Canadian Team Executive says incompetence of Matthews Deal will affect the rest of the League

[Durrr]

I am an Islander fan, and even I dont think JTs contract was bad. It is what it is, he was a UFA, its a free market. He probably could have even got more. Id rather have Mathews at 11M, but JT at 11M is not a terrible deal.

Yeah I agree. He got offered 13 mil by both the Islanders and Sharks, took 11. Hard to argue its a bad contract with his current production, even if it drops off into his 30s.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Just curious. Why do you do play this victimology card in every post?

None of this has to do with Dubas overpaying for Matthews, or Matthews not even throwing a bone to the Leafs in making his deal more team friendly.

The facts are Dubas caved in both deals to Nylander and Matthews, by the way 7M or .04 short of it at 6.96M not the 6.9M you wrote. Which both deals were front loaded. And it sure will have an impact on Marner's deal.

Neither player gave much back to their teams. A dangerous precedent. These were not player friendly contracts, everyone knows Dubas was weak as a negotiator. You don't have to be a huge fan of the Leafs which you are, or not. To see this.

My main point is still this. Just because Dubas has inflated RFA prices on his own team, does not mean other better negotiating GM''s have to follow suit. Dubas' overspending can be treated as an outlier.

If Dubas had caved to Nylander he would have given him the 8 years and $8.5 million AAV he was originally asking for.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Yeah I agree. He got offered 13 mil by both the Islanders and Sharks, took 11. Hard to argue its a bad contract with his current production, even if it drops off into his 30s.

Since Tavares is 5 years younger than Patrice Bergeron and his production has not dropped off, I think it's safe to say that Tavares will be fine when he's in his 30s.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Tavares, second (or in that ballpark) in goals in the NHL, on pace for 90+ points, is not one of the NHL's elite. You heard it here folks.

As of today Tavares is currently tied for 2nd in the NHL with 33 goals.

 

[Durrr]

Since Tavares is 5 years younger than Patrice Bergeron and his production has not dropped off, I think it's safe to say that Tavares will be fine when he's in his 30s.

Well you never know how someone will respond physically with age & wear and tear, but I tend to think we'll get value from the entire contract.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

If Dubas had caved to Nylander he would have given him the 8 years and $8.5 million AAV he was originally asking for.

What a player originally asks has no bearing on whether a deal is good or in this case bad. Do you understand this point? 8.5 is Draisaitl territory. He had 16 playoffs points in 13 games. Was a 77 pts player, and this year he has 32 goals, and 66 pts in 55 games. Has Nylander ever been close to this? If Dubas was a strong negotiator, he would have realised this was never a realistic ask. Nylander is similar to Ehlers(6), Larkin(6.1), or Teraveinen(5.4). Certainly is not as good as Pastranak at 6.67M. It was a cave.

 

[Yackiberg8]

But you are ignoring that the league is/has moved away from RFA deals being smaller the UFA deals. Does this not account for the 3% jump? If you look at how the league is trending, it absolutely does.

These guys were not treated as typical RFAs. All of them were immediately in the top 3 highest paid players in the league as soon as they signed their contracts.

Also RFA deals are still smaller than UFA deals, that is why Matthews contract would’ve been larger if he signed for 8 years.

 

[A1LeafNation]

Just like the way a team who can also offer no state tax are also not team based. That just happens to be a circumstance which can benefit them in negotiations.

It's not possible to figure out what state or province a team plays in?

 

[LeafsNation75]

Well you never know how someone will respond physically with age & wear and tear, but I tend to think we'll get value from the entire contract.

I completely agree. Like I said when you just factor in the age difference between Tavares and Bergeron and today Bergeron is still producing despite being 5 years older, Tavares should also be playing at the same level during the length of his contract.

 

[LeafsNation75]

What a player originally asks has no bearing on whether a deal was good. Do you understand this point? 8.5 is Draisaitl territory. He had 16 playoffs points in 13 games. Was a 77 pts player, and this year he has 32 goals, and 66 pts in 55 games. Has Nylander ever been close to this? If Dubas was a strong negotiator, he would have realised this was never a realistic ask. Nylander is similar to Ehlers(6), Larkin(6.1), or Teraveinen(5.4). Certainly is not as good as Pastranak at 6.67M. It was a cave.

I'm sorry but I disagree. You can say what you want which is always going to be anti Leafs which is what you are known to always do. To actually say Dubas caved when you look at Nylander's original asking amount of 8 years and $8.5 million which everyone including Leafs fans said was crazy to what he ended up signing for is not caving.

I will also ask this again but I'm not expecting you to answer it. Let's say hypothetically Matthews became an RFA and signed a 5 year offer sheet with an AAV of $11.364 million, would you say that's a bad deal for the GM who offered it to him? Everyone who hates Toronto like you wanted that to happen.

 

[Durrr]

What a player originally asks has no bearing on whether a deal is good or in this case bad. Do you understand this point? 8.5 is Draisaitl territory. He had 16 playoffs points in 13 games. Was a 77 pts player, and this year he has 32 goals, and 66 pts in 55 games. Has Nylander ever been close to this? If Dubas was a strong negotiator, he would have realised this was never a realistic ask. Nylander is similar to Ehlers(6), Larkin(6.1), or Teraveinen(5.4). Certainly is not as good as Pastranak at 6.67M. It was a cave.

PPG% wise during the ELC, he was actually right between Drasaitl and Pastranak. Doesn't have the playoff impact to date of course, but I don't think 7 is really that far off from his real value based on previous production. 6.6 was probably a good number, but going forward he can easily out earn this.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

I'm sorry but I disagree. You can say what you want which is always going to be anti Leafs which is what you are known to always do. To actually say Dubas caved when you look at Nylander's original which everyone including Leafs fans said was crazy to what he ended up signing for is not caving.

I will also ask this again but I'm not expecting you to answer it. Let's say hypothetically Matthews became an RFA and signed a 5 year offer sheet with an AAV of $11.364 million, would you say that's a bad deal for the GM who offered it to him? Everyone who hates Toronto like you wanted that to happen.

You can disagree, but the comparables that I listed all point to Nylander being overpaid. The fact he got rewarded holding out with a big signing bonus and the highest cap hit, indicates strongly Dubas caved. As for Matthews, it is unprecedented in making a RFA the second highest paid in hockey on a 5 year term. That's what the title of the thread says, and most posters know why it was a great contract for Matthews. He made zero concessions, it was totally player friendly, and not team friendly, incompetent as quoted NHL exec, to perhaps other NHL teams who have RFA's to sign.

 

[joplin]

Tavares, second (or in that ballpark) in goals in the NHL, on pace for 90+ points, is not one of the NHL's elite. You heard it here folks.

Zero Stanley Cups, zero WC medals, no individual awards
So yeah, enjoy him and his contract, it may come to haunt you

 

[Durrr]

Zero Stanley Cups, zero WC medals, no individual awards
So yeah, enjoy him and his contract, it may come to haunt you

Yeah, cool. Ill take 45-50 goals and 90 points from a center @ 11 mill all day everyday and not give it a second thought.

Maybe that lack of accomplishment has something to do with NYI icing hot garbage year after year, rather then JT being a lesser player?

 

[TheDoldrums]

As for Matthews, it is unprecedented in making a RFA the second highest paid in hockey on a 5 year term.

Wrong, again.

 

[Durrr]

You can disagree, but the comparables that I listed all point to Nylander being overpaid. The fact he got rewarded holding out with a big signing bonus and the highest cap hit, indicates strongly Dubas caved. As for Matthews, it is unprecedented in making a RFA the second highest paid in hockey on a 5 year term. That's what the title of the thread says, and most posters know why it was a great contract for Matthews. He made zero concessions, it was totally player friendly, and not team friendly, incompetent as quoted NHL exec, to perhaps other NHL teams who have RFA's to sign.

Malkin?

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Wrong, again.

Which other RFA is making 11.64M(2nd highest in the NHL) per for 5 years? Atleast Buffalo and Edmonton were smart to get 8 years from McDavid and Eichel. Right again!

Malkin?

Well if one has to go back to over a decade, then you made my point. What other player was made 2nd highest paid player in the NHL with a 5 year term as a RFA?

 

[LeafsNation75]

You can disagree, but the comparables that I listed all point to Nylander being overpaid. The fact he got rewarded holding out with a big signing bonus and the highest cap hit, indicates strongly Dubas caved. As for Matthews, it is unprecedented in making a RFA the second highest paid in hockey on a 5 year term. That's what the title of the thread says, and most posters know why it was a great contract for Matthews. He made zero concessions, it was totally player friendly, and not team friendly, incompetent as quoted NHL exec, to perhaps other NHL teams who have RFA's to sign.

I remember you saying Nylander's contract for this season would prevent Dubas from making any trades to improve the Leafs defense and yet he was still able to trade for Jake Muzzin. Just stop with all of your doom and gloom for the Leafs because in that one example Dubas proved you wrong.

Also you seem to forget that prior to the McDavid's, Eichel's and Draisaitl's signing 8 year contract extensions coming off their ELC deals, 5 years is what Crosby, Stamkos, Kane and Toews signed for after their ELC were finished. Plus they also re-signed with their current teams on their third NHL contracts.

 

[LeafsNation75]

@The Winter Soldier

I'm still waiting for your response about if Matthews became an RFA and signed the exact same 5 year contract via an offer sheet, if it still would have been a bad deal? I remember you wanted an offer sheet for him to happen and even mentioned San Jose as a possibility to give him one, even though you forgot they wouldn't have the 1st round picks available to make it happen.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

I remember you saying Nylander's contract for this season would prevent Dubas from making any trades to improve the Leafs defense and yet he was still able to trade for Jake Muzzin.

I don't remember every post word for word I make here, but given your misrepresentations of my posts here in the past. I would not have said this. Have no idea what context this is even related to for this thread?

What I said today was this. If you want to try to refute this. Let's have a discussion not on victimology but hockey facts as it pertains to recent RFA contracts. We know Eichel and McDavid signed more team friendly deals. They showed a commitment to both their franchises by signing long term. 10 and 12.5M each. Matthews signed in the middle. 11.64. He did not give up the slightest concession from his deal did he?

If I were a Leafs fan, I would ask this. Why Matthews got everything he asked for? He didn't help out the team with this contract. Totally player friendly deal on the selfish side. Didn't give anything to the team in return for signing early.

Got a big cap hit. 2nd highest in the NHL. Check
Got a big signing bonus. Check
Gave up only 1 UFA year. Check
Got a NT in his final year. Check

Looks like he got exactly what an Agent would ask for. Everything, and he turns UFA in 5 years time at 27. Check.

 

[LeafsNation75]

I don't remember every post word for word I make here, but given your misrepresentations of my posts here in the past. I would not have said this. Have no idea what context this is even related to for this thread?

What I said today was this. If you want to try to refute this. Let's have a discussion not on victimology but hockey facts as it pertains to recent RFA contracts. We know Eichel and McDavid signed more team friendly deals. They showed a commitment to both their franchises by signing long term. 10 and 12.5M each. Matthews signed in the middle. 11.64. He did not give up the slightest concession from his deal did he?

If I were a Leafs fan, I would ask this. Why Matthews got everything he asked for? He didn't help out the team with this contract. Totally player friendly deal on the selfish side. Didn't give anything to the team in return for signing early.

Got a big cap hit. 2nd highest in the NHL. Check
Got a big signing bonus. Check
Gave up only 1 UFA year. Check
Got a NT in his final year. Check

Looks like he got exactly what an Agent would ask for. Everything, and he turns UFA in 5 years time at 27. Check.

Believe me you used Nylander's contract as a reason why Dubas could not improve the Leafs this season due to him making $10.3 million AAV.

Also just because Matthews can become a UFA when his contract is over does not mean is he automatically going to leave Toronto? Kane and Toews re-signed with the Blackhawks 1 year before they could have become UFA's and Steven Stamkos re-signed with Tampa Bay a few days before he could have become a UFA..

 

[TheDoldrums]

Well if one has to go back to over a decade, then you made my point. What other player was made 2nd highest paid player in the NHL with a 5 year term as a RFA?

Actually your point was that it was "unprecedented" so finding any example defeats the argument.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Actually your point was that it was "unprecedented" so finding any example defeats the argument.

Comparables.

Eichel 10M for a max 8 years.
McDavid 12.5M for a max 8 years.

Matthews 11.64M 2nd highest cap hit in the NHL presently for 5 years as a RFA. Unprecedented it was not for more than just 5 years.

Totally player friendly contract. Not so much for the team.

Orr Group 1. Dubas 0

 

[TheDoldrums]

Matthews 11.64M 2nd highest cap hit in the NHL presently for 5 years as a RFA. Unprecedented it was not for more than just 5 years.

Crosby signed for 5 years as a RFA and had the highest cap hit in the league. Malkin signed a matching deal the next offseason. So no, not unprecedented no matter how many times you underline it.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Crosby signed for 5 years as a RFA and had the highest cap hit in the league. Malkin signed a matching deal the next offseason. So no, not unprecedented no matter how many times you underline it.

To be exact Crosby's second contract was 5 years at $43,500,000 million with the $8.7 million AAV.

Sidney Crosby - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Crosby signed for 5 years as a RFA and had the highest cap hit in the league. Malkin signed a matching deal the next offseason. So no, not unprecedented no matter how many times you underline it.

A decade ago. Why do you bring this up to more recent and pertinent RFA signings. IE Eichel and McDavid.

CBA has changed since then also. Seems rather desperate on your part to try to post from left field to defend Dubas here. When all know he was incompetent in making this signing.