Post-Game Talk: Canucks 5, Kings 7 in Salt Lake City

Fraser28

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Actually find it absurd how Makar would be ahead of Q Hughes. Watch both players play, there is no player like Hughes in pure skill. He's an absolutely special player and it's not just his elite skating, it's his hockey IQ that is through the roof. There's a difference between a puck rushing defenceman whom can carry the puck and the a defenceman like Hughes who dances on the ice.

I would take Makar over Hughes without hesitating. Not sure why you are so adamant that Hughes is better...I definitely have not seen that so far. Makar is special.
 

Hoghandler

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This team last year had the worst goal differential when one of the top two centers was not on the ice in the NHL. I don’t see the improvements that change that in any significant degree.

Couldn't disagree more. Baertschi and Sutter were healthy and in the lineup very little last season. Leivo and Pearson another pair of additions added during the season. Gaudette was a rookie and should be better equipped to handle minutes this year. Most importantly, Miller and Ferland bolster the top 9.

Miller
Ferland
Pearson
Baertschi
Sutter
Leivo

That's a lot of extra man games worth of quality NHL talent up front. Significantly improved depth from last season. If you don't see the improvements, you're probably the only one.

You're also not factoring in how poor the defense was last year and how that impacts goal differential. It's not just the improvements up front that will mitigate the struggles, it's the fact half the d-core has been turned over this summer. And the half of the defense that is still here are the 3 guys that are strong two-way players.

Bottom end depth is the absolute least of this teams worries going into this season. The question marks are higher up the lineup.
 

krutovsdonut

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I would take Makar over Hughes without hesitating. Not sure why you are so adamant that Hughes is better...I definitely have not seen that so far. Makar is special.

i don't think 1 preseason game for hughes is enough to decide that. in fact, we may be debating it for a while.
 

Fraser28

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i don't think 1 preseason game for hughes is enough to decide that. in fact, we may be debating it for a while.

Yeah, it is certainly up for debate. But I'm not basing it on 1 pre-season game at all. I am basing it on Makar in the Playoffs last year, Hughes at the end of the regular season last year, and their overall body of work prior to the NHL. Both will be elite defencemen and have bright futures for sure. Just as of now I would absolutely take Makar over Hughes.
 
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krutovsdonut

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Yeah, it is certainly up for debate. But I'm not basing it on 1 pre-season game at all. I am basing it on Makar in the Playoffs last year, Hughes at the end of the regular season last year, and their overall body of work prior to the NHL. Both will be elite defencemen and have bright futures for sure. Just as of now I would absolutely take Makar over Hughes.

i'd take hughes for now. makar may in conventional terms be a stronger more toolsy player with a better shot, but hughes controlled the pairing and breakout and activated tanev repeatedly offensively last night as a raw rookie, which is like turning water into wine as far as i am concerned. then he gave gaudette a perfect tip pass for an a++++ primary assist.

i'll take the guy who controls the game and makes his teammates better over the great individual effort guy anyday.
 

tantalum

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Couldn't disagree more. Baertschi and Sutter were healthy and in the lineup very little last season. Leivo and Pearson another pair of additions added during the season. Gaudette was a rookie and should be better equipped to handle minutes this year. Most importantly, Miller and Ferland bolster the top 9.

Miller
Ferland
Pearson
Baertschi
Sutter
Leivo

That's a lot of extra man games worth of quality NHL talent up front. Significantly improved depth from last season. If you don't see the improvements, you're probably the only one.

You're also not factoring in how poor the defense was last year and how that impacts goal differential. It's not just the improvements up front that will mitigate the struggles, it's the fact half the d-core has been turned over this summer. And the half of the defense that is still here are the 3 guys that are strong two-way players.

Bottom end depth is the absolute least of this teams worries going into this season. The question marks are higher up the lineup.

Miller and Ferland are slotted to play the top 6 and if they aren’t those are two acquisitions not working as intended. The top 6 wasn’t actually an issue last year in terms of overall balance. It won the matchups and was one of the better in the league (I.e. when Horvat or Pettersson were on the ice they did better than the opposition). Pearson at this point is also slotted as top 6. The bottom 6 is essentially unchanged from last year in terms of quality from my perspective.

Look I know you don’t care what I say because you are just going to say but Sutter is healthy and so is Baertschi! Well not everyone is going to remain healthy (my point on depth) when in the lineup those two weren’t any good! It didn’t matter who was in the bottom six they got owned top to bottom. Gaudette is struggling with minutes in the pre-season. Yes struggling. And he has a long way to go based on his play last year and so far in camp to earn let alone handle more minutes.

I’ll never understand the obsession with Leivo. He’s every bit the player Babcock wouldn’t play.

You think the blueline is going to be better. I suspect they may be better in transition. However, Myers WILL have defensive struggles against the rush and down low. That is the player he is. Hughes is going to have defensive issues. Tanev is going to get hurt. Benn is a #6. I think people are really over estimating this improvement.

And we’ve seen that no on the farm is ready to help the blueline. Hell half of them might not even help Utica. Any improvements are also only going to be realized if Markstrom/Demko provide top 5 5-on-5 goaltending like Marky did last year. A step back in that regard and improvements will be nullified.

Now there are of course question marks higher up...will Pettersson and Boeser take a step forward? Will Edler repeat or regress? Etc.
You think that is the biggest issue, then by extension the bottom of the lineup should be just as big a concern because no one is showing they can step up higher into the lineup if things go south up there. Just as no one is showing they are ready to push and step into the lower ranks of the roster. Those things are what demonstrate the lack of depth.

Now if they decide to use Pearson and Ferland in the bottom 6 then you might see some improvement. But I don’t think that is the plan at all and I don’t think it amounts to the improvement is needed. And that amount = immense (it was really really really bad. Don’t underestimate how bad it was).
 

Fraser28

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i'd take hughes for now. makar may in conventional terms be a stronger more toolsy player with a better shot, but hughes controlled the pairing and breakout and activated tanev repeatedly offensively last night as a raw rookie, which is like turning water into wine as far as i am concerned. then he gave gaudette a perfect tip pass for an a++++ primary assist.

i'll take the guy who controls the game and makes his teammates better over the great individual effort guy anyday.

How much did you watch Makar? Because I'm confused why you are saying Hughes controlled the play and made his teammates better yet Makar did not. That is not even remotely true. Makar does those things about as well as Hughes, plus he has a better shot and is more dynamic.

Miller and Ferland are slotted to play the top 6 and if they aren’t those are two acquisitions not working as intended. The top 6 wasn’t actually an issue last year in terms of overall balance. It won the matchups and was one of the better in the league (I.e. when Horvat or Pettersson were on the ice they did better than the opposition). Pearson at this point is also slotted as top 6. The bottom 6 is essentially unchanged from last year in terms of quality from my perspective.

Look I know you don’t care what I say because you are just going to say but Sutter is healthy and so is Baertschi! Well not everyone is going to remain healthy (my point on depth) when in the lineup those two weren’t any good! It didn’t matter who was in the bottom six they got owned top to bottom. Gaudette is struggling with minutes in the pre-season. Yes struggling. And he has a long way to go based on his play last year and so far in camp to earn let alone handle more minutes.

I’ll never understand the obsession with Leivo. He’s every bit the player Babcock wouldn’t play.

You think the blueline is going to be better. I suspect they may be better in transition. However, Myers WILL have defensive struggles against the rush and down low. That is the player he is. Hughes is going to have defensive issues. Tanev is going to get hurt. Benn is a #6. I think people are really over estimating this improvement.

And we’ve seen that no on the farm is ready to help the blueline. Hell half of them might not even help Utica. Any improvements are also only going to be realized if Markstrom/Demko provide top 5 5-on-5 goaltending like Marky did last year. A step back in that regard and improvements will be nullified.

Now there are of course question marks higher up...will Pettersson and Boeser take a step forward? Will Edler repeat or regress? Etc.
You think that is the biggest issue, then by extension the bottom of the lineup should be just as big a concern because no one is showing they can step up higher into the lineup if things go south up there. Just as no one is showing they are ready to push and step into the lower ranks of the roster. Those things are what demonstrate the lack of depth.

Now if they decide to use Pearson and Ferland in the bottom 6 then you might see some improvement. But I don’t think that is the plan at all.

Our Top 6 and Defence are better than last year. It boggles my mind how anyone can argue otherwise. It's not even up for debate. The JT Miller acquisition alone makes that the case in terms of Top 6, and Ferland is the cherry on top.
 

tantalum

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i don't think 1 preseason game for hughes is enough to decide that. in fact, we may be debating it for a while.

Makar is electrifying. Hughes is as well. I think Makar has the edge as he has had the chance to face elevated game pace and pressure that Hughes hasn’t.

The Avs are annoying as it looks like Timmins is really turning heads as well after missing a full year with concussion issues.
 

Fraser28

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Makar is electrifying. Hughes is as well. I think Makar has the edge as he has had the chance to face elevated game pace and pressure that Hughes hasn’t.

The Avs are annoying as it looks like Timmins is really turning heads as well after missing a full year with concussion issues.

The Avs have the best D-prospect group in the entire league with Makar, Byram, and Timmins.
 
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RandV

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How much did you watch Makar? Because I'm confused why you are saying Hughes controlled the play and made his teammates better yet Makar did not. That is not even remotely true. Makar does those things about as well as Hughes, plus he has a better shot and is more dynamic.



Our Top 6 and Defence are better than last year. It boggles my mind how anyone can argue otherwise. It's not even up for debate. The JT Miller acquisition alone makes that the case in terms of Top 6, and Ferland is the cherry on top.

With the top six it's not so much of a question of whether or not it's better but rather if it's better enough to really move the needle much and in Miller's case justify the cost of acquisition.
 

Hoghandler

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Miller and Ferland are slotted to play the top 6 and if they aren’t those are two acquisitions not working as intended. The top 6 wasn’t actually an issue last year in terms of overall balance. It won the matchups and was one of the better in the league (I.e. when Horvat or Pettersson were on the ice they did better than the opposition). Pearson at this point is also slotted as top 6. The bottom 6 is essentially unchanged from last year in terms of quality from my perspective.

I’ll never understand the obsession with Leivo. He’s every bit the player Babcock wouldn’t play.

Now if they decide to use Pearson and Ferland in the bottom 6 then you might see some improvement. But I don’t think that is the plan at all and I don’t think it amounts to the improvement is needed.

It's not that Miller, Ferland and Pearson will improve the bottom 6, it's that their presence pushes other guys down the depth chart into the bottom 6, strengthening the bottom half of the roster. Instead of Leivo playing on the 1st line, he's down on the 4th line where he can provide better utility. I slotted him in as the 12th forward - so I assume you're not talking about me when you use the term 'obsession'?

I don't see a single player in my bottom 6 that is higher up the depth chart than they belong. You could actually argue a couple of them are lower on the depth chart than their ability suggests.

Roussel Sutter Baertschi
Leivo Beagle Virtanen
Motte

Roussel- excllent 3rd liner
Sutter- if healthy, above average 3rd line centre. Remains to be seen how his body holds up
Baertschi- 2nd line LW that is pushed down the depth chart due to 3 new additions to the top 6
Beagle- quality 4C
Virtanen- coming off a 15 goal season, probably belongs in the top 9
Leivo- quality 12th forward that can produce well in limited minutes

Motte- good player to have waiting in the wings
Gaudette- probably 1st call-up
Goldobin- likely waived, potentially 1st wing call-up
Eriksson- maybe fills in for Roussel until he returns
Schaller- 3rd or 4th call-up from Utica

The Canucks aren't lacking depth at the bottom end, they actually have too many NHL forwards. Hence why they are looking at moving multiple pieces.

Is there anyone in my bottom 7 forwards that look like they don't belong in the role I have them in? Anyone look in over their head?
 
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mossey3535

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i think that gaudette has been good in some aspects this camp and that he's doing what he's supposed to be doing...developing.

We'll see if Ferland and Miller perform as expected but the issue is that shower in the bottom six I'd either too old or too expensive.

As for the defense, honestly fantenburg looks worse than schenn right now.Myers has been underwhelming to me...he might very well shore up the offense but i can't help but think his holding the puck style is going to wither under any pressure which he hasn't really seen so far. Hughes was on the team last year, hopefully he performs up to his talent but you never know.

I have doubts that the Improvements we've made are more than incremental. And further doubts that improvement is going to make enough difference to make this team a bubble playoff team considering the context of the league.
 

tantalum

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Our Top 6 and Defence are better than last year. It boggles my mind how anyone can even argue otherwise. It's not even up for debate.

First the comment wasn’t about the top 6 maybe not being better. The comment was the top 6, using when Horvat and Pettersson were on the ice as a surrogate already performed well compared to the rest of the league. Additions while helpful are not likely to provide a stepwise improvement that is needed to propel the team forward. The issues up front last year stemmed mainly from an incredibly porous and unproductive bottom 6. Some names may change but ultimately see much of the same in those spots so I don’t expect massive improvement from that bottom 6.

Second, the blueline will be better in transition I said that. But I don’t really seem much improvement in terms of defensive coverage. Edler had a great year but he’d need to repeat that which I think is a tall task at his age.

Tanev is Tanev so he’ll be hurt half the year and his play has dropped year on year. Will it continue to drop?

Stecher...I’m not sure how much more room he has to grow. I suspect his play will be similar.

So by my count of those 3 your are more likely to have reduced play or similar play rather than improved play. Throw in Biega and you have 4 returnees who aren’t going to get better. So your improvements are coming from the additions.

Myers is not good in the defensive zone or against the rush. That’s not some unknown or opinion. That is the part of the game he struggles with. Yes better at moving the puck up the ice compared to last years folks but is that going to have a tangible difference. Maybe but unlikely to be at a level that has true impact in the standings.

Benn..he’s a #6 guy. Is he substantially better than a Biega? Doubtful. He’s also 32 years old such that decline and perhaps rapid decline is a very real possibility.

Hughes electrifying and talented but growing pains will be seen.

top 4 for the bulk of the year last year was pretty much Edler, Tanev, Stecher and Hutton. I think it’s highly probable that you are going to see a similar quality this year IMO. Sure Myers may be better than Hutton but is that going to be offset by Edler and Tanev decline? Or even his own decline? I wouldn’t bet against it.

The final pairing in terms of 5-on-5 time is likely to be Hughes and Benn. Benn isn’t an improvement on Biega IMO though it’s a fine contract. He’s a journeyman type guy like a whole host of others. Hell even Gudbranson in a 6/7 spot at that type of salary is fine. Hughes is an unknown yet. No question he’s electrifying but there is also a very real question if he’s going to have a hard time physically when he’s playing night after night after night.

Is it better...sure it’s likely better. Is it better enough to actually make a difference and allow the team to challenge for a playoff spot? I don’t think it is. I think it once again ends up as being a big reason why the team misses the playoffs and everyone acts shocked when that happens.
 

NuxFan09

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Yeah I have to agree with @tantalum here. The lack of push from bubble players this preseason has shown that depth is an issue, especially home grown depth. The Canucks have been fortunate to hit it out of the park with some of their 1st rounders so they do have the foundation of a great core going forward but there's next to nothing outside those guys (Horvat, Boeser, Pettersson, Hughes).
 
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Hoghandler

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Yeah I have to agree with @tantalum here. The lack of push from bubble players this preseason has shown that depth is an issue, especially home grown depth. The Canucks have been fortunate to hit it out of the park with some of their 1st rounders so they do have the foundation of a great core going forward but there's next to nothing outside those guys (Horvat, Boeser, Pettersson, Hughes).

It's not that there's nothing else in the organisation, it's that a bunch of the Canucks top prospects are not in camp right now. Or that the top prospects that are performing well are being looked past because they were expected to be good.

Canucks top prospects-

Hughes- looks great
Podkolzin- NA
Demko- so far so good
Gaudette- 3 goals in his last 15 minutes of ice
Hoglander- NA
Juolevi- still recovering from the knee injury
Woo- played 1 good game and back to Junior
Madden- NA
Lind- showed pretty well and off to Utica
Rathbone- NA
Lockwood- NA
DiPietro- looked pretty good

Those are 12 of the best young prospects in the organisation and virtually none of them have disappointed thus far.

The guys that haven't made a case for themselves are the prospects way down the depth chart that were always going to be big long shots to have NHL careers. They haven't been great, which is of little surprise.
 
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tantalum

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It's not that Miller, Ferland and Pearson will improve the bottom 6, it's that their presence pushes other guys down the depth chart into the bottom 6, strengthening the bottom half of the roster. Instead of Leivo playing on the 1st line, he's down on the 4th line where he can provide better utility. I slotted him in as the 12th forward - so I assume you're not talking about me when you use the term 'obsession'?

I know what you’re saying. I just don’t agree with it. The solution to the bottom 6 has not been to force players down but rather to have players force themselves up. That is missing.

You see guys moving down a depth chart. I see that these guys aren’t any different then the guys leaving or soon to be leaving the organization. Guys like Baertschi. Well he’s more than moving down the depth chart he’s moving out of the NHL IMO. That’s my view.

Sutter, healthy or not, is likely in decline.

Fingers are being crossed for Roussel to bounce back from a serious injury and be at a similar level. That was a deal that many thought would be an issue the last couple of years given how he plays and his age. A major injury is more likely to accelerate that.

Virtanen is the same player that has failed to 8mrpove the last 12 months. I’m not expecting improvement from him so he is status quo. Beagle is status quo. Motte is status quo (and one of the worst forwards in the NHL).

Leivo to me is a pointless player. I just don’t see anything from him that truly helps a team succeed. He has skills but massive inconsistency issues that eliminate his overall contributions and at 26 years of age that is not likely to go away.

You see improvements. I see players unsuited for the role they will be asked to play, or are aging/declining, or are coming off major injuries, or are actively being shopped and waived.

So yes, my concern very much lies in the effectiveness of that bottom 6 and what is coming up behind for help (virtually non existent right now).
 
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Bad Goalie

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IMO:

Cut:
Graovac - Too slow
Boucher - Watch his coverage on the Hutton goal. Just standing in the middle of nowhere. Will never be an NHL player.
Chatfield - This was probably his last NHL game
Bachman & McIntyre - Self-explanatory

Almost cut:
Sautner - Got worse as camp went on. Would like to see him given a chance away from Chatfield
MacEwen - Not showing much
Goldobin - Nothing going on here
Gaudette - 2 goals but abysmal defensive coverage tonight. Needs to go to the AHL and work on things

Definitely on the team:
Hughes

I think should be on the team:
Leivo - The goal he scored - No one else on the bubble can shoot like that

Cut one of Schaller/Eriksson/Motte

I hope Myers fixes his defensive coverage by the time the season starts. So many times he's on the wrong side of the ice leaving a winger on his side all alone for a breakaway. Or caught pinching at center ice while wingers break into the Canucks zone.

Sautner is the Hutton type player right now. He is going to be expected to skate with one of the worst players and carry the pairing. Trouble with that is he is not that kind of player. He does very well with another guy comparable to better than himself. That's what you are seeing with Chatfield as his partner. Hutton was always better when not saddled with Guddy.

If the brass is trying to bill Sautner as the top player of the Utica D-corps, because he is the most experienced of the group with a grand total of 209 GP, and therefore can carry a rookie or basket case defender a la Chatfield, he will disappoint. Fact of the matter is that Blujus with 239 GP and only on an AHL contract is the most experienced and has the best ability to pair up with any other guy and make the duo work. He and Sautner became Cull's most successful pair and were used more than any other pairing and were used against every team's top unit and were the top 2 PK duo. He is now the only hope as a partner for Juolevi with Sifers gone and no veteran D-man signed. That missing D-man with Juolevi, Sautner with Blujus, and Rafferty with Brisebois might be the best 6 Utica could put on the ice. Without that missing vet, the patchwork pairings are all weakened. Of course it would be playing 2 non prospects and leaving Eliot, Teves, LeBlanc, and Chatfield out of the lineup. Personally in this situation I'd send Eliot and Chatfield to Kalamazoo and use LeBlanc and Teves as the reserves and it is guaranteed that both of them would get a lot of ice time with the common ass-aches plaguing any hockey team. They could also rotate in and out of the lineup. Juolevi is going to need down time for awhile. I don't see him doing back to backs, 3 in 4 nights, or 3 in 3 nights, or even 3 in 5 nights for at least half of the season. One day's bag skate blew him right out of the mix.

None of this speculation matters without that vet d-man.
 

VanJack

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That Kings debacle really illustrates how hard it is to put much stock in an exhibition game, with hybrid rosters and what looked to me to be terrible ice conditions in Salt Lake.

And the goaltending. Yikes!. McIntrye and Bachman took turns looking like Martin Brochu in net. They just looked 'small' in goal to me and couldn't make a save when the Canucks needed one. I guess you get spoiled watching Markstrom and Demko, who rarely get beaten on un-screened shots from well out.

Canucks really need to get down to their basic roster quickly. Just the real 'bubble guys' left to look at in the remaining games.
 

Hodgy

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My thoughts in bold, in terms of prospects pressing for roster spots.

It's not that there's nothing else in the organisation, it's that a bunch of the Canucks top prospects are not in camp right now. Or that the top prospects that are performing well are being looked past because they were expected to be good.

Canucks top prospects-

Hughes- looks great No question. But he's a top pick from two years ago, so its a given that he should be pushing for a roster spot.
Podkolzin- NA While you are correct that Podkolzin isn't in camp, if he was, there is virtually zero chance he would be pushing to make the Canucks. Same with Hoglander.
Demko- so far so good Agreed.
Gaudette- 3 goals in his last 15 minutes of ice Its nice he has got results the past two game, but I think most people who have watched him are unsure if he is an NHL player at this point. Hopefully he is.
Hoglander- NA See above re Podkolzin.
Juolevi- still recovering from the knee injury Agreed that he is impossible to evaluate right now, but prior to his injuries, he wasn't tracking well. So we can't give him any benefit of the doubt IMO.
Woo- played 1 good game and back to Junior Woo probably should be pushing to make the team at this point, given that he was a relatively high draft pick from a couple of years ago. Has developed well, but I would've liked to see him around for longer.
Madden- NA Madden is definitely tracking really well, I question whether he could have really pushed for a spot in the NHL at his age and size, though, so I am not sure how relevant him being in the NCAA is.
Lind- showed pretty well and off to Utica Lind showed well relatively to his disaster of a year last year, but was extremely underwhelming from a high second round pick from three years ago. Absolutely him and Gadjovich should have been contending for NHL spots if they were not busts.
Rathbone- NA Rathbone is a long shot that almost certainly wouldn't compete for a spot even if he was at training camp.
Lockwood- NA I agree that Lockwood may have been able to compete for a bottom six spot and provide some competition to guys like Motte and Schaller.
DiPietro- looked pretty good I didn't think he looked pretty good, and he certainly did provide any competition to Demko.

Those are 12 of the best young prospects in the organisation and virtually none of them have disappointed thus far.

The guys that haven't made a case for themselves are the prospects way down the depth chart that were always going to be big long shots to have NHL careers. They haven't been great, which is of little surprise.
 

Hoghandler

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My thoughts in bold, in terms of prospects pressing for roster spots.

Don't really disagree with those takes for the most part. My point wasn't that these players would be pushing for roster spots right now, just that many of the Canucks top prospects aren't even in camp. This is what happens when you take a bunch of European and NCAA guys and have them play in those respective leagues.

The Canucks still have quality youth in the pipeline, a lot of it just so happens to be playing outside Canada at the moment.

There have been some disappointments - MacEwen, Gadjovich, Goldobin maybe the most notable for me. I guess I just wasn't expecting anything from these guys so their lacklustre performances don't really register as anything consequential...

There were 3 young guys I was expecting things from this pre-season and none of them have disappointed thus far IMO. Hughes has come as advertised, Demko looked solid and Gaudette has been our leading scorer. Still defensive issues issues that need to be addressed with Gaudette, but that's not a huge surprise for a young centre looking to make the jump to the NHL.

Can't say I can point to a single young player in this organisation that I had high hopes for coming into camp that has made me do a 180 on. Not even sure who I would put at the top of that list?

Which top young player has everyone been most disappointed by?
 

VanJack

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Don't really disagree with those takes for the most part. My point wasn't that these players would be pushing for roster spots right now, just that many of the Canucks top prospects aren't even in camp. This is what happens when you take a bunch of European and NCAA guys and have them play in those respective leagues.

The Canucks still have quality youth in the pipeline, a lot of it just so happens to be playing outside Canada at the moment.

There have been some disappointments - MacEwen, Gadjovich, Goldobin maybe the most notable for me. I guess I just wasn't expecting anything from these guys so their lacklustre performances don't really register as anything consequential...

There were 3 young guys I was expecting things from this pre-season and none of them have disappointed thus far IMO. Hughes has come as advertised, Demko looked solid and Gaudette has been our leading scorer. Still defensive issues issues that need to be addressed with Gaudette, but that's not a huge surprise for a young centre looking to make the jump to the NHL.

Can't say I can point to a single young player in this organisation that I had high hopes for coming into camp that has made me do a 180 on. Not even sure who I would put at the top of that list?

Which top young player has everyone been most disappointed by?
For me it's Virtanen. Called out for his fitness level in the first practice...and after scoring twice in the pre-season opener, has been coasting ever since. Still suspect there's a good chance he's on the trading block. MacEwen has been a bit of disappointment. But then making the opening night roster was always a long-shot for him, since he doesn't need to clear waivers.

Other than Gaudette, whom I'm not sure still qualifies as a 'prospect', the only guy who sailed past my expectations was Rafferty. There's clearly something there. Will be interesting to monitor his progress in Utica.
 

GetFocht

Indestructible
Jun 11, 2013
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I would take Makar over Hughes without hesitating. Not sure why you are so adamant that Hughes is better...I definitely have not seen that so far. Makar is special.

I disagree, and the funny thing is if the players were switched, you would be clamouring over Hughes and take him over Makar.
 

Fraser28

Registered User
Jan 13, 2013
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I disagree, and the funny thing is if the players were switched, you would be clamouring over Hughes and take him over Makar.

You can disagree all you want, but Makar is considered the better prospect and it's laughable for you to suggest I would say Hughes is better if he were on Colorado. You have no clue.
 
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Hodgy

Registered User
Feb 23, 2012
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Don't really disagree with those takes for the most part. My point wasn't that these players would be pushing for roster spots right now, just that many of the Canucks top prospects aren't even in camp. This is what happens when you take a bunch of European and NCAA guys and have them play in those respective leagues.

The Canucks still have quality youth in the pipeline, a lot of it just so happens to be playing outside Canada at the moment.

There have been some disappointments - MacEwen, Gadjovich, Goldobin maybe the most notable for me. I guess I just wasn't expecting anything from these guys so their lacklustre performances don't really register as anything consequential...

There were 3 young guys I was expecting things from this pre-season and none of them have disappointed thus far IMO. Hughes has come as advertised, Demko looked solid and Gaudette has been our leading scorer. Still defensive issues issues that need to be addressed with Gaudette, but that's not a huge surprise for a young centre looking to make the jump to the NHL.

Can't say I can point to a single young player in this organisation that I had high hopes for coming into camp that has made me do a 180 on. Not even sure who I would put at the top of that list?

Which top young player has everyone been most disappointed by?

All teams have good prospects in different leagues though, whether junior or professional, but the biggest step any prospect has to make is at training camp and during the preseason where they play against professional, NHL, competition. This is the point that separates legitimate NHL prospects from players like Lind and Gadjovich. So I don't put too much weight into your argument that "we have a bunch of great prospects that haven't reached this point", since it is far too difficult to predict whether these players will be legitimate prospects. Sure, some of our prospects look promising, but so do many prospect before they play "NHL" professional hockey.

This isn't to discount some of our prospects (for example, I am quite high on Madden), it is only to put things into perspective. The type of prospects you are talking about always look better and more promising since they haven't really been tested - its why Palmu looked like a half decent prospect last year. All teams have prospects of this nature. But the real test and indication of a team's prospect system is whether they have the type of prospects that push for NHL spots at training camp.
 

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