Post-Game Talk: Canucks 3, Penguins 2 (OT) - Sid Half Asses Another OT Change

[Gurglesons]

Well, this is my point....if 1) they’re ignoring Sully, can play his system well but they just don’t want to do, then he’s lost the team and he should be fired; or 2) they’re trying to play his aggresssive system but they can’t because they’re not fast enough or smart enough or whatever, compared to other opposing teams, to play what he wants to play effectively....if he doesn’t tweak the system, he should be fired....they were playing this way last year and everyone attributed it to PO fatigue, and I didn’t think so...I thought they were trying but they’re not as good at playing like 2016 as teams are defending against that system....Sully didn’t change the system then...he was outcoached by WSH too for the first time...this is all leading to inevitable conclusion that if the Pens want to give themselves the best chance to reach the SCF this season, they need to fire Sully....

The best part of takes like this is 95% of the time you can claim you were right because chances are we don’t reach the SCF. And even if we do and lose, it’s Sully’s fault!

 

[Andy99]

The best part of takes like this is 95% of the time you can claim you were right because chances are we don’t reach the SCF. And even if we do and lose, it’s Sully’s fault!

With the exception of 2017, we’ve won all of our Cups after having changed coaches....do you think that’s a fluke? I don’t....coaches have shelf lives....he needs to go...nothing personal on him...of course there’s never a guarantee of reaching the SCF but I like our odds better if a new voice was in the room...

 

[Gurglesons]

With the exception of 2017, we’ve won all of our Cups after having changed coaches....do you think that’s a fluke? I don’t....coaches have shelf lives....he needs to go...nothing personal on him...of course there’s never a guarantee of reaching the SCF but I like our odds better if a new voice was in the room...

Yes, I think it is a fluke.

Coaching has very little to do with our issues.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

The best part of takes like this is 95% of the time you can claim you were right because chances are we don’t reach the SCF. And even if we do and lose, it’s Sully’s fault!

How many years of not making it deep until it actually is?

Or are people going to continuously bring up the back to backs as the reason why we have no reason to doubt him, until enough years has passed and enough issues have come up where it's blatantly stupid to ignore?

Just curious because there seems to be a "limit" of time before we're allowed to criticize the almighty Saint Michael Sullivan.

 

[Riptide]

Well, this is my point....if 1) they’re ignoring Sully, can play his system well but they just don’t want to do, then he’s lost the team and he should be fired; or 2) they’re trying to play his aggresssive system but they can’t because they’re not fast enough or smart enough or whatever, compared to other opposing teams, to play what he wants to play effectively....if he doesn’t tweak the system, he should be fired....they were playing this way last year and everyone attributed it to PO fatigue, and I didn’t think so...I thought they were trying but they’re not as good at playing like 2016 as teams are defending against that system....Sully didn’t change the system then...he was outcoached by WSH too for the first time...this is all leading to inevitable conclusion that if the Pens want to give themselves the best chance to reach the SCF this season, they need to fire Sully....

Or perhaps the players stop playing like idiots? I mean Sullivan isn't telling Malkin to turn the puck over at the Pens blueline. Nor is he telling them that when they're all back, to completely ignore the open guy... This isn't "just a coaching issue". That's certainly part of it... but the players themselves need to play MUCH better then they have been.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Firing Mike Sullivan is insanely extreme at this juncture.

If you want to send a message, fire one of his assistants. Possibly Jacques Martin (in a "not fire but, move into a senior role" type of firing).

 

[vodeni]

Sutter is pretty mediocre. You’re judgement of hockey players is very.. different.

Hate Letang / Defend Sutter.

I thought we absolved Sutter's sucktitude long time ago

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Yes, I think it is a fluke.

Coaching has very little to do with our issues.

The idea of changing coaches is goofy, but I wouldn't go that far...

 

[Turin]

The Pens didn’t change systems when they went from the trash heap to being a legit contender again last January. They just started to finally give a damn and got some small roster help.

 

[Gurglesons]

The idea of changing coaches is goofy, but I wouldn't go that far...

Yeah, Sprong would prevent Crosby leaving the ice in OT and three forwards being behind or net / Jack Johnson being a Penguin.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Yeah, Sprong would prevent Crosby leaving the ice in OT and three forwards being behind or net / Jack Johnson being a Penguin.

If the lines weren't complete garbage we might just have been able to beat the powerhouse Petterson-less Vancouver Canucks in regulation. That seems like a reasonable expectation for this roster if it weren't deployed by man whose obstinacy has overridden his common sense.

 

[Gurglesons]

If the lines weren't complete garbage we might just have been able to beat the powerhouse Petterson-less Vancouver Canucks in regulation. That seems like a reasonable expectation for this roster if it weren't deployed by man whose obstinacy has overridden his common sense.

I know you are joking, but Vancouver is on a run right now.

The main issue last night was Jack Johnson as it will be every night for 5 years / until he is gone.

 

[Son Goku]

Jack Johnson sucks. That deal is gonna be a f***ing anchor.

 

[tyhee]

Not a chance in hell. Sheahan is twice the player Sutter ever was. Why? Because Sheahan can play with his linemates - that's something that Sutter never managed to do - even when he had Malkin on his wing.

There's a reason why even the Canucks use him as a winger half the time. When Beagle is back, there's like a 95% chance he is back to playing wing because he sucks at being a proper center.

The Canucks almost never use Sutter as a winger at even strength and haven't since they experimented with him in that position with the Sedins in 2015-16.

So far this season he is second among the Canucks in faceoffs taken, behind Horvat. That is the same as in 2016-17 and 2017-18, when he was second behind Horvat in faceoffs taken. Those faceoffs are not being taken as a winger. He's regularly lining up as a center.

Before the injuries to Pettersson and Beagle the Canucks' four centers were Pettersson, Horvat, Sutter and Beagle. Sutter both last season and this one has been used largely as a defensive center specialist. So far this season he's taken 72 faceoffs in the defensive zone for every 28 taken in the offensive zone (according to hockey-reference.com) which is less extreme than last season largely because Beagle now shares defensive zone starts.

Last season and so far this season he's played a defensive role and his wingers haven't been offensive stalwarts. Sutter is someone who can chip in a little bit on offence regardless of who he's playing with and he doesn't use snipers well anyway, so he's been fine in his recent role. He was poorly suited to be a linemate for Malkin or the Sedins.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I know you are joking, but Vancouver is on a run right now.

The main issue last night was Jack Johnson as it will be every night for 5 years / until he is gone.

That's not the main issue. The main issue is the nonsensical dog shit lines that don't make the most of our talent and make the bottom 6 a complete non-factor. That is within Sullivan's control and he's floundering.

At least Sullivan seems to have realized that Brassard on the wing is a bad idea because it decimates our depth. Hopefully he'll come around on the rest of the obvious stuff sooner rather than later, but he seems to need to be hit over the head with a few blunt object losses before he gets things.

 

[Turin]

Jack Johnson sucks. That deal is gonna be a ****ing anchor.

I’m sure Jim Benning will take him.