Post-Game Talk: Canucks 3, Penguins 2 (OT) - Sid Half Asses Another OT Change

[mpp9]

Pretty funny the two guys on the hf trade block this summer are our team MVPs by a mile.

Kessel will tail off for a stretch but I hope Letang can have that Norris level season. Can really offset any other issues.

 

[Trade]

Wonder how bad the game vs Leafs will be? guessing Matthews reaches 20 points minimum (needs 4 points). LOL!! going to be hilarious.

but we still come out with a win cause Crosby will try. 9-8 final score.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Or this? It's a 5-3, with all 5 Penguins back below the hash marks... and yet of those 3 Canucks, 2 are open and not covered. Again, this isn't a coaching issue.

How does this happen so often? The above isn't an isolated issue with the Pens. This is the kind of thing we see pretty much the majority of the time the opposition enters the Pens' zone, where they'll all swarm to one side of the ice and watch the puck carrier behind the net/along the boards, while leaving one or two guys wide open in the slot/around the net.

This is the type of shit that keeps happening over and over again. And I don't get why.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I agree.

Off to the glue factory with that soft headed maritimer.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

How does this happen so often? The above isn't an isolated issue with the Pens. This is the kind of thing we see pretty much the majority of the time the opposition enters the Pens' zone, where they'll all swarm to one side of the ice and watch the puck carrier behind the net/along the boards, while leaving one or two guys wide open in the slot/around the net.

This is the type of **** that keeps happening over and over again. And I don't get why.

If you go back to last season, they were doing this a lot and at first I thought ok, maybe its the back 2 back games and the fatigue, but did it all season long and in the playoffs and then they're doing it this year after having some rest from an early playoffs exit.

The biggest issue with the Penguins is arrogance.

This is a very arrogant team that thinks saying the right things will correct things eventually. There isn't a lot of ownership if their mistakes. The only guy on this team that ever seems to, was the whipping boy of last season, Kris Letang, oddly enough.

And Kris is hardly the issue this year, he's actually been more of his old self and we're better for that (at least).

 

[SouthGeorge]

How does this happen so often? The above isn't an isolated issue with the Pens. This is the kind of thing we see pretty much the majority of the time the opposition enters the Pens' zone, where they'll all swarm to one side of the ice and watch the puck carrier behind the net/along the boards, while leaving one or two guys wide open in the slot/around the net.

This is the type of **** that keeps happening over and over again. And I don't get why.

Poor coaching. It's really simple stuff.. F1 brings the puck in. F2 support. F3 stay high/slot. Say the puck goes around the boards and F3 goes for it. F1 rotate high and take F3 spot and F2 support the puck. Same issue where the LD gets the puck on the boards and the RD is hugging the right boards instead of dropping to the middle. No support anywhere!!! Very aggressive offensive hockey that isn't producing goals and giving a lot up.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Of course Sutter beat us. Goal and won a big faceoff against Geno when his whole line was gassed. I never wanted him traded.

 

[Shady Machine]

If you go back to last season, they were doing this a lot and at first I thought ok, maybe its the back 2 back games and the fatigue, but did it all season long and in the playoffs and then they're doing it this year after having some rest from an early playoffs exit.

The biggest issue with the Penguins is arrogance.

This is a very arrogant team that thinks saying the right things will correct things eventually. There isn't a lot of ownership if their mistakes. The only guy on this team that ever seems to, was the whipping boy of last season, Kris Letang, oddly enough.

And Kris is hardly the issue this year, he's actually been more of his old self and we're better for that (at least).

Oh great back to the arrogant thing.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Poor coaching. It's really simple stuff.. F1 brings the puck in. F2 support. F3 stay high/slot. Say the puck goes around the boards and F3 goes for it. F1 rotate high and take F3 spot and F2 support the puck. Same issue where the LD gets the puck on the boards and the RD is hugging the right boards instead of dropping to the middle. No support anywhere!!! Very aggressive offensive hockey that isn't producing goals and giving a lot up.

True....

It's an aggressive system that isn't as aggressive anymore because the team doesn't play like a unit so you have individual aggressive rushes up the ice that leads to stupid long bombs or dump ins and not a properly constructed break out like they did during the back 2 back cups. My biggest concern was the evolution of the system that won us the cup. I have seen countless times, coaches primed for greatness, fail to do so after achieving that success. The most recent one before this regime was the Bylsma tenure and now we're seeing that I know people are tired of hearing it, but you can't ignore it.

Sullivan needed to look hard at his system and make the tweaks, he hasn't. It's not working and the players are frustrated and reverting back to the crap that they were doing under MJ. Dump and chase, force passes up the wall or throw errant passes through the middle and then hang back while the forwards try to break through 5 players with 3 players only.

There's a huge huge HUGE disconnect with the Forwards and Defense and just a general lack of disinterest in the current system that won them 2 cups and then earned them an early exit last season and they're primed for a repeat of last year. Sullivan is a smart guy, very intelligent coach, but he's also incredibly arrogant. It's almost going to take a pretty long losing streak of at least 5+ games to get Sullivan to wake up and make the changes and unfortunately with the set up of this teams ownership/management/hiring practices, it's what's going to be needed to really send that message.

Lose, lose and keep losing until the staff says "Oh right, yeah we should probably change stuff."

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Oh great back to the arrogant thing.

I think you're taking that "thing" the wrong way. Arrogance is also thinking your way is going to work, eventually. If you're watching this season and ignored last season, then yeah I'd be hopeful too. But last year happened, this year seems to be a carbon copy of the same issues.

Let's wait another 82 games, a short off season, a lot of very good quotes of changes and then a repeat next year before this really phones in with some of you.

 

[Shady Machine]

I think you're taking that "thing" the wrong way. Arrogance is also thinking your way is going to work, eventually. If you're watching this season and ignored last season, then yeah I'd be hopeful too. But last year happened, this year seems to be a carbon copy of the same issues.

Let's wait another 82 games, a short off season, a lot of very good quotes of changes and then a repeat next year before this really phones in with some of you.

Okay. Last year's team was far from perfect and they made some critical errors in the playoffs, but they lost to the cup champs in 6 games and were mentally and physically exhausted. They look like a tire fire to start the year, but I'm going to be patient. If you want to call them arrogant, be my guest, but that's not what I see. I see a team not playing the way the coach wants them, not that they have a terrible system or a roster that can't play that way, but are stubbornly sticking to it. It's about execution for the most part.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Yes, I have to give Letang credit. He has been amazing in this very young season.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Okay. Last year's team was far from perfect and they made some critical errors in the playoffs, but they lost to the cup champs in 6 games and were mentally and physically exhausted. They look like a tire fire to start the year, but I'm going to be patient. If you want to call them arrogant, be my guest, but that's not what I see. I see a team not playing the way the coach wants them, not that they have a terrible system or a roster that can't play that way, but are stubbornly sticking to it. It's about execution for the most part.

No you're right, the team isn't playing the system properly.

How do you suppose they fix that. Because it seems painfully obvious to everyone except that team.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

It’s tough to watch what is happening with Kasperi Kapanen and not have Daniel Sprong in the back of my mind. Kapanen is on quite the hot streak right now. The biggest factor is he is on the same line as the hottest player in hockey, Auston Matthews. When Kapanen’s quality of teammate went up so did his production. He is a skilled player and when combined with other skilled players he can play to his strengths. Daniel Sprong playing with Matt Cullen is not going to cut it. He isn’t going to get time and space to do what he does best. Patric Hornqvist has one point in five games and was bumped from Sidney Crosby and Evgeni Malkin. He isn’t capable of making controlled plays on a regular basis. He is the road block to Daniel Sprong. Derick Brassard playing wing is the road block to having a third line center that can help players like Hornqvist and Sprong. Nothing about the current setup is maximizing the talents of the roster.

HockeyBuzz.com - Ryan Wilson - Former bad Penguin outplays current one

Ryan Wilson making sense?

 

[Riptide]

Agreed. I'm happy with the outcome. But I do think Sutter would have been a better long term option. All this scrambling for a 3rd C. Sutter better than Sheahan or Cullen right now.

Not a chance in hell. Sheahan is twice the player Sutter ever was. Why? Because Sheahan can play with his linemates - that's something that Sutter never managed to do - even when he had Malkin on his wing.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

HockeyBuzz.com - Ryan Wilson - Former bad Penguin outplays current one

Ryan Wilson making sense?

Like I said in the GDT...

Sprong is a shooter.
Sprong is on a line where he isn't the shooter and has to be a play-maker.

Put a player in a position to succeed that maximizes their strengths, not force them to play in a position to fix something they are average at and hope that they some how, maybe, just maybe, are able to use their strength with lesser means surrounding them.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Not a chance in hell. Sheahan is twice the player Sutter ever was. Why? Because Sheahan can play with his linemates - that's something that Sutter never managed to do - even when he had Malkin on his wing.

There's a reason why even the Canucks use him as a winger half the time. When Beagle is back, there's like a 95% chance he is back to playing wing because he sucks at being a proper center.

Nothing about the current setup is maximizing the talents of the roster.

There are many here that want to blame the players far more than the actual issues...but I suppose this is also the players fault for playing on lines they were told to in positions they aren't natural at.

Brassard on the 3C should be why we are a better team, moving him up to Sid's LW (while it has looked decent) does't fix anything but Sid's LW and holy f*** am I tired of catering to Crosby's needs when this team should be telling him listen, this is the best for the team, learn to f***ing play with these guys.

Malkin has to.

Keep Brassard on the 3C, use the actual f***ing depth properly.

 

[Shady Machine]

No you're right, the team isn't playing the system properly.

How do you suppose they fix that. Because it seems painfully obvious to everyone except that team.

I'm really not sure. There will come a time where we can question Sully's effectiveness of getting his message through, but I think it's still too early to question that. His player usage can be questioned, but again, it's early and he's getting a feel for new players and a new season. I give them until them 15 games before drawing major conclusions.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I'm really not sure. There will come a time where we can question Sully's effectiveness of getting his message through, but I think it's still too early to question that. His player usage can be questioned, but again, it's early and he's getting a feel for new players and a new season. I give them until them 15 games before drawing major conclusions.

I will agree to disagree with the excuses for last season and give you that 15 games and we will revisit this.

Until then...

 

[Honour Over Glory]

It always amuses me to read posts about how so and so can't put the puck in that players wheelhouse to score or they aren't using that players shot properly by putting them on that line, etc. And then you have Sprong, people actively try to come up with excuses to say he sucks and doesn't deserve a better chance and then there are those that want to see him in a better chance.

That same group will say last year was whatever.
But then use last year as to why Sprong got a chance in the top 6 and shouldn't get one again.

...

 

[Riptide]

No you're right, the team isn't playing the system properly.

How do you suppose they fix that. Because it seems painfully obvious to everyone except that team.

Well really there's only a few options. Either the team starts playing the system that Sullivan wants, or he changes the system to something they will play. If neither happen, then we're not going very far this season.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Well really there's only a few options. Either the team starts playing the system that Sullivan wants, or he changes the system to something they will play. If neither happen, then we're not going very far this season.

I mean, that's going to be tough either way when they can't even figure out how to ice the best line-up or anything near it to begin with.

 

[Andy99]

Well really there's only a few options. Either the team starts playing the system that Sullivan wants, or he changes the system to something they will play. If neither happen, then we're not going very far this season.

Well, this is my point....if 1) they’re ignoring Sully, can play his system well but they just don’t want to do, then he’s lost the team and he should be fired; or 2) they’re trying to play his aggresssive system but they can’t because they’re not fast enough or smart enough or whatever, compared to other opposing teams, to play what he wants to play effectively....if he doesn’t tweak the system, he should be fired....they were playing this way last year and everyone attributed it to PO fatigue, and I didn’t think so...I thought they were trying but they’re not as good at playing like 2016 as teams are defending against that system....Sully didn’t change the system then...he was outcoached by WSH too for the first time...this is all leading to inevitable conclusion that if the Pens want to give themselves the best chance to reach the SCF this season, they need to fire Sully....

 

[Bingo71]

There's a reason why you only ever see that in the playoffs. During the reg season if one guy is on the other guys will take it easy. This is not a young hungry team - we're simply not going to see that level of effort in October. But at the end of the day this core has earned that - until they really flame out in the playoffs (or actually miss them altogether) it'll be status quo.

I get it, to an extent, but the lazy play from the superstars has a trickle down effect on the young guys. If you’re a young player on the Pens and you watch guys like Sid and Geno loaf through games, commit bad turnovers and take stupid penalties and get away with it, while if you do that you get benched, there is a rift that develops. The veteran superstars need to be the catalyst that drives the rest of the team.

I’m not expecting them to go full throttle with playoff style hockey, but come on, at least make it look like you give a shit out there.

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

Ah, so it is a foot fetish thing?

Thanks...I needed that laugh today!