Post-Game Talk: Canucks 5, Kings 7 in Salt Lake City

[krutovsdonut]

I don't think it's going to be much of a debate, makar is better.

what do you project hughes to be?

 

[Fraser28]

what do you project hughes to be?

What does that have to do with Makar being better?

 

[krutovsdonut]

What does that have to do with Makar being better?

it's a weird thing here that you can be quoted by a poster and respond in the context of that original quoted post and someone who is not paying attention will jump in and accuse you of going off topic. but it is really weird thing when it is the guy you were originally talking to who is the one who does it.

 

[VanillaCoke]

what do you project hughes to be?

Hughes projects as a pretty good PP specialist, makar projects as better than him.

 

[krutovsdonut]

Hughes projects as a pretty good PP specialist, makar projects as better than him.

are you expecting his size to limit him to a pp guy ? i saw no other deficiency at even strength last night.

 

[Fraser28]

it's a weird thing here that you can be quoted by a poster and respond in the context of that original quoted post and someone who is not paying attention will jump in and accuse you of going off topic. but it is really weird thing when it is the guy you were originally talking to who is the one who does it.

What are you talking about? I didn't say you went off topic - it just seemed like you were going to go down the path of attacking him for saying Makar is better just like you did to me (even though Makar IS better).

 

[krutovsdonut]

What are you talking about? I didn't say you went off topic - it just seemed like you were going to go down the path of attacking him for saying Makar is better just like you did to me (even though Makar IS better).

did i hurt you under a previous username or something?

you and i were talking about which one would be better. i said i thought it would take a while to sort out but i liked hughes right now. he chimed in with an opinion makar was better so i asked where he projected hughes to be. he said a pp specialist. now we are discussing the reasons for that projection.

basically a totally normal civilized hockey discussion except for your weird interjections.

 

[VanillaCoke]

are you expecting his size to limit him to a pp guy ? i saw no other deficiency at even strength last night.

There's plenty of deficiencies to be seen, for obvious reasons and less obvious ones. Whatever development you want to believe is going to happen for hughes, is equally accurate for Makar, and makar is better now and has always been.

 

[Fraser28]

did i hurt you under a previous username or something?

you and i were talking about which one would be better. i said i thought it would take a while to sort out but i liked hughes right now. he chimed in with an opinion makar was better so i asked where he projected hughes to be. he said a pp specialist. now we are discussing the reasons for that projection.

basically a totally normal civilized hockey discussion except for your weird interjections.

Sorry man, honest mistake. I thought it was you who said the following, but it was Brickstrom:
"I disagree, and the funny thing is if the players were switched, you would be clamouring over Hughes and take him over Makar."

It's the above that I was referring to, which I think we can both agree is not civil conversation.

 

[krutovsdonut]

Sorry man, honest mistake. I thought it was you who said the following, but it was Brickstrom:
"I disagree, and the funny thing is if the players were switched, you would be clamouring over Hughes and take him over Makar."

It's the above that I was referring to, which I think we can both agree is not civil conversation.

go it, ok. i was confused there. no worries.

 

[Krnuckfan]

There's plenty of deficiencies to be seen, for obvious reasons and less obvious ones. Whatever development you want to believe is going to happen for hughes, is equally accurate for Makar, and makar is better now and has always been.

Saying Makar has always been better is a bit misleading. Makar's d+1 season was pretty disappointing in terms of his production but he really lit it up in his d+2 and became a bonafide elite prospect.

I saw Makar play during the playoffs and no doubt he's a great prospect. Hughes definitely is the quicker player, his hockey sense offensively is at least as good, and I think he's a better passer as well.

Makar is obviously a lot bigger and won't be pushed around by bigger forwards defensively. I think hughes' boardwork is pretty weak and same with his netfront presence.

 

[VanillaCoke]

Wont be long to see who is right..

Based on historical evidence, pretty safe bet krutovs rose colored glasses are again incorrect.

 

[krutovsdonut]

There's plenty of deficiencies to be seen, for obvious reasons and less obvious ones. Whatever development you want to believe is going to happen for hughes, is equally accurate for Makar, and makar is better now and has always been.

what does that have to do whith you projecting hughes as a pp specialist? i am just curious why you see him so limited

 

[VanillaCoke]

what does that have to do whith you projecting hughes as a pp specialist? i am just curious why you see him so limited

If you see hughes as a #1 dman thats great, you're probably wrong but thats your prerogative. I see Makar as better than hughes, as he is rated, projected, and currently performs. Which was the original point. Makar is better.

 

[krutovsdonut]

If you see hughes as a #1 dman thats great, you're probably wrong but thats your prerogative. I see Makar as better than hughes, as he is rated, projected, and currently performs. Which was the original point. Makar is better.

so that's two deflections of the same question. are you walking back the hughes will be a power play specialist thing? did i maybe misunderstand you?

 

[VanillaCoke]

You're moving the f***ing goalposts, like usual. Not me.

Makar is better than hughes.

i don't think 1 preseason game for hughes is enough to decide that. in fact, we may be debating it for a while.

I don't think it's going to be much of a debate, makar is better.

 

[krutovsdonut]

You're moving the ****ing goalposts, like usual. Not me.

Makar is better than hughes.

you said you project hughes as a powerplay specialist. i asked you why you saw him limited that way. you will not answer the question. i even asked if i misunderstood you.

how exactly is that me moving goalposts?

 

[VanillaCoke]

Why i think hes a pp specialist is equally irrelevant as why you think he's a #1dman....

The point is and has always been that makar is better, and it wont take much time to see who is right.

Each individual reasoning is irrelevant, I don't give a f*** why you think hughes is better, i give a f*** that you're going to be wrong, again, and soon.

 

[Hoghandler]

All teams have good prospects in different leagues though, whether junior or professional, but the biggest step any prospect has to make is at training camp and during the preseason where they play against professional, NHL, competition. This is the point that separates legitimate NHL prospects from players like Lind and Gadjovich. So I don't put too much weight into your argument that "we have a bunch of great prospects that haven't reached this point", since it is far too difficult to predict whether these players will be legitimate prospects. Sure, some of our prospects look promising, but so do many prospect before they play "NHL" professional hockey.

This isn't to discount some of our prospects (for example, I am quite high on Madden), it is only to put things into perspective. The type of prospects you are talking about always look better and more promising since they haven't really been tested - its why Palmu looked like a half decent prospect last year. All teams have prospects of this nature. But the real test and indication of a team's prospect system is whether they have the type of prospects that push for NHL spots at training camp.

Well sure, the 2 biggest jumps are going pro to the AHL, then up to the NHL. Those 2 jumps do separate the wheat from the chaff. But you can't just discount the quality of the Canucks prospect pool because so few of our top prospects are even in camp.

If you disagree, list which 3 prospects have been the most disappointing thus far through the pre-season. I tried it, and quickly realised there just isn't much there in terms of prospects that have let the team down. Because as I stated earlier, the high end guys have performed, while it's the 3rd and 4th tier group that haven't stepped it up - a small collection of players that had limited NHL upside to begin with, if any at all.

Which 3 good prospects have flopped the hardest as of now?

 

[Disappointed EP40]

Wow glad you don't run the team. There's a reason Benning took more calls on Jake than anyone. Has a Floor of a fast defensively responsible 3RD liner who can score 15-20, his ceiling is same type of winger but top 6 and 30 goals. The twins, Nazzy, Burt, were older than Jake before the found there game.

This is 100% wrong.

Virtanen is worth a 2nd or 3rd.

 

[Motte and Bailey]

what do you project hughes to be?

I like the Scotty Niedermayer comparison but Hughes plays a lot more aggressively than Scotty did. I’d say Hughes’ tools, his skating, his vision, his playmaking, his IceQ, his hands, they are very Niedermayeresque. But Hughes does not play like Niedermayer. At all. Niedermayer was a safe, calm, and extremely defensively sound defender. You wanted Niedermayer on the ice to defend in a critical situation as much as when you critically needed a goal. Hughes’ defensive abilities are not close to Niedermayer’s, though it took many years for Scotty to transform into an elite shutdown D that could also score 50+ points. Hughes takes risks. He plays extremely aggressively and has the capacity to execute his aggression while making opponents look silly because of his skating and his hands. Quinn’s play style is a lot closer to Bobby Orr. Hughes’ relentless aggression reminds me of Bobby Orr clips on YouTube. But Hughes doesn’t have the physical tools that Bobby Orr had. Orr was head and shoulders above everyone else in the league at skating. Hughes is a fantastic skater but he’s not even the best in the league, that’s Connor Mcdavid. He might be in the top tier but he won’t dominate quite as hard as Bobby Orr did. Unless Hughes’ previous displays of elite skill and utter domination at every level were a mirage we can expect them to continue happen while playing NHL hockey so we can reasonably project Hughes’ offence somewhere between Nieds’ 48pts/82gp average and Orr’s 114pts/gp.

 

[sting101]

This is 100% wrong.

Virtanen is worth a 2nd or 3rd.

A 3rd ?

 

[krutovsdonut]

Why i think hes a pp specialist is equally irrelevant as why you think he's a #1dman....

The point is and has always been that makar is better, and it wont take much time to see who is right.

Each individual reasoning is irrelevant, I don't give a **** why you think hughes is better, i give a **** that you're going to be wrong, again, and soon.

ok well, my bad, i was here to discuss hockey and misunderstood why you were here. let me try and relate to your interests better.

are you here more for art of the hot take or more for keeping score on the hot takes?

 

[krutovsdonut]

I like the Scotty Niedermayer comparison but Hughes plays a lot more aggressively than Scotty did. I’d say Hughes’ tools, his skating, his vision, his playmaking, his IceQ, his hands, they are very Niedermayeresque. But Hughes does not play like Niedermayer. At all. Niedermayer was a safe, calm, and extremely defensively sound defender. You wanted Niedermayer on the ice to defend in a critical situation as much as when you critically needed a goal. Hughes’ defensive abilities are not close to Niedermayer’s, though it took many years for Scotty to transform into an elite shutdown D that could also score 50+ points. Hughes takes risks. He plays extremely aggressively and has the capacity to execute his aggression while making opponents look silly because of his skating and his hands. Quinn’s play style is a lot closer to Bobby Orr. Hughes’ relentless aggression reminds me of Bobby Orr clips on YouTube. But Hughes doesn’t have the physical tools that Bobby Orr had. Orr was head and shoulders above everyone else in the league at skating. Hughes is a fantastic skater but he’s not even the best in the league, that’s Connor Mcdavid. He might be in the top tier but he won’t dominate quite as hard as Bobby Orr did. Unless Hughes’ previous displays of elite skill and utter domination at every level were a mirage we can expect them to continue happen while playing NHL hockey so we can reasonably project Hughes’ offence somewhere between Nieds’ 48pts/82gp average and Orr’s 114pts/gp.

i don't see any hughes comparison to niedermeyer. i don't really see a good historic comparison.

 

[strattonius]

I think it's stupid at this point to claim either Hughes or Makar is better. They are both elite D prospects and will likely both be great players moving forward.

The fact that Makar is ranked around 3rd and Hughes 5th on most lists is almost completely negligible atm.