C/W Jesperi Kotkaniemi - Ässät, Liiga (2018, 3rd, MTL)

[Saxon]

Does he have any shot at making the Habs next year?

Let's say hypothetically he does make the Habs roster next season. Can he do it as a C?

As a Hab fan I hope not..... And it's the Habs.....I could probably play C there.......

 

[jfhabs]

I think Zadina was probably the best player at the time of the draft, but knowing Kotka is 8 months younger I totally understand how management believe he can surpass or equal Zadina's level during the next 8months and more. I'm happy with the pick.

Does anyone knows if he'll play center next year in Finland?

 

[TheFinnishTrap]

I think Zadina was probably the best player at the time of the draft, but knowing Kotka is 8 months younger I totally understand how management believe he can surpass or equal Zadina's level during the next 8months and more. I'm happy with the pick.

Does anyone knows if he'll play center next year in Finland?

That’s the plan.

 

[Ippenator]

Not really true though. Barkov made Nieminen shine for the last time. VN was barely averaging 0,5ppg in a second-rate league in Allsvenskan the year before. Then with Barkov he magically scored PPG+ and the very next year without Barkov VN scored barely 0,4ppg. Quite telling

A bit lopsided and manipulated examples. Nieminen was already for sure on a decline, so it was anyway expected that his stats would rather be getting worse year by year. And of course it was easy to guess that his production would decrease when he lost the nice chemistry and skills that he had with a teammate like Barkov.

But if you want to twist and turn stats just think of it how it went with Laine and Barkov with their last Liiga seasons and first NHL seasons. Barkov’s last Liiga season 53 games, 21+27=48 and Laine’s last Liiga season 46 games, 17+16=33. Then lets see their first NHL seasons - Barkov 54 games, 8+16=24 and Laine 73 games, 36+28=64.

So Laine scored a whopping 40 points more than Barkov in their NHL rookie seasons despite Barkov scoring just the previous season in Liiga 15 points more than Laine did in his previous season in Liiga.

Now someone could even dare to suggest that Ville Nieminen’s meaning for Barkov’s great production in Barkov’s last Liiga season was after all HUGE. And anyway definitely much bigger than some of the people here are willing to admit after all. And the clearly inflated stats that Barkov had in his last Liiga season point out also that the production difference between him and Kotkaniemi wouldn't have been most probably so big if Barkov was playing with the much weaker linemates that Kotkaniemi was playing with in his last Liiga season.

Kotkaniemi’s production (29 points) wasn't after all much worse than Laine’s (33 points), which in my opinion is very encouraging, as they both had an injury that made their last Liiga season clearly more challenging physically. So I think that Jesperi can improve a lot in the similar way as Laine did for his next season.

Oh, but there seems to be like quite a manipulation of stats earlier in my post, and we don’t want to do that here, do we? Oh, but someone just did that before me, so I just thought I would show how this can be after all turned around if people want to play that game really.

 

[1972]

3 weeks ago I laughed at the though of him going third, now? I think the Canadians got an absolute stud.

The more I learned about him the more I saw the high end playmaking ability, that’s what you want out of that number one centre. Be patient, you have a player.

 

[le_sean]

3 weeks ago I laughed at the though of him going third, now? I think the Canadians got an absolute stud.

The more I learned about him the more I saw the high end playmaking ability, that’s what you want out of that number one centre. Be patient, you have a player.

I love when my team goes for a late birthday that is also a late riser in the draft. I want to see actual progression from not only previous seasons, but the same one as well.

 

[Maitz]

I don’t get why we are still debating on Barkov and Kotkaniemi, clearly Barkov is the better player at the same age. I just wish the best for Kotka and to be a #2C will be ok for me, the kid has a lot of raw potential.

 

[Ippenator]

I don’t get why we are still debating on Barkov and Kotkaniemi, clearly Barkov is the better player at the same age. I just wish the best for Kotka and to be a #2C will be ok for me, the kid has a lot of raw potential.

Better? Sure. A lot better? No. And a worse skater than Kotkaniemi at the same age definitely. I see it quite possible that Kotkaniemi's ceiling is at least relatively close to prime Barkov. That is of course a completely different story, if he will ever reach that ceiling.

 

[KevSkillz4]

I think he is Elias Pettersson of this draft.

 

[Stive Morgan]

I think he is Elias Pettersson of this draft.

Don't want to get too cocky but that's what I'm feeling too tbh.

 

[Mrb1p]

Better? Sure. A lot better? No. And a worse skater than Kotkaniemi at the same age definitely. I see it quite possible that Kotkaniemi's ceiling is at least relatively close to prime Barkov. That is of course a completely different story, if he will ever reach that ceiling.

Its nice to see that JK produced at a better rate than Barkov at ES too. Theres some potential to this kid and a lot of people are sleeping on him or wont address because hes now a Hab.

 

[NotProkofievian]

Its nice to see that JK produced at a better rate than Barkov at ES too. Theres some potential to this kid and a lot of people are sleeping on him or wont address because hes now a Hab.

We don't actually know if he produced at a better rate: Liiga doesn't have TOI stats for his years. Barkov produced 2 more points at ES in his draft year, though, so we can only guess at his rate.

edit: If he played more than 15:59 of even strength ice time, then his rate was lower than Jesperi's. If he played 15:58 or less, it was more.

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

Contextualizing Kotkaniemi: How does his draft year stack up against other top Finnish prospects?

 

[Scuba-Steve]

Contextualizing Kotkaniemi: How does his draft year stack up against other top Finnish prospects?

Wow great read!

 

[Mrb1p]

We don't actually know if he produced at a better rate: Liiga doesn't have TOI stats for his years. Barkov produced 2 more points at ES in his draft year, though, so we can only guess at his rate.

edit: If he played more than 15:59 of even strength ice time, then his rate was lower than Jesperi's. If he played 15:58 or less, it was more.

Hmmm. I was sure the numbers were better for Kotka, I might be confusing Barkov with another high end Finn, Laine?

 

[Ippenator]

Hmmm. I was sure the numbers were better for Kotka, I might be confusing Barkov with another high end Finn, Laine?

But I’m at least quite sure that Barkov did play at least close to the same of ES minutes, or most probably even more. He was playing in Tappara’s 1st line while Kotkaniemi was mostly in 2nd or 3rd line. I’m pretty sure that Kotkaniemi’s ES production was in fact at least a bit better than Barkov’s then. Barkov was very efficient especially on the PP where Kotkaniemi was unfortunately really bad in fact.

Anyway I do see that Kotkaniemi has some chances of becoming a very good center in the NHL and I wouldn't write off the possibility of him becoming a center of even Barkov’s class. But as I have mentioned it before, it’s not a likely scenario, but if all goes really well with his development, there could be some chances of even that happening.

 

[Mrb1p]

But I’m at least quite sure that Barkov did play at least close to the same of ES minutes, or most probably even more. He was playing in Tappara’s 1st line while Kotkaniemi was mostly in 2nd or 3rd line. I’m pretty sure that Kotkaniemi’s ES production was in fact at least a bit better than Barkov’s then. Barkov was very efficient especially on the PP where Kotkaniemi was unfortunately really bad in fact.

Anyway I do see that Kotkaniemi has some chances of becoming a very good center in the NHL and I wouldn't write off the possibility of him becoming a center of even Barkov’s class. But as I have mentioned it before, it’s not a likely scenario, but if all goes really well with his development, there could be some chances of even that happening.

Yeah well, chances are always slim of being a PPG player unless your an exceptional prospect.

 

[NotProkofievian]

Hmmm. I was sure the numbers were better for Kotka, I might be confusing Barkov with another high end Finn, Laine?

Yes, his ES draft year numbers were better than everyone on record except Roope Hintz. You could have been thinking of Rantanen, Laine, Pulju any of them.

 

[Baksfamous112]

Does he have any shot at making the Habs next year?

Let's say hypothetically he does make the Habs roster next season. Can he do it as a C?

We’ll see how he performs at camp. Imo, if they kept him in Montreal to train with Drouin and Pacioretty, put on a couple of pounds and do great during camp, they might keep him for 9 games (on an extended period, skipping games here and there while still training with the team) and then send him back to Finland, like they did with Sergachev, it might be good for his development

 

[Chadstudsky]

We’ll see how he performs at camp. Imo, if they kept him in Montreal to train with Drouin and Pacioretty, put on a couple of pounds and do great during camp, they might keep him for 9 games (on an extended period, skipping games here and there while still training with the team) and then send him back to Finland, like they did with Sergachev, it might be good for his development

I disagree, i hope he goes back to Finland right away and takes his place at center, and not arrive late in the season and try to dislodge one of their existing centers. He wasnt the sexy pick, but our head scout said how 8 months can make a difference at that age. Plus, he looks like a young boy. I think he has tons of room to mature. Over the years I've criticized our management for taking the seemingly safe pick, and I'm glad this Year they've decided to swing for the fences. It's risky, but I'm a risk taker. I like our draft this year.

 

[Mrb1p]

I disagree, i hope he goes back to Finland right away and takes his place at center, and not arrive late in the season and try to dislodge one of their existing centers. He wasnt the sexy pick, but our head scout said how 8 months can make a difference at that age. Plus, he looks like a young boy. I think he has tons of room to mature. Over the years I've criticized our management for taking the seemingly safe pick, and I'm glad this Year they've decided to swing for the fences. It's risky, but I'm a risk taker. I like our draft this year.

Shit Id say this is the sexiest pick the Habs could make. Maybe behind Boq and Hug

 

[Chadstudsky]

**** Id say this is the sexiest pick the Habs could make. Maybe behind Boq and Hug

Let me clarify, to me the safe pick was tkachuk, the sexy pick was zadina, and the swing for the fences was kotkaniemi. He's sexy in his own right. But like that flames pick a few years back, i forget his name, its a swing for the fences

 

[schnapshot]

Let me clarify, to me the safe pick was tkachuk, the sexy pick was zadina, and the swing for the fences was kotkaniemi. He's sexy in his own right. But like that flames pick a few years back, i forget his name, its a swing for the fences

Probably talking about Jankowski. Except he was a long, long term project.

We’ll see how he performs at camp. Imo, if they kept him in Montreal to train with Drouin and Pacioretty, put on a couple of pounds and do great during camp, they might keep him for 9 games (on an extended period, skipping games here and there while still training with the team) and then send him back to Finland, like they did with Sergachev, it might be good for his development

Yeah, like Galchenyuk94 said, he should really just go back to Finland to train and be ready to play as Assat's (hopefully) number one center.

 

[lawrence]

I think he is Elias Pettersson of this draft.

As in he will lead the league in playoff and regular season points and set records and be named mvp in the regular season and playoffs ? Or as in he should be drafted higher ?

 

[Kudo Shinichi]