Post-Game Talk: Canucks 3, Penguins 2 (OT) - Sid Half Asses Another OT Change

[Riptide]

CBJ Fan here coming in peace!

How has Jack Johnson been? I don’t want to make any judgements off his stats alone.

He's had some good games, and some bad ones. But then most of the team has been bad in the majority of the games we've played... so I wouldn't read too much into that. And making matter's worse, we lost our #3D in Schultz... which only puts more pressure on everyone else going forward - not so much for icetime, but to fill his puck movement role. Other's can do it and it won't be terrible, but we'd be better with Schultz in the lineup.

But overall before making any real judgements, I'm giving things at least 20 or so games to get a larger sample size, and for the team to get their shit together. Then we can assess things.

 

[Riptide]

The problem isn't with the players, it's the coach's system.

@Andy99

What part of this is "the coaches system" ?? You have 3 guys behind the net, and the puck and all 5 Canucks are already going the other way. This isn't a "coaching issue" - this is a player's issue.

Or this? It's a 5-3, with all 5 Penguins back below the hash marks... and yet of those 3 Canucks, 2 are open and not covered. Again, this isn't a coaching issue.

 

[Peat]

Coaching is what prepares the players, what tells them what to look for first and what risks are permissible. If players keep taking stupid risks, if they keep not playing the game situation, if they keep making bad defensive reads, then you should look at the coaching. The coaches can't make the decisions for the players but they have a big influence on what decisions the players make.



That said, what stood out for me in the bit I watched wasn't organisation or effort, it was skill. The amount of bobbled pucks, pucks let slip out the zone, bad passes with no pressure and everything else... they just looked like a team that's still in pre-season, that's not playing with a free and instinctual mind, that's a bit low on confidence. I don't know what the underlying problem is, but that's really one of the first things that has to be fixed.

I looked at the ice time after the game. If you don't trust your bottom lines against an injury weakened Canucks in a 2-1 game at home, then you need to make them stronger. Maybe Sully's logic is that if the stars are misfiring, its to keep force feeding them time in the hope of getting a jump, but I'm pretty sure that down the line he'll get better results from beefing up the other units and telling the stars that if they want ice time, they need to deserve it.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

The mistakes are often enough where its less "players having an off game" and more of a "the players aren't on the same page" and usually that's because they are not practicing the same system the way they are supposed to or maybe the system needs to be looked at.

Everyone got faster in the league as a whole, teams got faster. The Pens got deeper and suddenly, more of a mess.

I would like to have it be as easy as "so and so just sucks" and for some, it does work, but on this grand of a scale?

You'd almost have to be absurdly kidding yourself to not think it's a coaching issue when it's the same problems a season over. That's two seasons now that this crap is ongoing.

 

[SHOOTANDSCORE]

I'm just over Maatta at this point. I know it's probably irrational, but I'm just tired of watching him skate at half the speed the other players on the ice are skating at, and making these boneheaded decisions because he's always trying to compensate for being so slow.

I had a similar thought tonight. He's so damn frustrating and his regression has me spooked to the point that I'd be shopping him like it was Black Friday and Cyber Monday combined. That's sad for me to admit because I was so high on him.

@Andy99

What part of this is "the coaches system" ?? You have 3 guys behind the net, and the puck and all 5 Canucks are already going the other way. This isn't a "coaching issue" - this is a player's issue.

Or this? It's a 5-3, with all 5 Penguins back below the hash marks... and yet of those 3 Canucks, 2 are open and not covered. Again, this isn't a coaching issue.

Bingo!
Someone let them know that this isn't Da Beauty League.

This is beer league level commitment to D. It seems like they want to have fun and aren't willing to put in the dirty work necessary to win.

Notice them all staring at the puck. LOL. Jake and Hags are already heading North.

 

[SHOOTANDSCORE]

delete

 

[WayneSid9987]

Also, believe it or not, i think this team could use a lengthy road trip.
They came out well in MTL but with the Schultz injury it threw everything into chaos again.
Perhaps the focus on the details will be more prevalent in away game after away game, etc.
Something needs to bring them together more.

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

The problem isn't with the players, it's the coach's system. It doesn't work well anymore and is forcing Pens players into mistakes instead of what they know is the obvious play. Pens roster isn't so fast in skating or puck movement compared to the rest of the league anymore either.

There's different ways to win a cup, one way only lasts so long with the same roster. Today teams like the Leafs just seem to do it better, even though imo their roster is a step below the Pens.

Pens have become old and slow in a hurry. Nearly every team in the league now can fly. Hard to believe a similar roster was so much faster than every team a couple years ago. I imagine they'll look better as time goes on but it's not encouraging so far.

 

[WayneSid9987]

Pens have become old and slow in a hurry. Nearly every team in the league now can fly. Hard to believe a similar roster was so much faster than every team a couple years ago. I imagine they'll look better as time goes on but it's not encouraging so far.

Theres a tinge of this too but not seeing what Sprong has in the top 6 and placing a youngin' from Wilkes on the 4th line instead of Cullen would certainly be a step in the right direction on that front.
Since Grant already cleared, let him hang down in Wilkes and get reps and get a Haggerty or Johnson/DiPauli/Angello up here and sit Cullen here and there.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

I think Sid's done for real this time

I agree.

 

[ronduguayshair]

@Andy99

What part of this is "the coaches system" ?? You have 3 guys behind the net, and the puck and all 5 Canucks are already going the other way. This isn't a "coaching issue" - this is a player's issue.

Or this? It's a 5-3, with all 5 Penguins back below the hash marks... and yet of those 3 Canucks, 2 are open and not covered. Again, this isn't a coaching issue.

Thank you for this post. People always blame the coach in Pgh cause it’s easy easy convenient thing to do. This is on the players. They refuse to play a smart game.

I do think teams have figured out how to beat our system in the neutral zone.

 

[AverageJoeFan]

The team needs to figure out how to beat traps and neutral zone clogs on transition. No support beyond center ice passes for deflections that no one has speed entering the zone to cause issues for the opposition on the forecheck. Stretch isn't working. They are getting beat each night by teams willing to play a counter game and be patient. Too many times you have poor support against team coming out of their own end as well.

Maybe it's a team issue. But I have to believe some of it is not having the structure ingrained to cause good habits. Too many D man pinches without forward support especially in the neutral ice area. Too many odd man rushes against.

I think this team needs to get back to basics as a whole as far as playing a 200' game. Counter when possible, attack when opportune, and be patient.

It's way early for the panic button, but some line-up changes might help.

With that said I thought the 4th line wasn't horrid. Line 2 looked marvelous for a brief moment or two. Line 3 looks lost on occasion.

Brass should not be on Sid's line. I just do not think this is going to work.

I think playing Sprong 6-8 minutes a night to shelter him is a very safe move, but I really hope this changes. I am really curious why HCMS hasn't swapped the lines up more during the game. It was kind of his MO but it seems he has gone away from that.

DeSmith is a fine goalie, but Murray really needs to be in if he is healthy. I am really dreading TOR with how we have played so far this year. Could end up being 12-2. Not even joking...

 

[vodeni]

Coaching is what prepares the players, what tells them what to look for first and what risks are permissible. If players keep taking stupid risks, if they keep not playing the game situation, if they keep making bad defensive reads, then you should look at the coaching. The coaches can't make the decisions for the players but they have a big influence on what decisions the players make.



That said, what stood out for me in the bit I watched wasn't organisation or effort, it was skill. The amount of bobbled pucks, pucks let slip out the zone, bad passes with no pressure and everything else... they just looked like a team that's still in pre-season, that's not playing with a free and instinctual mind, that's a bit low on confidence. I don't know what the underlying problem is, but that's really one of the first things that has to be fixed.

I looked at the ice time after the game. If you don't trust your bottom lines against an injury weakened Canucks in a 2-1 game at home, then you need to make them stronger. Maybe Sully's logic is that if the stars are misfiring, its to keep force feeding them time in the hope of getting a jump, but I'm pretty sure that down the line he'll get better results from beefing up the other units and telling the stars that if they want ice time, they need to deserve it.

This! This blows my mind, I keep bringing it up here but no one seems willing to take a bite , until you came along...People say its early, don't panic...I would not if Sully was not panicking, The dude shortens his bench against injury riddled low teams Montreal and Vancouver and he loses both those games....If he was working the system he would roll four lines at this point get guys minutes, something is off...

 

[vodeni]

I had a similar thought tonight. He's so damn frustrating and his regression has me spooked to the point that I'd be shopping him like it was Black Friday and Cyber Monday combined. That's sad for me to admit because I was so high on him.

Bingo!
Someone let them know that this isn't Da Beauty League.

This is beer league level commitment to D. It seems like they want to have fun and aren't willing to put in the dirty work necessary to win.

Notice them all staring at the puck. LOL. Jake and Hags are already heading North.

someone? maybe coach?

 

[vikingGoalie]

God I hope Sid is actually *not* putting in effort right now. Because if this is him putting in effort we are done like dinner.

Maatta is painfully slow, I literally have some defensemen in beer league that could out skate him.

We'll probably see Murray next game, DeSmith was decent in this game, but not great. Yes his defense totally stunk (again), but a couple of those goals while not weak were definitely on his shoulders some.
Can't let a pass go through the crease, though the bigger issue is how is that guy that open on the back door?
The deflection he got a bit twitchy on his reaction and lost his balance and then was toast because of course our defense can't cover for that.

I hope Murray is ready for the heat because Toronto is gonna bring it, though maybe a game like this will shake the penguins awake?

 

[Freedom]

If you're going to move Guentzel, why would you also break up HMK? They've been good.

Thats right but other lines don't work pretty well. We need try something else. Guentzel worked with Geno and Phil in the past

 

[vodeni]

Pens have become old and slow in a hurry. Nearly every team in the league now can fly. Hard to believe a similar roster was so much faster than every team a couple years ago. I imagine they'll look better as time goes on but it's not encouraging so far.

thats on overall management. they need to understand where geno, Sid and Kessel are and what needs to compliment them to maintain that kind of level...you have friggin JS Dea fit like hand in glove with Devils but he looked like stiff here in preseason, you have a few hungry guys in A, maybe call them up and try to light the fire up, or make trades to compliment your new identity, Everyone says we are deep, and our third line is Rust, Sheahan, hornquist (probably never to score a goal) and fourth line pivot is a corpse that can barely skate. Thats not depth, that is a major sucktitude

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I have zero clue how we have anyone bitching about Kessel right now. It’s almost comical, but it’s exactly what I was talking about earlier how people are inventing stupid things he’s doing out there.

I was at the game and watched every one of his shifts just to make sure what I was seeing on TV with him was the same... he is out there working hard and he’s not the one making the big mistakes costing this team goals.

In fact, he’s the guy keeping this team afloat with his talent to kick the season off, once again.

I’m almost afraid to imagine what kind of start they would be off to if they weren’t lucky enough to have a third superstar like Kessel.

 

[vodeni]

I have zero clue how we have anyone *****ing about Kessel right now. It’s almost comical, but it’s exactly what I was talking about earlier how people are inventing stupid things he’s doing out there.

I was at the game and watched every one of his shifts just to make sure what I was seeing on TV with him was the same... he is out there working hard and he’s not the one making the big mistakes costing this team goals.

In fact, he’s the guy keeping this team afloat with his talent to kick the season off, once again.

I’m almost afraid to imagine what kind of start they would be off to if they weren’t lucky enough to have a third superstar like Kessel.

he is actually trying hard, he is skating, you can tell (just like he did the whole first half of the last season), however, there is something amiss when he and Geno are on the ice, the opponent has zero problems skating through the NZ (not much different with other lines, but that line is glaring)., geno is looping around, if he does not pick a pocket, the guy flys by him, so the first effort by Hageling to to pressure as F1 is wasted, they got puck behind them and then they lose most of the wall battles so they can't sustain any pressure, It would help if there are some confident blue liners behind but thats not what we have now. The problem with that line is even with Phil playing well, and Geno playing well, its still will be even line at best....we need them to be major plus line....since our third and fouth lines kind of suck...

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I actually hope we keep the lines the same against Toronto, because we're going to get massacred either way and I don't want Sullivan to try something sensible for one game and then use getting shellacked to justify going back to this tire fire configuration.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

he is actually trying hard, he is skating, you can tell (just like he did the whole first half of the last season), however, there is something amiss when he and Geno are on the ice, the opponent has zero problems skating through the NZ (not much different with other lines, but that line is glaring)., geno is looping around, if he does not pick a pocket, the guy flys by him, so the first effort by Hageling to to pressure as F1 is wasted, they got puck behind them and then they lose most of the wall battles so they can't sustain any pressure, It would help if there are some confident blue liners behind but thats not what we have now. The problem with that line is even with Phil playing well, and Geno playing well, its still will be even line at best....we need them to be major plus line....since our third and fouth lines kind of suck...

HMK is the only line that is effective and producing. Hags is the guy I think hurting that line because he kills plays when the puck is on his stick, but I liked his game last night.

People want to rag on Phil, but last night he was playing the NZ fine, it’s Malkin that likes to freelance and it kills the 1-2.

I was watching the Nucks setup their 1-2 all night and using them as a clinic to teach my daughter. They were staying in their lanes and being patient... letting the play come to them.

Crosby and Malkin don’t want to play that kind of game in Oct, and there is no real solution I can think of, other than Sullivan getting on his hands and knees and begging them.

But this nonsense of blaming Kessel... it’s gotten ridiculous. People obviously don’t understand what they are seeing.

 

[Peat]

I actually hope we keep the lines the same against Toronto, because we're going to get massacred either way and I don't want Sullivan to try something sensible for one game and then use getting shellacked to justify going back to this tire fire configuration.

7-6 victory that keeps the lines rolling coming up.

(In all seriousness, I think it'll be interesting to see if some heavyweight opposition gets that extra burst of energy out of Sid & Geno)

 

[Shady Machine]

I have zero clue how we have anyone *****ing about Kessel right now. It’s almost comical, but it’s exactly what I was talking about earlier how people are inventing stupid things he’s doing out there.

I was at the game and watched every one of his shifts just to make sure what I was seeing on TV with him was the same... he is out there working hard and he’s not the one making the big mistakes costing this team goals.

In fact, he’s the guy keeping this team afloat with his talent to kick the season off, once again.

I’m almost afraid to imagine what kind of start they would be off to if they weren’t lucky enough to have a third superstar like Kessel.

Agreed. I thought Kessel was great last night. He was engaged on the forecheck and won battles to keep the play alive in the corner.

People want Kessel to play like Rust and score like Kessel. What people fail to realize is that player would miss 20 games a year and that player wouldn't have been available via trade.

Kessel is a primary reason for at least 3 of the 6 points the Pens have this year. He's not a perfect player. Guess what, no one is and I'll take what Kessel is doing out there right now vs Sid. Yet people continue to rip on the guy.

 

[Bingo71]

I just want to see all of the talented forwards be on at the same time.

It always seems like only one of them has a streak and then goes cold and then another one goes on a streak and then goes cold...

Sure, that’s what keeps this team afloat but is it too much to ask to have everyone at the top of their game more often than not?

 

[Gurglesons]

7-6 victory that keeps the lines rolling coming up.

(In all seriousness, I think it'll be interesting to see if some heavyweight opposition gets that extra burst of energy out of Sid & Geno)

We saw it last year, it will no matter what. The question is how many goals Toronto needs to score before we see them actually play positionally well.

 

[SouthGeorge]

Of course Sutter beat us. Goal and won a big faceoff against Geno when his whole line was gassed. I never wanted him traded.