Player Discussion Can Lucic bounce back? Part II

[bobbythebrain]

Hopefully Looch reads these boards.

Please retire...do the right thing

That play today where he hit the breaks and turned only to have a 3rd pair dman skate up and take the puck as if were a pass was utterly embarrassing.

Hang them up

 

[Tyrolean]

Having him in the lineup is like playing with one less player.

 

[BigFuzzyDice]

To address the title of the thread .

Yes, much like in the stock market, if you drop a dead cat from.high enough it will indeed bounce

 

[GodPucker]

The only thing that is bouncing is the puck over his stick all game.

 

[rickysusedsht]

On the IR for what? He has no injury.

Seemed like had or has a back issue but I may have mis read that somewhere. Would like to know what the leafs did with lupul

 

[BudBundy]

What angers me most isnt that he is slow, bobbles the puck, and shoots muffins. What upsets me most is that he never ever really engages anymore. Sure, if a hit is there, he will take it (which seldom happens) but when is the last time he bullied anybody? He was a constant menace in Boston (at least in his early years) and now he is just content to skate up and down his wing like its a drill. When he is the net front guy on the PP he is three feet in front of the blue paint going in this cute semi-circle around the goalie. Chiasson plants his ass in the goalies grill and stays there, and takes the abuse. Others teams are smart enough to leave a sleepy bear alone. It’s up to our bear to play like a grizzly with a sore dink. And no, shoving some fourth line loser Sunqvist into the boards from behind isnt how its done. His hockey skills have eroded, the game has quickened as he has slowed, but on top of it all he has decided not to do what he is still capable of doing. The Chiarelli gift that keeps on giving.

 

[frag2]

What angers me most isnt that he is slow, bobbles the puck, and shoots muffins. What upsets me most is that he never ever really engages anymore. Sure, if a hit is there, he will take it (which seldom happens) but when is the last time he bullied anybody? He was a constant menace in Boston (at least in his early years) and now he is just content to skate up and down his wing like its a drill. When he is the net front guy on the PP he is three feet in front of the blue paint going in this cute semi-circle around the goalie. Chiasson plants his ass in the goalies grill and stays there, and takes the abuse. Others teams are smart enough to leave a sleepy bear alone. It’s up to our bear to play like a grizzly with a sore dink. And no, shoving some fourth line loser Sunqvist into the boards from behind isnt how its done. His hockey skills have eroded, the game has quickened as he has slowed, but on top of it all he has decided not to do what he is still capable of doing. The Chiarelli gift that keeps on giving.

Guy has checked out since last year. When you ask for a trade, your mind is already made. Plus, he's getting paid so he dgaf.

Guy is cancer on the team IMO. Plus, what does it tell the rest of the team when this guy has an A and is supposed to be a leader but dogging it.

 

[Husker Du]

Guy has checked out since last year. When you ask for a trade, your mind is already made. Plus, he's getting paid so he dgaf.

Guy is cancer on the team IMO. Plus, what does it tell the rest of the team when this guy has an A and is supposed to be a leader but dogging it.

Personally I’ve never felt he was dogging it because of the money or because he wants to move. I think he is so overwhelmed by the rapid erosion of his skills that he is struggling to process everything. I was at the game yesterday and was gobsmacked by his inability to touch the puck. It’s been bad for 1.5 years but yesterday was unreal. His hands have abondoned him and they aren’t coming back. For someone with his level of success it must be shattering to realize this.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

Seemed like had or has a back issue but I may have mis read that somewhere. Would like to know what the leafs did with lupul

He has a hunched back but you can’t out someone on IR just because of that. It’s wishful thinking.

 

[BudBundy]

Personally I’ve never felt he was dogging it because of the money or because he wants to move. I think he is so overwhelmed by the rapid erosion of his skills that he is struggling to process everything. I was at the game yesterday and was gobsmacked by his inability to touch the puck. It’s been bad for 1.5 years but yesterday was unreal. His hands have abondoned him and they aren’t coming back. For someone with his level of success it must be shattering to realize this.

So why not man up and get in the game in other ways? Facewash somebody. Bump their goalie. Pick on somebody to the point they have to fight. Doughty elbows McDavid in the face, you beat the crap out of him, and if Doughty wont fight, you elbow Kopitar in the face and make sure Doughty knows why it happened. Make a bee-line to the net every shift, drag a defender with you and create some room for somebody. His straight-line speed is still adequate and he is still ridiculously big and strong. Impose your will instead of sulking about how what youve done the last two years isn’t working anymore.

 

[Husker Du]

So why not man up and get in the game in other ways? Facewash somebody. Bump their goalie. Pick on somebody to the point they have to fight. Doughty elbows McDavid in the face, you beat the crap out of him, and if Doughty wont fight, you elbow Kopitar in the face and make sure Doughty knows why it happened. Make a bee-line to the net every shift, drag a defender with you and create some room for somebody. His straight-line speed is still adequate and he is still ridiculously big and strong. Impose your will instead of sulking about how what youve done the last two years isn’t working anymore.

These are all fair points, although I would point out he is 3rd or 4th in hits this year. If he was doing the things you mention he would be a much more valuable player, no doubt. My point above was that I don’t believe he is dogging because of money or wanting to be traded, rather he is flummoxed by his skills disappearing. Same effect in his game, but different reason for it.

I should add that if he was doing the things you highlighted, he would be sought after by other gm’s. Overpaid still, but with retention he could be easily moved, imo. Not that I would condone what Boston or Backes have done, but if he committed to being a more belligerent player, in the ways you mention, he would be very valuable for a playoff team.

 

[Stoneman89]

Personally I’ve never felt he was dogging it because of the money or because he wants to move. I think he is so overwhelmed by the rapid erosion of his skills that he is struggling to process everything. I was at the game yesterday and was gobsmacked by his inability to touch the puck. It’s been bad for 1.5 years but yesterday was unreal. His hands have abondoned him and they aren’t coming back. For someone with his level of success it must be shattering to realize this.

Great post, totally agree. People need to stop with the nonsense that his back is bad, he doesn't care or he's waiting to be traded. If his back was so bad, I doubt he'd come close to some of the thundering hits he makes (albeit the little times he does make them). I think he cares deeply and is crushed by how bad he's been, but cannot do a damned thing about it. Can't even skate well enough to keep up with today's warp speed, can't move quickly enough to be the most physical player he can be, can't goon it up as much as he'd like to because of the passive rules. I don't like giving him a pass because of his play, but I think he probably realizes he's now in over his head and he can only make the best of it. And that contract just sticks out like a sore thumb. I just hope they "hide" him in the most effective way possible to get us through the point where he could somehow be moved.

 

[Porkleaker]

Personally I’ve never felt he was dogging it because of the money or because he wants to move. I think he is so overwhelmed by the rapid erosion of his skills that he is struggling to process everything. I was at the game yesterday and was gobsmacked by his inability to touch the puck. It’s been bad for 1.5 years but yesterday was unreal. His hands have abondoned him and they aren’t coming back. For someone with his level of success it must be shattering to realize this.

From what I recall, didn't he avoid working on his skating and skills last summer and focused on the "mental aspect" of his game instead? If that's the case then no wonder. Guy needs some serious training and coaching this summer, in fact they should demand it or press box him for the season until he asks for a trade. He's more of a hindrance than an asset.

 

[yukoner88]

I remember years ago iginla dropped 20ish pounds so he could regain some foot speed and to make it easier to maintain a high fitness level, as he was in his 30s and recognized the speed of the game picking up.

Lucic is currently listed at a weight of almost 240lbs, so I kinda wish someone in the org would approach him to get him to lose 20-30lbs this off season and simultaneously work on his skating to make things easier on him as he gets older.

 

[BlackDogg]

Any chance he has some condition or disease such as Parkinson's etc that might affect his play and would we know this until after?

 

[rickysusedsht]

Going to need a master gm to figure out a way to move him . if he is struggling this bad with his game then he wouldnt be much help in the room either. Someone mentioned a Wilson type player but I'm not sure he is close to that level of play.

 

[Tyrolean]

I am sure he means well, but the fact is that he is hurting the team. Cap space and player wise. This team cannot afford this type of player and play for much longer. I think best that the new GM talk it over with him and try either to trade him or buy him out or get him to retire on LTIR.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

I am sure he means well, but the fact is that he is hurting the team. Cap space and player wise. This team cannot afford this type of player and play for much longer. I think best that the new GM talk it over with him and try either to trade him or buy him out or get him to retire on LTIR.

Everyone who says get him to retire on LTIR....offer up a reasonable explanation as to how or why. He is not injured. He has not suffered a long term injury.

You can’t buy him out. In year 2 and 4 of the buyout his salary cap hit is nearly 6 million. Then we get 4 more years of a roughly 650k cap hit. 8 years he would be on the books. Cheaper to retain 50% and call it the Chia tax for 4 more years.

Best thing to do IMO is bite the bullet hard and offer up whatever it takes in picks to move him after his July 1 bonus kicks in.

Work a 3rd team in to lessen the blow on retention.

 

[Stoneman89]

Everyone who says get him to retire on LTIR....offer up a reasonable explanation as to how or why. He is not injured. He has not suffered a long term injury.

You can’t buy him out. In year 2 and 4 of the buyout his salary cap hit is nearly 6 million. Then we get 4 more years of a roughly 650k cap hit. 8 years he would be on the books. Cheaper to retain 50% and call it the Chia tax for 4 more years.

Best thing to do IMO is bite the bullet hard and offer up whatever it takes in picks to move him after his July 1 bonus kicks in.

Work a 3rd team in to lessen the blow on retention.

I agree with you on the buy out part but strongly disagree with moving any valuable assets to get him off the books. If it’s a 3rd and 5th while retaining some salary, that's fine but about as far as I’d go.
We’ve spent too much time on the hamster wheel trying to correct earlier mistakes by making more.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

I agree with you on the buy out part but strongly disagree with moving any valuable assets to get him off the books. If it’s a 3rd and 5th while retaining some salary, that's fine but about as far as I’d go.
We’ve spent too much time on the hamster wheel trying to correct earlier mistakes by making more.

But then your stuck with him. Can’t LTIR him. Can’t buy him out.

I know what your saying but in this case I think you have to cringe and move the player. We gain cap space and it’s addition by subtraction.

 

[Stoneman89]

But then your stuck with him. Can’t LTIR him. Can’t buy him out.

I know what your saying but in this case I think you have to cringe and move the player. We gain cap space and it’s addition by subtraction.

If i have to take one of 2 poison pills, I cringe, bite the bullet, and try to make him a semi useful bottom 6 player until such time a reasonable trade offer can be made ( if ever) where the pieces going the other way are not crippling or we can buy him out without being massacred for many years. He’s not going to agree to LTIR. It’s ugly, I know, but Chia has really backed us to the edge of a cliff.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

If i have to take one of 2 poison pills, I cringe, bite the bullet, and try to make him a semi useful bottom 6 player until such time a reasonable trade offer can be made ( if ever) where the pieces going the other way are not crippling or we can buy him out without being massacred for many years. He’s not going to agree to LTIR. It’s ugly, I know, but Chia has really backed us to the edge of a cliff.

I think that time is July 2020 after his 4th SB is paid. He’s then owed only 10m on an 18m cap hit over 3 years. Means we have him 1 more year.

 

[bobbythebrain]

Personally I’ve never felt he was dogging it because of the money or because he wants to move. I think he is so overwhelmed by the rapid erosion of his skills that he is struggling to process everything. I was at the game yesterday and was gobsmacked by his inability to touch the puck. It’s been bad for 1.5 years but yesterday was unreal. His hands have abondoned him and they aren’t coming back. For someone with his level of success it must be shattering to realize this.

Great post. This is what I see aswell.

 

[bobbythebrain]

*

 

[Tyrolean]

I think that time is July 2020 after his 4th SB is paid. He’s then owed only 10m on an 18m cap hit over 3 years. Means we have him 1 more year.

Yea, 1 more year is the breaking point. Anything can happen though. I'd PB him for the next year and let him collect is salary sitting out.