockey games, who are clearly better at winning hockey games.


this isnt a ****ing country club. i wanna ice the best team. if that means lots of kids, then you trade all the deadweight.

Umm actually it is a country club, that was kind of the whole point of my post.


As for the bolded in the first paragraph: Do you really think Jim Benning will make room for all those guys? C'mon, there's no chance.

What should happen and what will happen are two utterly opposite things.

 

[BeardyCanuck03]

okay, but there is still a pretty legitimate chance that ALL of those players could get cut, save for one of McCann/Virtanen - and only because Higgins got injured.

Please show me the situation where this happens.

 

[CCF23]

So even giving him 9 games is too much? Jeez, that's awfully conservative of you. I don't really any harm in giving him at least that. Ferraro is on point, but virtually none doesn't mean none. Plus, we are the Canucks. Our team name might as well be the Vancouver Murphy's Law.

Not really concerned with him getting 4th line minutes, since this concept has no meaning to WD at all who runs his lines consistently. As for the goons, you don't need them both in games in ****ing October. A few good games? Don't even tell me you want to keep Virtanen now. If you do, I might call what you say as nonsense, him having put one solid game together the whole preseason. Actually, name a player outside of McCann, Horvat, or Hutton who have had TWO good games this preseason. I bet you'll struggle.

Nonsense? They say I have a high horse. What we have here is an argument where somewhere in the middle is a logic consensus. But you have fun slinging mud then. Don't hurt yourself.

I don't think there's any harm in giving McCann 9 games, in fact, I'm all for it.

What I think is nonsense is acting like Jared McCann is above playing another year in the CHL because of a good camp and a few good preseason games. There have been, are, and will continue to be far better player than McCann that go back to Junior/play in the World Jr's after a good camp. If it happens with McCann it's not the end of the world, that's all I'm trying to say.

 

[Hyzer]

Umm actually it is a country club, that was kind of the whole point of my post.


As for the bolded in the first paragraph: Do you really think Jim Benning will make room for all those guys? C'mon, there's no chance.

What should happen and what will happen are two utterly opposite things.

i know JB won't make room. i am saying that you should make the room if you are competent at being a GM.



he needs more scrums/60 out of his players.

mccann is not good at scrums. confirmed to be sent down.

 

[fancouver]

Man, what a difference a day or a game can make. Game has to shift tectonically any view on any final lineup. Hard to know if the Oilers mailed it in but that looked like domination.

Liked

Horvat - when Henrik is open to moving the C if goes directly to this player. Guy's a horse and is only getting better. Great combination of strength, skill and speed. Really stood out in this game.

Virtanen - well he is on the team. Finally found a home with Horvat. They may have their ups and downs but this is 2/3s of real good top line down the road. Love the touch Virtanen put on the pass on the 5th goal. Edmonton has good ice and players with the speed of Virtanen can very much thrive in that environment. Virtanen potential is thru the roof - just has to learn the pro game.

Baertschi - looked like the player in Portland. Showed the vision and skill level that made him elite at that level. Question becomes can he maintain this level against bigger teams. First time I have seen him use his body effectively to shield the puck and create plays. Still like him to show a little quicker stick around the goal. However, this game was a huge step forward.

Biega - I have been pushing for this player for two years and hope the Canucks see what this player has. He was best player in Utica and the best leader. Watched him cover his whole back end when he had to cover up for stiffs like Negrin. To me, he was the best defenseman we had in this game. Just great wheels and used them to control the play when he was out. I thought he was a step ahead of the play all game. Closes so fast on players that he doesn't give them time to do anything with the puck. If he is waived he will snatched up and you can only pray that Benning is clued in enough to see what Biega brings.

Bartkowski - still have mis-givings about his down low play in his own end but he was very good with the puck and again showed good range in his play. I think he is a step down from Biega (b/c Biega is better around his net) but he played well in this game. Defense, in general, was good.

Sbisa - there will probably be criticism of Sbisa (just b/c it's Sbisa) in this game but in this case it is IMO unwarranted. His puck movement was excellent and he handles the Oiler speed very well. Also took the body well around the net. I saw no glaring errors and lots to be encouraged about. Hopefully people give him is due when he plays well and don't let some agenda guide their views. Sbisa plays like this and he will not hurt the team.

Dorsett - doggedly on the puck and forced lots of turnovers. Canuck forecheck in this game (maybe aided by some horrible defensive work by the Oilers - especially there highly predictable pass up the middle) was outstanding and led by people like Dorsett. 4th line was effective.

Burrows -looks like the old Burrows. Broke up plays all game and made some great passes. Outside of the Horvat line, I thought he was our best forward.

Hutton - another strong effort. Keep seeing new things in his game. Made a number of quick moves in traffic to get out of dangerous.
Stick handling seems another asset. You wonder if somethings will catch up with him in the regular season but right now he continues to look like a monumental find.

Did Not like

Really there was no one that played that bad. However, Vey still weak in his own (especially early in the game) and still producing nothing offensively. Seemed to ride the momentum the team had in this game and wasn't hurting the team on most shifts but not doing much positive either. Looked slow in transition to defense and struggled with his first step when trying to get back.

Also was McCann's weakest game. Got stripped too much at his own blue line and moved to the outside too easily. Game that made you think it is not a bad idea giving McCann another year of Junior. Again got off a great shot but needs to get a little stronger in the play and quicker moving the puck. Needs to gain a step or two. Becomes an outstanding prospect if he does.

Others

Sutter - this game gave you hope to have some belief. He is a good skater and showed pro level awareness. Had some very effective shifts. Looks like Malhotra but you have to hope he is more than this. Might be that he does increase team speed.

Markstrom - made some excellent saves but needs to cover up the rebounds better. Might want the Yakupov goal back but that was a hell of a shot.

Kenins - workman like effort but I don't know if that gets him on the team.

Other Points

Seems now obvious that Virtanen is not a good match up with the Sedins and the way they slow the play. Takes away his best asset - speed. Much better when he can play with players that also have speed. Was a relevation playing with Horvat in this game.

Play of Virtanen in this game probably means Gaunce is gone to Utica. Probably better option the putting him in the PB.

Canucks have a bit of a dilemma in deciding to go with 14 forwards or 8 defensemen. You probably want to keep both Biega and Hutton. That probably means Vey is out (as he should be) and McCann goes back to Junior. (moving Kenins might be another option - in my opinion the wrong one) If you go with 7 d men might mean that Hutton (who can avoid waivers) gets moved so other defensive assets can be retained. Highly unfair option given Hutton's play but it might be better for Hutton in the long run.


Line up (ATM)

Virtanen Horvat Baertschi
Sedin Sedin Vrabata
Hansen Sutter Burrows
Prust Cracknell Dorsett

Kenins

Tanev Edler
Hanhuis Weber/Bart
Biega Sbisa/Hutton

Well said.

This Horvat and Virtanen combo should have been tried earlier. The plays were fantastic. Baertschi makes the line more finesse, but they don't lose any grit with Virtanen. Horvat is a stud defensively and all of them have blazing speed.

I am excited even if it's just one game.

 

[Cogburn]

McCann hit the post and is getting sent down because of it.

He'd better not, he's been the only one scoring!

Sutter had a breakaway, Talbot made a nice glove save. I though Sutter was OK overall.

McCann had a partial break and rang it off the crossbar. Amazing release on this kid.

Prust and Dorsett didn't do much.

Hansen and Burrows were fine IMO.

Sbisa was good, Hamhuis was good, Bartkowski was good, TBH I liked our defence as a whole. Bega too, he skates a lot better than I remember.

Sutter, Prust and Dorsett I'm expecting very little from offensively, but I'm glad Sutter managed to muster a chance.

As stated above, McCann seems to be a beast on the opposing side of the puck, and a close cross bar won't change my opinion there. I just pray our colleague and fellow fan is wrong with his assessment that it means a cut.

I'm glad you didn't have a negative view of the non-scoring defenders. That gives my jaded self hope in it's return to form. Hamhuis I'd expect to be good as we go along, but hearing Biega, Sbisa and Barty all contributed more then they hurt us makes me cautiously optimistic, even if it was just a concious effort to shut the league up about McDavid.

Thanks for the feed back everyone!

 

[Shareefruck]

I thought that Kenins didn't have to clear waivers even though he's on a one-way deal.

 

[BobbyJazzLegs]

beating the oilers just makes things better

 

[Tv9924]

I was at work, but I managed to get some of the first period in. Both goals against presented...opportunities defensively...but that first line of Baertschi-Horvat-Virtanen...were they in on all five goals?

Baertschi - 4 assists, one primary and three secondary
Horvat - 2 goals, 1 primary assist
Virtanen - 1 goal, 2 primary assists
Weber - 1 goal, 1 primary assist
Hutton - 1 goal

How'd the rest of the team do offensively? Obviously no one else lit the lamp, but were there opportunities?

McCann hit the post on a partial break.

 

[CCF23]

you make room then. pretty simple. why am i gonna reward vets who play uninspired when theres talented kids willing to give their 100% every single night to win hockey games, who are clearly better at winning hockey games.


this isnt a ****ing country club. i wanna ice the best team. if that means lots of kids, then you trade all the deadweight.


or you could waive sbisa and vey because they suck.

You realize in preseason the kids play a million times harder than the vets (excluding guys like Vey who need to be playing as if their ass is on the line) because they're playing for jobs, right?

If you cut vets all over the league who have been outplayed by kids in the preseason you could probably build a cup winner from the cuts. If you're expecting established, veteran players to bust their ass in the preseason you're not going to get it.

 

[VanillaCoke]

This team is seemingly playing better without the Sedins in the lineup

 

[fancouver]

I think this team is going to be a lot faster than last year. Horvat seems faster. Baertschi. Virtanen, McCann if they make it. On defense Bartkowski is very mobile.

And Sutter's next gear is insanely fast. Hopefully in the regular season those breakaways get converted into goals, but it's a good start. I can see how he's able to get short-handed goals. Separates himself from the opponent pretty quickly.