Canadian Team Executive says incompetence of Matthews Deal will affect the rest of the League

[Morlu]

I think most people agree the AAV isn’t bad but the term and signing bonuses on top, make the contract horrible. Now the Leafs have to play hardball with Marner who is probably their best player.

 

[LeafsNation75]

A decade ago. Why do you bring this up to more recent and pertinent RFA signings. IE Eichel and McDavid.

CBA has changed since then also. Seems rather desperate on your part to try to post from left field to defend Dubas here. When all know he was incompetent in making this signing.

You wanted to know which high profile RFA's only re-signed for 5 years after their ELC.

 

[TheDoldrums]

A decade ago. Why do you bring this up to more recent and pertinent RFA signings. IE Eichel and McDavid.

CBA has changed since then also. Seems rather desperate on your part to try to post from left field to defend Dubas here. When all know he was incompetent in making this signing.

I'm not defending Dubas here, merely the truth and the definition of "unprecedented."

 

[34]

I won’t even try and defend the Matthews contact at this point...it is not good. That being said, Dubas did not start this charade... it was Chiarelli with the $12.5M McDavid contract when Crosby was making $8.7M. That was the start of it all.

 

[LeafsNation75]

I won’t even try and defend the Matthews contact at this point...it is not good. That being said, Dubas did not start this charade... it was Chiarelli with the $12.5M McDavid contract when Crosby was making $8.7M. That was the start of it all.

Chiarelli also ruined it for everyone when he signed Draisaitl to that 8 year contract worth $8.5 million AAV. If that never happened chances are Nylander signs a lot earlier since he was using Draisaitl's contract for what he originally wanted.

Some people can also say Jason Botterill ruined it for other teams as well when he re-signed Jack Eichel to that 8 year contract worth $10 million AAV, since Eichel was coming off 56 points in 2016 and 57 points 2017.

 

[wingnutks]

Yeah, cool. Ill take 45-50 goals and 90 points from a center @ 11 mill all day everyday and not give it a second thought.

Maybe that lack of accomplishment has something to do with NYI icing hot garbage year after year, rather then JT being a lesser player?

Until the leafs make it to the second round... stones, glass house...

 

[krutovsdonut]

the only way to avoid this would have been to not sign tavares.

to be fair to dubas, look at the environment he is in trying to negotiate with these kids. the nhl cap just has no air of reality in toronto. leafs are at least on par with the nba and mlb teams in popularity yet the toronto star players in those other leagues make far more. the leafs are a revenue rich team that can clearly afford to pay these guys stupid money.

 

[Wats]

A decade ago. Why do you bring this up to more recent and pertinent RFA signings. IE Eichel and McDavid.

CBA has changed since then also. Seems rather desperate on your part to try to post from left field to defend Dubas here. When all know he was incompetent in making this signing.

So basically, we haven't seen it since a decade ago. Unprecedented since new CBA signed in 2013.

 

[Durrr]

Until the leafs make it to the second round... stones, glass house...

You guys had JT for years. Lets see what happens in his first and second year here, because I'd be legitimately shocked if we didn't win a round.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

So basically, we haven't seen it since a decade ago. Unprecedented since new CBA signed in 2013.

When you make a 21 yr old RFA that has a career high 69 pts the second highest paid player in the NHL. The least you should get in return is a 8 year contract. Not 5 year contract which is much more line to McDavid and Eichel and better for other GM's that sign deals in a more responsible manner. This is the only point worth noting. It was unprecedented Matthews walked away with everything worth noting in contract talks and it wasn't even at the deadline threashhold.

 

[Morbo]

Well if one has to go back to over a decade, then you made my point. What other player was made 2nd highest paid player in the NHL with a 5 year term as a RFA?

If by made you mean ruined, then yeah.

 

[Crede777]

I'm not so sure that the Matthews deal will cause disagreement within ownership as much as it will cause disagreement within the NHLPA.

For a long time, the understanding was that young players coming off an ELC were a bit underpaid so that older players who are UFA's can get overpaid.

There is a sizable group of players who in recent years took a hit on their 2nd or 3rd contracts which were negotiated while the player was an RFA. Now you want to tell them "oops sorry we are now spending money on young guys just coming off of ELC?" That may well cause a split within the player ranks between young guys who want to get paid for future performance and older guys who feel entitled to payment for past performance and who took a hit to make it that way.

 

[hotpaws]

Ah so you're just going to ignore everything I wrote. Okay then.

Also, the NHL has changed, you need to accept that. The 1st contract after ELC is becoming the last generations UFA contract, and rightfully so because the player is at their peak in their 20s and it's time the league pay structure started reflecting that to avoid the David Clarkson and Lucic deals.

i ignored nothing in your post and you were the one who brought up contracts from years ago to justify AM's contract and now contradicting yourself by saying we can't look at deals from years ago

i also mentioned we should look a recent comparable's none of which support your claim that AM didn't sign for above market

basically as i said , all you're doing is trying to spin his deal to defend Dubas , unfortunately for you the entire league believes he got bent over with the result being players are thrilled to use this deal as a comparable while GM's across the league can't believe he's such a weak bitch and now have to deal wit the fallout

 

[wingnutks]

You guys had JT for years. Lets see what happens in his first and second year here, because I'd be legitimately shocked if we didn't win a round.

All I am saying is I keep hearing how the Isles were total shit. Yet the Isles made the playoffs 3 of those years and once made it to the 2nd round. So.....

I would also be shocked if the Leafs dont win a round.

 

[Durrr]

i ignored nothing in your post and you were the one who brought up contracts from years ago to justify AM's contract and now contradicting yourself by saying we can't look at deals from years ago

i also mentioned we should look a recent comparable's none of which support your claim that AM didn't sign for above market

basically as i said , all you're doing is trying to spin his deal to defend Dubas , unfortunately for you the entire league believes he got bent over with the result being players are thrilled to use this deal as a comparable while GM's across the league can't believe he's such a weak ***** and now have to deal wit the fallout

I couldn't care less about defending Dubas, I just honestly don't think it's that poor of a contract after I looked at all the numbers and how I perceive Matthews when I watch him play. Would I rather have him on a discounted deal? Of course, but that's not the reality so I just accept it and move on.

I know enough to realize that 40+ goal centers are rare enough that you have to pay for one when you are lucky enough to draft him.

 

[Dotter]

I won’t even try and defend the Matthews contact at this point...it is not good. That being said, Dubas did not start this charade... it was Chiarelli with the $12.5M McDavid contract when Crosby was making $8.7M. That was the start of it all.

Chiarelli drafted and signed not only the best player in the world, but quite possibly the greatest player in Hockey history. That is a player you bend over backwards for. It's only fitting that Oilers had not only Gretzky, but now have McDavid who may surpass him, never in points (different hockey era), but possibly in shear greatness.

McDavid at 12.5 is steal.

 

[Captain Mountain]

How dare Toronto consider paying big money to one of the best players in the NHL. The nerve of them. Now teams can't get away with giving stupid contracts to guys like Zaitsev!

Obviously what they should of done is apply pressure and when a team offers Matthews a massive offersheet, take the 4 first rounders that will likely be in the middle/end of the first round and hope they can get an NHLer or two from them.

Anyways, this is a return to the Crosby/Malkin era of 2nd contracts.

 

[Leaf Fans]

Sounds like he might be on HF...fans who thought 6 for me-lander, 8 for Marner, and 10 for Matthews...the leafs need to win a round this year, cuz there window is moving, and not in the right direction.

The HF fans were closer.

 

[LeafsNation75]

When you make a 21 yr old RFA that has a career high 69 pts the second highest paid player in the NHL. The least you should get in return is a 8 year contract. Not 5 year contract which is much more line to McDavid and Eichel and better for other GM's that sign deals in a more responsible manner. This is the only point worth noting. It was unprecedented Matthews walked away with everything worth noting in contract talks and it wasn't even at the deadline threashhold.

So you would rather have seen Matthews re-sign on June 30, 2019 right before he could have become an RFA? If the idea is to re-sign RFA's before July 1 so they can not get an offer sheet, so shouldn't Dubas or any NHL GM make that happen?

You also seem to forget the report that if Matthews wanted to sign for 8 years he wanted north of $14 million and I'm sure you would think that contract would be just as bad or worse than the 5 years and $11.634 million AAV he signed for.

 

[mattydamon]

Not the greatest contract for AM, however playing in Toronto definitely plays a pretty major role in that. I really don't think he'd be on this contract if he were playing in most other cities.

The amount of coverage of the Leafs is insane - every move is under a microscope. The amount of hype for Toronto's saviour and the future 'face of the league' and constant early comparisons to Mcdaddy definitely bloated his worth to maybe a bit more than it was actually worth.

Still I think that just comes with the territory - yeah T.O might have to pay a bit more but there are lots of advantages playing for a big market team like this as well - whether it's sponsorships or fame or the chance at being a legend in the biggest hockey market in the world, you gotta take the good with the bad.

 

[LeafsNation75]

All I am saying is I keep hearing how the Isles were total ****. Yet the Isles made the playoffs 3 of those years and once made it to the 2nd round. So.....

I would also be shocked if the Leafs dont win a round.

The only reason the Islanders made it to the 2nd round was because of Tavares. After him they didn't have much of anything to be considered serious contenders.

 

[hotpaws]

I couldn't care less about defending Dubas, I just honestly don't think it's that poor of a contract after I looked at all the numbers and how I perceive Matthews when I watch him play. Would I rather have him on a discounted deal? Of course, but that's not the reality so I just accept it and move on.

I know enough to realize that 40+ goal centers are rare enough that you have to pay for one when you are lucky enough to draft him.

you said we can't look at deals from years ago but then tried to use some to justify your claim his deal was fair market value which it still didn't show

His cap hit should have been for a 8yr term , that's what the comparable's support . At a 5 yr term he should have been at most 10m per .

Of the players you brought up Kane and Toews were around 9m per after there elc's , Sid/Geno/Ovi all outperformed AM and should have had a higher(much higher) % of cap . Kopitar was mid 9's in today's cap hit on a 7 yr deal .

Dubas is an employee , he performance will be judged just like the players are . If he performs well he sticks around , if not , just the players he will be replaced . Spinning his incompetence doesn't make a person a good/real fan nor does it help the team in any way .

 

[LeafsNation75]

you said we can't look at deals from years ago but then tried to use some to justify your claim his deal was fair market value which it still didn't show

His cap hit should have been for a 8yr term , that's what the comparable's support . At a 5 yr term he should have been at most 10m per .

Of the players you brought up Kane and Toews were around 9m per after there elc's , Sid/Geno/Ovi all outperformed AM and should have had a higher(much higher) % of cap . Kopitar was mid 9's in today's cap hit on a 7 yr deal .

Dubas is an employee , he performance will be judged just like the players are . If he performs well he sticks around , if not , just the players he will be replaced . Spinning his incompetence doesn't make a person a good/real fan nor does it help the team in any way .

If Matthews did not want north of $14 million on a 8 year contract maybe he would have signed for 8 years.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

Frankly, I hope it screws every other team over.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Frankly, I hope it screws every other team over.

I'm sure when Dubas agreed to the contract he did not think about the other teams and how it will effect them.