Post-Game Talk: Canucks 5, Kings 7 in Salt Lake City

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Didnt watch the game, but heard some of it on the radio..Sounds like we took a lot of penalties,and the goaltending sucked.

 

[LickTheEnvelope]

I get the feeling Virtanen will be traded. I think the team and green is at wits end with this guy

If they could get a similar aged struggling dman I'm all for it.

 

[VanJack]

Gaudette is on this team....can't believe they'd play him in four straight exhibition games unless they were convinced that the place for him to mature is at the NHL level. Besides, Green seems sold on him. So what happens next?

Well I suppose they could move Sutter to wing--he's played there before. But that means another winger gets bumped.

There has to be some sort of trade coming.....and Virtanen could be 'it'. He's virtually the only guy the Canucks have that other teams have inquired about. Players like Eriksson, Goldy, Beagle, Schaller and Beagle are untradeable, either because of bad contracts or a performance issues.

 

[DFAC]

Hughes is fantastic.

The Calder race this year will be stacked- Hughes x2, Makar, KK

 

[Fraser28]

Hughes is fantastic.

The Calder race this year will be stacked- Hughes x2, Makar, KK

I see it going as follows:

1. J. Hughes
2. Makar
3. KK
4. Q. Hughes

Pretty damn impressive IMO to have Boeser, Pettersson, and Hughes be the last 3 years. It's a shame we won't continue the streak next year.

 

[Caldercanucks]

I would be satisfied with a fourth.

Wow glad you don't run the team. There's a reason Benning took more calls on Jake than anyone. Has a Floor of a fast defensively responsible 3RD liner who can score 15-20, his ceiling is same type of winger but top 6 and 30 goals. The twins, Nazzy, Burt, were older than Jake before the found there game.

 

[Fraser28]

I would be satisfied with a fourth.

You would be satisfied with unforgivably bad asset management?

 

[DFAC]

I see it going as follows:

1. J. Hughes
2. Makar
3. KK
4. Q. Hughes

Pretty damn impressive IMO to have Boeser, Pettersson, and Hughes be the last 3 years. It's a shame we won't continue the streak next year.

I actually think Makar is going to win it, kid is a superstar in the making

But yeah, 2020 is an absolute stacked draft. A top 10 pick would do wonders for this franchise

 

[DL44]

I would be satisfied with a fourth.

High expectations.
I would be satisfied with a ‘21 4th.

 

[DL44]

Was it the G, the D, the F or the Special teams?

what led us to scoring 5 g tonight?

what led us to give up 7?

 

[GetFocht]

Actually find it absurd how Makar would be ahead of Q Hughes. Watch both players play, there is no player like Hughes in pure skill. He's an absolutely special player and it's not just his elite skating, it's his hockey IQ that is through the roof. There's a difference between a puck rushing defenceman whom can carry the puck and the a defenceman like Hughes who dances on the ice.

 

[mossey3535]

If Makar can get dropped straight into the playoffs and produce, chances are he will be at least neck and neck with Hughes.

I think Makar will win ROY pretty easily if one of the forwards doesn't take it as usual.

 

[swedehollow]

All the main guys have been more or less fine for preseason hockey. Edler, Stecher, Tanev, Myers, Hughes, Marky, Demko, Pettersson, Horvat, Miller all have had flashes of showing they're ready for opening night.

I'd say outside of Biega and Beagle, all of the lower half of the roster/fringe guys have been more underwhelming than anything else. It's disappointing that we are here another year being told we will have competition and depth, yet they all seem to be fighting to be kept off the roster than on it lol

I don't know if it's true for NHLers but in general, if you want to be in the greatest shape possible (conditioning, strength), you should break down you body without fully recovering and then ease up and recover 1-2 weeks before your're supposed to really perform.

These 1-2 weeks before should be about now. If so, the players who don't really have to compete for a spot, likelly will perform poorly at this time. I guess players competing for a spot would try to peak ahead of these pre-season games, and that might be a part of the reason why it's harder for them to play 82 games...

 

[vanuck]

What do you guys think of MacEwen so far in camp? I haven't been able to watch unfortunately...

 

[tantalum]

Meh, bubble players are bubble players for a reason. We have other prospects worth keeping an eye on who weren’t playing tonight. The only guy who played noticeably under expectations (and has a realistic shot at playing NHL games this year) was McEwan.

Bubble players are your organizational depth in times injury. Depth this team has not hade for over half a decade. Depth they continue to not have. That lack of depth will cost them games (and Utica games).

That lack of depth should be absolutely unacceptable after 6 drafts/offseasons of supposed rebuilding of the system.

It’s another year where it was proudly proclaimed that there would be a hugely competitive camp with lots of guys knocking on the door etc. veterans beware! Predictably it has simply exposed how weak the system remains.

For example, I think many were already moving forward without Sutter as Gaudette was going to be primed to take that spot,. Instead I think it has shown they can only move Sutter if they acquire another center because Gaudette simply does not look ready. He is chasing the play in the slower preseason, blowing coverages etc. I’m not sure it’s something that gets fixed with a few weeks in Utica. It looks like he has taken a step back.

And Gaudette is really the only depth center they have. Similar for the blueline...not looking like there is anyone even standing out to be a callup from Utica when injuries hit. Pick a position and based on this camp there isn’t anyone really “knocking on the door” that weren’t on the roster to end last season. That should be disappointing and concerning to everyone. It should also illustrate exactly why pencilling, say, Woo into the lineup a couple years from now is premature.

 

[Catamarca Livin]

You can not say it is the same players as last year knocking on the door. At forward they added Miller, Ferlund as well as Sven, Sutter, Pearson and Leivo are here and healthy. They lost Granlund and Rousell is hurt. So no it is not the same old as last year depth wise.

 

[tantalum]

You can not say it is the same players as last year knocking on the door. At forward they added Miller, Ferlund as well as Sven, Sutter, Pearson and Leivo are here and healthy. They lost Granlund and Rousell is hurt. So no it is not the same old as last year depth wise.

It has nothing to do with the names on the back of the sweater. It’s has to do with it being the same story. Yes they’ve added some guys but guys will also be going out the door. Those that are going out the door and those that want to come through it should be showing something. I don’t care about preseason game outcomes but I do care about individual performances. And those have been poor for those guys.

You can say well they added Ferland and Miller. Sure, but I’m not talking about them. I’m talking about the guys in the bottom six and callup positions that will have a big impact on the success of the team. The preseason performances from that crew have been woeful against some pretty poor opposition (Sutter, Motte, Virtanen, Goldobin, Gaudette, Boucher, Leivo, Chatfueld, etc. maybe add Pearson)

They won’t likely be carrying $10 mil in salary buried in the minors so guys that could be a capable call up like Schaller, Eriksson are going to be moved if possible (or carried as complete dead weight preventing team improvement). At some point they are going to be left with needing the other non-high draft pick blue chip youth to be that depth. If it had gone according to plan that is EXACTLY what would have been done. Schaller, Eriksson and maybe Sutter moved out in the summer to make room for this competitive youth. That youth doesn’t seem to exist. What would have had to happen is you’d end up signing cheaper vets (which is better of course).

This is the same issue the Oilers have had for years. The Canucks IMO have developed the same issue. This camp has done nothing to change my mind. I hoped it would be it hasn’t. If not corrected by some guys taking massive steps ASAP it will sink the blue chip core moving forward or at least make significant progress much, much harder. And I’ll be honest, I’m not convinced the additions move the needle much at all and the needle needs to be moved a bunch.

 

[Hoghandler]

This is the same issue the Oilers have had for years. The Canucks IMO have developed the same issue.

The Canucks forward depth absolutely blows the Oilers out of the water.

Ferland Pettersson Boeser
Pearson Horvat Miller
Roussel Sutter Baerstchi
Leivo Beagle Virtanen

That's my top 12. That bottom 6 certainly could not be considered lean.

Then you have-

Eriksson
Gaudette
Motte
Goldobin

This is what depth looks like. The Oilers depth isn't close.

Not to mention, the Canucks top forward prospects aren't even playing in Utica. Podkolzin, Hoglander, Madden are developing elsewhere.

Depth is the least of this organisation's worries at the moment. Adding another high end talent or 2 at the top end of the roster is what is needed, not more guys fighting for ice at the bottom end.

 

[tantalum]

First on that list of your top 12 I see 4 or 5 guys who aren’t showing much so far.

Sutter of the last 18 months and so far in camp is definitely NOT better than what the Oilers can put on the ice.

Leivo is entirely replaceable by most waiver wire fodder as that is what he is.

Baertschi quite simply isn’t that good of a player. Nor does he stay healthy.

Pearson I don’t believe is a full time top 6 player though may be on this team. We will see on him.

Virtanen takes 2 steps forward and 1.98 steps back. So far in camp he’s taken steps backwards.

Every organization has these players. Yes even the Oilers. And no one actually likes it if they are getting a regular shift in the NHL. Canuck and also shouldn’t be happy.

Second...the point I was making was what is actually on the farm to call up and save the day in times of injury?

You put down Eriksson as that depth(I’ll assume you forgot Schaller). For one they’ve been trying to move those guys and the only reason they didn’t is because the players are so bad for the contracts they have that no one wants to give anything for them. It’s accidental depth that actively prevents acquisition of improved depth. And there is no way they want to carry that dead weight for much time. This is depth everyone wants to see of the team because its bad depth. Not sure how that helps your argument.

So now you’re down to Gaudette, Goldobin and Motte. There is nothing that inspiring about Gaudette’s performance. He was among the worst forwards in the NHL last year for giving up chances and he was in highly sheltered icetime. He arguably looks further behind the play now. His pre-season is not promising to me. He absolutely must improve his defensive play and reads or he won’t be more than a spot player in the NHL.

Goldobin is simply not a NHL player. He had an entire year to show he was. He didn’t. He’s not a call up or depth solution. That’s already been proven.

Motte. Again one of the worst forwards in the NHL. The only one on your list that might qualify as depth. Not a good depth player but similar to what one might normally find on waivers to fill such spots.

Most of these guys are also multiple year veterans. Where are the guys on the ELC that aren’t blue chip high picks making a legitimate push? It’s been several off seasons and we’re still looking at the likes of Reid Boucher being a first call up if a winger gets hurt.

BTW...guess who Pronman has as his top under 23 core organization? Hint. It’s not the Canucks (4th..which I think is likely that be lower after this camp) and it rhymes with coilers. Furthermore most of those players mentioned were Canucks last year...a year they finished 2 whole points ahead of those Oilers (less ROW than the Oilers).

I think underestimate just how bad the team was last year. They missed the playoffs by double digits (yes double digits as the ROWs were terrible they wouldn’t win a tie breaker). In a year where the west overall was terrible and Markstrom put up top 5 play 5-on-5. Improvements may have been made but this was a very very bad team last year. Worse than what an already poor point total showed.

 

[Diversification]

Gaudette plays very manic, that's his biggest problem. He swings wildly at pucks, and he shoots from terrible spots on the ice, and plays with a crazed style on defense. Works fine in a less structured game like college, but dang does he look poor in the NHL. Hopefully it is a style of play that can be coached out of him and his game can be fine tuned. The tools are there

Green seems to like him, playing him a lot, giving him opportunities. I think he may start the season in the NHL

Goldobin should be waived, he has no value at this point, he's not going to ever be an NHL regular

He plays a sort of swashbuckling style where he needs to inject himself into the thick of things to be effective. Not unlike Laperierre or Torres or (older reference) Scatchard. Not a coincidence that all of these players are bottom 6. That’s Gaudette’s likely trajectory as well.

But he needs to play a less manic game away from the puck. That’s what’s hurting him defensively and hopefully what he’ll work on this year - likely on the 4th line in the NHL.

 

[Hoghandler]

There is nothing that inspiring about Gaudette’s performance. He was among the worst forwards in the NHL last year for giving up chances and he was in highly sheltered icetime. He arguably looks further behind the play now. His pre-season is not promising to me.

Most of these guys are also multiple year veterans. Where are the guys on the ELC that aren’t blue chip high picks making a legitimate push? It’s been several off seasons and we’re still looking at the likes of Reid Boucher being a first call up.

Gaudette has scored 3 goalscorers goals in his last 15 minutes of icetime and you're not impressed and think he's taken a step backwards. Travis Green must be easier to impress considering he singled Gaudette out for his quality play through camp.

I just listed 16 forwards that are higher on the depth chart than Reid Boucher. Add Schaller to that list and you still have Reid Boucher as the first call-up? What am I missing?

Disagree with every other comment you made but the list was too long to respond to.

The Canucks are deep at the bottom end of the roster. It's the top end of the roster that could use another quality addition.

 

[tantalum]

Gaudette has scored 3 goalscorers goals in his last 15 minutes of icetime and you're not impressed and think he's taken a step backwards. Travis Green must be easier to impress considering he singled Gaudette out for his quality play through camp.

And has been partially and fully responsible for several goals against. Given that is the side of the puck that prevents him from playing in the NHL then yes I’m not even remotely impressed. At all.

Travis Green also played Gudbranson a lot. Coaches say a lot of things especially in camp when no one is actually doing anything to create a competition. And sure Gaudette is trying to make the team. I’m not saying he isn’t working hard. He’s clearly trying when others aren’t (I think that was greens point). But he also doesn’t look ready to me. He’s better served in the minors than sitting on the bench in the NHL.

I just listed 16 forwards that are higher on the depth chart than Reid Boucher. Add Schaller to that list and you still have Reid Boucher as the first call-up? What am I missing?

I’ve already mentioned. They aren’t going to bury $10 mil on the farm. At least 2 of your extra 4 are not likely to remain in the organization as they’ve been actively trying to move them. And they aren’t bringing back a return if they are moved.

You can put your faith in Goldobin if you like. I wouldn’t based on historical performance of this player. So, wow look at that you are down to Reid Boucher being a first call up on the wing.

Disagree with every other comment you made but the list was too long to respond to.

Good. I guess we’re done then

The Canucks are deep at the bottom end of the roster. It's the top end of the roster that could use another quality addition.

You, IMO, are equating warm bodies with depth. That isn’t depth. It also ignores the cost of those warm bodies to provide waiver wire level play. And it ignores that it’s all pro veterans rather than system drafted and developed players...those are the players that are key in supporting the core moving forward.

I’d recommend assuming that a good chunk of Canuck organizationplayers aren’t as good as you think they and an equally good chunk of opposition players aren’t as bad as you think they are. Not all..some are as good or as bad as you think they are.

 

[Hoghandler]

And has been partially and fully responsible for several goals against. Given that is the side of the puck that prevents him from playing in the NHL then yes I’m not even remotely impressed. At all.

You can put your faith in Goldobin if you like. I wouldn’t based on historical performance of this player. So, wow look at that you are down to Reid Boucher being a first call up on the wing.

Not even remotely impressed by a kid scoring 3 goals in 15 minutes? Alright. You're entitled to your opinion.

Why is my faith in Goldobin? He's not on my roster. And no, you're not down to Reid Boucher as your 1st call-up.

I don't think you're aware how poor other teams forwards are when you're looking this far down a depth chart. The Canucks depth at the bottom end is not a weakness.

 

[tantalum]

Not even remotely impressed by a kid scoring 3 goals in 15 minutes? Alright. You're entitled to your opinion.

Why is my faith in Goldobin? He's not on my roster. And no, you're not down to Reid Boucher as your 1st call-up.

I don't think you're aware how poor other teams forwards are when you're looking this far down a depth chart. The Canucks depth at the bottom end is not a weakness.

In the preseason no I’m not remotely impressed by a few goals from a near 23 year old that has 60 games of nhl experience. I’ve outlined why his play hasn’t been inspiring. You can disagree with the importance of defensive competence if you like it is demonstrating that competence that gets him a permanent shift in the NHL. He hasn’t done that.

Well I assume Goldobin was one of your 16 before Boucher as that was how I got to your 16.

I don’t think you understand how poor the Canucks forwards are that you are calling depth...they are Reid Boucher level. We can put a pin in this and come back to it when in fact the bottom 6 and farm depth does prove to be a weakness. As it is every year with this management team in charge.

This team last year had the worst goal differential when one of the top two centers was not on the ice in the NHL. I don’t see the improvements that change that in any significant degree.

 

[RandV]

Most of these guys are also multiple year veterans. Where are the guys on the ELC that aren’t blue chip high picks making a legitimate push? It’s been several off seasons and we’re still looking at the likes of Reid Boucher being a first call up if a winger gets hurt.

Yes the fact that after 4 years of finishing bottom 10 we still don't have anyone outside of the lottery round pushing to make the team at camp is just a complete top to bottom failure of the development system.