Canadian Division (Canada Cup) Part IX

[RealisticLeaf55]

So if that were the case, I assume that you only watch one or zero football games a year?

When the Vikings are in the Superbowl (or not)?

Otherwise, it's meaningless, right?

I watch the season. If my team loses, still watch the playoffs and support my team. Just don't expect me to throw my finals appearances in the faces of others.

I see your attempt at desperately skewing my logic to suit your argument, but if we don't win. I look towards the next season and to the draft.

I won't call the season a win. That is for the champion for that season, and as such they should be respected as a champion. Only one team can win.

 

[Peggy]

I watch the season. If my team loses, still watch the playoffs and support my team. Just don't expect me to throw my finals appearances in the faces of others.

I see your attempt at desperately skewing my logic to suit your argument, but if we don't win. I look towards the next season and to the draft.

I won't call the season a win. That is for the champion for that season, and as such they should be respected as a champion. Only one team can win.

I unno. Final appearances are pretty important. You gotta win your conference to get there

I'd rather have "my" team make it to the finals than not at all.

4 finals appearances and a 1 cup is better than 1 cup and 1 final appearance

But of course 1 cup is better than 4 final appearances

 

[NyQuil]

I watch the season. If my team loses, still watch the playoffs and support my team. Just don't expect me to throw my finals appearances in the faces of others.

I get what you are saying, but it's also very easy to make these kinds of assertions in the absence of a recent real-life scenario.

I see your attempt at desperately skewing my logic to suit your argument, but if we don't win. I look towards the next season and to the draft.

I won't call the season a win. That is for the champion for that season, and as such they should be respected as a champion. Only one team can win.

There's definitely some skewing of logic going on. No one is going around calling themselves champions when they don't win the Cup.

Is winning in the playoffs entertaining? Of course it is. It's more fun than winning in the regular season.

If you are emotionally capable of taking every single positive memory from a playoff run and burning it to ash the second they are ousted, I don't know whether to pity you or be impressed.

For my part, I enjoy the good with the bad. When I was a lot younger, I spent a lot more time being angry at losing in the post-season.

 

[LEAFSANDBILLSFAN]

I would say watching the Bills make it to the AFC Championship game meant a lot to me and was not just another season were they failed to reach the SuperBowl.

Still think people are petrified of the Leafs winning the North Division, and that's why we're seeing; well Leafs are playoff chokers, and what have the Leafs won recently type posts. The Leafs finishing 1st, followed by winning the North Playoff Rounds is becoming an uncomfortably close reality for a lot of Leafs haters.

Not saying they will or even favored to do so. Just that its not a far fetch scenario at this point.

 

[Eat The Rich]

Huh? The Leafs haven't gone passed the first round since Winnipeg has returned

Not a fair way to compare success when the Jets were gone for 15 years

If anything that amplifies the lack of success.

I'm strictly talking about success since 93-94. The fact there was no team for 15 of those years means Jets fans had even less to cheer about than anyone else.

 

[NyQuil]

I would say watching the Bills make it to the AFC Championship game meant a lot to me and was not just another season were they failed to reach the SuperBowl.

Still think people are petrified of the Leafs winning the North Division, and that's why we're seeing; well Leafs are playoff chokers, and what have the Leafs won recently type posts. The Leafs finishing 1st, followed by winning the North Playoff Rounds is becoming an uncomfortably close reality for a lot of Leafs haters.

Not saying they will or even favored to do so. Just that its not a far fetch scenario at this point.

Whenever people bring up the past to try and undermine the present, it means they don't have any relevant ammunition that is currently applicable.

Relying exclusively on past results to predict the future is silly.

St. Louis and Washington couldn't win a Cup until they did. Joel Quenneville was a choker until he wasn't.

But if you are absolutely convinced that the Leafs will lose in the playoffs, just wait and see, and you will be proven right in time.

I'm not a huge fan of the Leafs but that doesn't mean I have to turn my brain off and not admit that they are having a strong season to date.

I do think that winning the division puts even more pressure on a team that already has to deal with a lot, but maybe it's incremental because the need to make it deep at this point is so high that it doesn't really make a difference if they are in the top spot or not.

By the same token, attempting to undermine the past by bringing up the present doesn't make a lot of sense either. But it's not relevant in a discussion about the current strength of teams.

 

[JustAHabFan]

A lot of argument about recent playoff success for Canadian teams. The simple fact remains: The Habs was the last Canadian team to win the Stanley Cup in 1993.

 

[NyQuil]

A lot of argument about recent playoff success for Canadian teams. The simple fact remains: The Habs was the last Canadian team to win the Stanley Cup in 1993.

That is just sad at this point, especially when you consider that Canadian teams have been in the Finals 5 times since then.

As a collective group, that’s worse than the Bills.

 

[Essenege]

Whenever people bring up the past to try and undermine the present, it means they don't have any relevant ammunition that is currently applicable.

Relying exclusively on past results to predict the future is silly.

St. Louis and Washington couldn't win a Cup until they did. Joel Quenneville was a choker until he wasn't.

But if you are absolutely convinced that the Leafs will lose in the playoffs, just wait and see, and you will be proven right in time.

I'm not a huge fan of the Leafs but that doesn't mean I have to turn my brain off and not admit that they are having a strong season to date.

By the same token, attempting to undermine the past by bringing up the present doesn't make a lot of sense either. But it's not relevant in a discussion about the current strength of teams.

I’d be pretty happy as a Leaf fan to see all these “past playoff performances” arguments. This means there’s not much argument against them this year. With cause.

Improved depth
Improved defence
Less chances allowed means they rely more on 5v5, less on PP which bodes well for them comes playoff time.

Digging through their stats though, looks like opposing teams still get a lot of good looks lately, but Campbell has 10 goals saved above expected! Heck he’s fourth league wide in that metric with only 9 GP! 1 less GA every game definitely boosts your fortune, explaining in part the recent streak. Can he keep that up?

 

[JustAHabFan]

That is just sad at this point, especially when you consider that Canadian teams have been in the Finals 5 times since then.

As a collective group, that’s worse than the Bills.

Yes. Almost 30 years and 7 Canadian teams could not manage to get another Cup. And we called hockey as our main sport? Failure at a colossal magnitude.

 

[Cotton]

Yes. Almost 30 years and 7 Canadian teams could not manage to get another Cup. And we called hockey as our main sport? Failure at a colossal magnitude.

That’s not a failure, Canada and the US have no place in the conversation to feel pride or shame because we are apart of a league.

 

[jeffff]

Yes. Almost 30 years and 7 Canadian teams could not manage to get another Cup. And we called hockey as our main sport? Failure at a colossal magnitude.

maybe you should go through the Stanley Cup winning teams and tell us how many of them are made up of Canadian players.

 

[Lshap]

This thread continues to be great.

So far I’ve learned from:

1. Leafs fans who say that playoff series wins don’t matter.

2. Habs fans who say that OT and shootout points don’t matter.

3. Jets fans who say that Corsi, Expected Goals and high danger chances against don’t matter.

4. Oilers fans who say that depth doesn’t really matter.

5. I assume that Flames, Canucks and Sens fans are fairly uniform in saying that this season no longer really matters.

All of these contentions coming from a place of objective analysis.

Have to appreciate a post that democratically disses everyone and ends with a great punchline.

 

[ToDavid]

One successful year doesn’t outweigh the decades of failure

Which column is "decades of failure" in the standings? I'm having trouble finding it.

 

[Cotton]

One successful year doesn’t outweigh the decades of failure

There is no decades of failure from this team, that’s what a scorched earth rebuild is - they fired and replaced something like 95% of their stuff 5-6 years ago and completely rebuilt. It wasn’t just a few trades and some draft picks, they fired the GM, assistants and 16 scouts on day one, then continued tearing it down and making better hires. Instilled a new culture and re-brand.

This Leafs club bares no relation or responsibility for those “decades of failure”, in fact this one is something like 7th league wide in winning percentage over the past 5 seasons, and 5 seasons is as far back as this club can be criticized. Anything more is “loLz LeAvEz sUcK” nonesense.

 

[Jaytee]

This thread continues to be great.

So far I’ve learned from:

1. Leafs fans who say that playoff series wins don’t matter.

2. Habs fans who say that OT and shootout points don’t matter.

3. Jets fans who say that Corsi, Expected Goals and high danger chances against don’t matter.

4. Oilers fans who say that depth doesn’t really matter.

5. I assume that Flames, Canucks and Sens fans are fairly uniform in saying that this season no longer really matters.

All of these contentions coming from a place of objective analysis.

This is the best post I have ever read on a hockey forum!

Well done!!

 

[Mats13]

A lot of argument about recent playoff success for Canadian teams. The simple fact remains: The Habs was the last Canadian team to win the Stanley Cup in 1993.

How many players from the 93 season are still playing? You must be really excited about them potentially winning again.

 

[libertarian]

I watch the season. If my team loses, still watch the playoffs and support my team. Just don't expect me to throw my finals appearances in the faces of others.

I see your attempt at desperately skewing my logic to suit your argument, but if we don't win. I look towards the next season and to the draft.

I won't call the season a win. That is for the champion for that season, and as such they should be respected as a champion. Only one team can win.

While I understand your logic I could never look at my team the Jets like you do. Winning the SC is the goal every year but it can not be the only way to judge your teams success.

When the Jets made it to the WCF I viewed the 17/18 season a success on a couple of levels. The first was just the team making it to the final 4 was awesome, no Jet team 1.0 or 2.0 had ever made it past the 2nd round so to see some PO success was awesome. Having a PO run last more then a week was a new experienced for me and it was so much fun.

On another level I consider the 17/18 season a success for the Jets player development. The Jets young core at that time gained some very valuable experience on what it take to win in the PO's which can only help for any future success. After all how many times did the Bolts and Caps blow it in the POs before they finally won it all. Were all those "failed" PO years wasted since both team's curent core finally did win the cup? In other words any PO success is a great learning experience for your teams future success.

Lastly I love hockey and my team so even a small amount of success in any given year always gives me hope for "next year"

 

[JianYang]

That is just sad at this point, especially when you consider that Canadian teams have been in the Finals 5 times since then.

As a collective group, that’s worse than the Bills.

They all lost in 7 games too with the exception of Ottawa , which is kind of mind blowing in itself.

 

[Hollywood3]

It does a very good job of predicting goal differential for most teams over a large enough sample.

But if you don’t like the stat, let me phrase it another way for you.

Jets have a 48%CF which is not that bad BUT a 43.5% high danger chance for. They give a lot of high quality chances...that are saved at a high rate by Helle.

Oh, btw...

Ranking expected goal diff 5v5

1. Colorado
2. Montréal
3. NYI
4. Toronto
5. Carolina

Ranking actual goal diff

1. Colorado
2.Montréal
3.NYI
4.Toronto
5. TBL

It does a fine job

In the end, all that matters (after wins & losses) is goals for and against. To add "expected" adds nothing to the analysis.

 

[Three On Zero]

There is no decades of failure from this team, that’s what a scorched earth rebuild is - they fired and replaced something like 95% of their stuff 5-6 years ago and completely rebuilt. It wasn’t just a few trades and some draft picks, they fired the GM, assistants and 16 scouts on day one, then continued tearing it down and making better hires. Instilled a new culture and re-brand.

This Leafs club bares no relation or responsibility for those “decades of failure”, in fact this one is something like 7th league wide in winning percentage over the past 5 seasons, and 5 seasons is as far back as this club can be criticized. Anything more is “loLz LeAvEz sUcK” nonesense.

Stepping it up and the post season is what really matters, that’s someone the leafs haven’t been able to achieve. No one talks about how many times a team has been good in the regular season

 

[Three On Zero]

Which column is "decades of failure" in the standings? I'm having trouble finding it.

Right beside the “we do good in the regular season, but have no idea what to do in the post season” column

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

How many players from the 93 season are still playing? You must be really excited about them potentially winning again.

I think two of them are playing on the Leafs' 4th line.

 

[ToDavid]

Right beside the “we do good in the regular season, but have no idea what to do in the post season” column

So equally imaginary?

 

[JustAHabFan]

How many players from the 93 season are still playing? You must be really excited about them potentially winning again.

Still much better than winning the last Cup from 1967. I wonder if you saw the Leafs raised the Cup? At least I saw the Habs raised the Cups in both 1986 and 1993.