Prospect Info: Cale Makar - D [4th Overall] Part III: Not A Prospect Edition

[AvsCOL]

So when can we call Makar generational

(kidding)

 

[Balthazar]

I'd argue peak Forsberg was probably the greatest player I've ever seen.

Greater than peak Mario?

Not counting Lemieux I'd say objectively peak Lindros followed closely by peak Forsberg for me. Pre-concussions Lindros was a different kind of animal.

 

[henchman21]

Greater than peak Mario?

Not counting Lemieux I'd say objectively peak Lindros followed closely by peak Forsberg for me. Early Flyers Lindros was a different kind of animal.

I'm not old enough to have seen peak Lemieux.

 

[BrickNHL]

I'm not old enough to have seen peak Lemieux.

You're pretty old though

 

[The Abusement Park]

The first avalanche game I went to was in 2000 against the Pens. I wish I wasn’t 6 when I was at that game, because seeing Mario’s comeback, Jágr, Sakic, Foppa, Roy, Bourque, Kovalev, Blake would’ve been incredible had I been able to appreciate it like I could now.

 

[AvsCOL]

I can't post this enough times. Absolutely incredible game from Makar. A glimpse of what's to come hopefully.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

Entertaining watch. Youtuber reacts to some plays from Hughes and Makar this year and makes a Calder prediction.

 

[Nabrules]

Entertaining watch. Youtuber reacts to some plays from Hughes and Makar this year and makes a Calder prediction.

Either is definitely deserving and if Makar wins than good on him but the guy who made this video got one part wrong. Hughes wasn’t the better second half player “just because Makar was injured”. Hughes was for sure better than Makar December onward, all the numbers show it! That doesn’t mean that Makar doesn’t deserve it since he was better the first 2.5 months of the season.

 

[Barklez]

 

[Nabrules]

I can definitely see why the “average” fan seems to think Makar is the better player. He’s likes to speed the game up which brings a more dynamic element, while Hughes slows the game down and brings about a more cerebral game. Right now I would say Makar is better offensively, and Hughes defensively.

Earlier in the year I would get so upset when I saw people saying Makar was better than Hughes but now I realize they’re both fantastic players and whoever wins the Calder has earned it.

 

[Barklez]

I can definitely see why the “average” fan seems to think Makar is the better player. He’s likes to speed the game up which brings a more dynamic element, while Hughes slows the game down and brings about a more cerebral game. Right now I would say Makar is better offensively, and Hughes defensively.

Earlier in the year I would get so upset when I saw people saying Makar was better than Hughes but now I realize they’re both fantastic players and whoever wins the Calder has earned it.

On the other hand, the majority of hockey experts - such as yourself - polled by Lebrun, preferred Makar’s defensive game over Hughes‘.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

I can definitely see why the “average” fan seems to think Makar is the better player. He’s likes to speed the game up which brings a more dynamic element, while Hughes slows the game down and brings about a more cerebral game. Right now I would say Makar is better offensively, and Hughes defensively.

Earlier in the year I would get so upset when I saw people saying Makar was better than Hughes but now I realize they’re both fantastic players and whoever wins the Calder has earned it.

It’s not just the “average” fan that thinks Makar is better. Eleven Western Conference team executives were asked who they thought was better and 10 of them picked Makar and one said it was too close to say.

Both deserve to be in the conversation for the award. I think it would have been firmly Makar if he had been healthy, but I can see an argument to pick Hughes given the time Makar missed.

 

[McMetal]

It's kind of crazy to me to think that no matter what happens, a rookie winger who scored 30 goals will be a distant third in the Calder voting.

 

[Nabrules]

On the other hand, the majority of hockey experts - such as yourself - polled by Lebrun, preferred Makar’s defensive game over Hughes‘.

If they actually looked at the numbers they would see Hughes had a better two way impact than Makar, while playing tougher and more minutes too.

 

[Nabrules]

It’s not just the “average” fan that thinks Makar is better. Eleven Western Conference team executives were asked who they thought was better and 10 of them picked Makar and one said it was too close to say.

Both deserve to be in the conversation for the award. I think it would have been firmly Makar if he had been healthy, but I can see an argument to pick Hughes given the time Makar missed.

I guess it’s everyone who enjoys the more dynamic fast paced game, me included so I can see why they also said Makar.

I guess we’ll agree to disagree there. Hughes was better than Makar mid December onwards in my opinion. Offensively and defensively, not just Makar couldn’t stay healthy.

 

[TheRarestDangles]

I guess it’s everyone who enjoys the more dynamic fast paced game, me included so I can see why they also said Makar.

I guess we’ll agree to disagree there. Hughes was better than Makar mid December onwards in my opinion. Offensively and defensively, not just Makar couldn’t stay healthy.

Makar >> Hughes

 

[Emell]

If they actually looked at the numbers they would see Hughes had a better two way impact than Makar, while playing tougher and more minutes too.

Whenever people start citing numbers they don’t understand themselves and clearly only heard third hand, that’s when it becomes time to start ignoring their take

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

If they actually looked at the numbers they would see Hughes had a better two way impact than Makar, while playing tougher and more minutes too.

And yet they all had access to those numbers along with likely more in depth numbers(What we fans have access to is an absolute joke compared to what coaching staff and management have access to just fyi) and still suggested Makar was stronger.



Even I'm not totally convinced that Cale is better defensively(I would give a the edge to Hughes tbhThough I definitely think he will be soon) at the moment, but when it goes almost unanimously among coaches it becomes pretty tricky to argue against that.

 

[Goulet17]

Greater than peak Mario?

Not counting Lemieux I'd say objectively peak Lindros followed closely by peak Forsberg for me. Pre-concussions Lindros was a different kind of animal.

I'm old enough to have watched Lemieux and Gretzky in their primes. In my opinion, Lemieux is the best player I have seen. He was the most physically gifted hockey player with perhaps the highest hockey IQ (at least close to or on the same level as Gretzky). I love Foppa, but I would not put him on the same level as Lemieux and I am unabashedly a Foppa fan boy. I would not put McDavid on the same level as Lemieux, not even remotely close. I wish others on this board had the opportunity watch him in his prime and healthy (big issue for Lemieux). I compare him to Michael Jordan when Michael Jordan came into the NBA and how he looked compared to the other players (they came into their respective professional leagues at roughly the same time).

Wayne Young played on Lemieux's wing in the 80s and Lemeiux turned him into a 50 goal scorer one season. Young was a journeyman NHL player at best (I realize that it was a different era in terms of scoring).

Regarding Lindros, I would put him second behind Lemieux in terms of being the most physically gifted hockey player that I have watched. As you mentioned, I think people forget how good he was early on in his career and his level of dominance. In terms of power forwards, he was the prototype and we likely will never see anyone approaching him in that regard. It was as if he was designed in a lab.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Gord Miller voted Hughes
Pierre McGuire voted Makar

 

[BaconNater]

Gord Miller voted Hughes
Pierre McGuire voted Makar

Pierre loves him some Avs players, especially Makar haha.

Saw a tweet that Pierre said on TV or radio or whatever that Quinn Hughes will have the Canadian media bias that might help him win.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

If they actually looked at the numbers they would see Hughes had a better two way impact than Makar, while playing tougher and more minutes too.

I like how underlying numbers mean more than point and PPG totals these days.

For as much as people like to knock Makar’s defensive game, he was was on the ice for 57 goals for and 36 goals against at 5-on-5 this season.

Hughes 5V5 numbers aren’t as good, but Vancouver was also a worse even strength team, so it’s not really a fair comparable. Much like using Hughes stats relative to his teammates isn’t a fair comparable, because Colorado is just better than Vancouver.

I think they have similar upside moving forward. Hughes was drafted a year earlier, Makar is the more raw player with a unique level of athleticism.

The power play will be a big part of this discussion in years that follow. Hughes was awesome on the power play this year and that reflected in his point total. If the Avs continue to struggle on the PP it will limit Makar’s overall production. That’s on Makar to get better in that area too, but if they can become a top-10 power play it will take his point totals to another level.

 

[Ararana]

Pierre loves him some Avs players, especially Makar haha.

Saw a tweet that Pierre said on TV or radio or whatever that Quinn Hughes will have the Canadian media bias that might help him win.

Which is kind of funny because Hughes is an American and Makar is the Canadian.

 

[Nabrules]

I like how underlying numbers mean more than point and PPG totals these days.

For as much as people like to knock Makar’s defensive game, he was was on the ice for 57 goals for and 36 goals against at 5-on-5 this season.

Hughes 5V5 numbers aren’t as good, but Vancouver was also a worse even strength team, so it’s not really a fair comparable. Much like using Hughes stats relative to his teammates isn’t a fair comparable, because Colorado is just better than Vancouver.

I think they have similar upside moving forward. Hughes was drafted a year earlier, Makar is the more raw player with a unique level of athleticism.

The power play will be a big part of this discussion in years that follow. Hughes was awesome on the power play this year and that reflected in his point total. If the Avs continue to struggle on the PP it will limit Makar’s overall production. That’s on Makar to get better in that area too, but if they can become a top-10 power play it will take his point totals to another level.

I definitely agree it’s not fair to knock Makar’s defensive game, it’s not poor, I just think Hughes is better at this point. People do the same with Hughes where they just assume he’s not good on his own zone because he’s 5’10.

Like I said before they’re both great defensemen who deserve the Calder. Whoever wins should be proud

 

[Foppa Frossa]

Is Makar going to be the highest paid Av on his new contract? I don't think so, personally. I think he'll land just a hair over 8M