C/W Jesperi Kotkaniemi - Ässät, Liiga (2018, 3rd, MTL)

[Kaako Kappo]

We don't know that 10 teams had him as #5, thats just his conclusion from surveying 10 scouts. Also we don't know what the other 20 scouts had him at. It could be higher or lower. Given his ranking from other sources, it would be more logical to infer he is a reach pick than a concensus #3 pick.

https://www.tsn.ca/kc-1.1115400 - references his survey of 10 scouts.

More reliable than amateur scouting sites, though.

 

[JeffreyLFC]

Kotkaniemi has been on my radar for a long time. I had Kotkaniemi as the top rated center since November.

At first, before the wjc 18 and draft lottery, I wanted us to trade Pacioretty as bait to get another 1st and draft Kotkaniemi. (around the 10th to 12th overall selection). Just before the lottery I thought that if the habs slid in position I would have no issue drafting Kotkaniemi with our 1st pick (lowest we could drop was 7th overall FYI)

The habs ended up with the 3rd overall. I never wanted Zadina or Tkachuk. I wanted Dobson/Wahlstrom/Kotkaniemi/Hughes with the 3rd overall pick. I was obviously supporting trading down a few position and getting Kotkaniemi. It became obvious that Detroit were also highly interested in Kotkaniemi too so the lowest we could drop was 5th overall.

Now Arizona trade down scenario collapsed and surprise Arizona selected Hayton another center my feeling is that Arizona also wanted Kotkaniemi and if the habs did trade down they would have miss on their top target.

Kotkaniemi was going to be drafted top 6 overall even if the habs passed on him. I do believe that.

The habs did select him 3rd overall and people can claim it was a reach based on draft publication (not actual NHL teams) I do think there is no way he would have passed 10th overall in every fantasy world.

Now only the future will tell us if its a good selection or not. But the "reach" comments irk me a bit as Kotkaniemi was highly regarded by many NHL teams. It was also getting obvious that Zadina was not the unanimous 3rd best player. Heck Ottawa and Arizona also passed on Zadina.

 

[tfong]

More reliable than amateur scouting sites, though.

I mean ISS (depending whether or not you consider them amateur, I wouldn't think so as I do consider them paid professionals at their jobs.) but NHL Central Scouting only had him as the 6th in EU so that in itself is pretty far from #3 overall.

 

[HOPE]

Like I said that's fair. But just like how the fans i know don't represent all Habs fans, you are your own individual. That's why I didn't say "all fans". Just specifically the ones i know personally. Its not that I don't like the pick, I think the Habs made a correct pick. But That doesn't mean I don't think its still a reach pick given the risk of the pick.

100%. But the reason it's not realy a reach for my personnal opinion is every player after 2 came with their own risk as none of them are NHL ready exept maybe Tkachuk ( wich his risk is his ceilling isn't realy high as we speak, still very young anything can change) after that all these players had their things to work on, Why not for the youngest guy who plays center and had a terrific progression against man? everyone was a reach after 2. Zadina at 200lbs one of the oldest of his draft, ELITE nhl wrister already, but cant win a single 1v1 battle around the boards with that physique against 16-21 year old is concerning to me... Just like i stated above with tkachuk, they are all very young and everything can change. But to me Zadina was a realy bad fit with Montreal, he does not make people good around him, he's a complimentary player who needs a guy to feed him and thats fine and that might end up being a very good fit with Larkin there and possibly a first pass guy like veleno, But tell me who would have fed Zadina in Montreal? it's a win win situation for everyone!

 

[tfong]

100%. But the reason it's not realy a reach for my personnal opinion is every player after 2 came with their own risk as none of them are NHL ready exept maybe Tkachuk ( wich his risk is his ceilling isn't realy high as we speak, still very young anything can change) after that all these players had their things to work on, Why not for the youngest guy who plays center and had a terrific progression against man? everyone was a reach after 2. Zadina at 200lbs one of the oldest of his draft, ELITE nhl wrister already, but cant win a single 1v1 battle around the boards with that physique against 16-21 year old is concerning to me... Just like i stated above with tkachuk, they are all very young and everything can change. But to me Zadina was a realy bad fit with Montreal, he does not make people good around him, he's a complimentary player who needs a guy to feed him and thats fine and that might end up being a very good fit, with Larkin there and possibly a first pass guy like veleno, But tell me who would have fed Zadina in Montreal? it's a win win situation for everyone!

Semi-joking but Zadina in his interview did say that Montreal (or was it an unnamed team) asked if he could play center So I mean in an alternate reality it could be Zadina feeding someone else instead

 

[gifted88]

McKenzie had him @5 because 10 teams had him in their top 5ish. His list is based on head scouts lists.

Sorry to **** on your narrative.

Your not shitting on anything. The question was raised, who had him outside the top 10. Bob McKenzie's lists are great and I definitely weigh his list higher than most. It's not my opinion that some scouting services had him outside the top 10, that information is out there for everyone to see. The question should've been "where did Bob McKenzie have him ranked" if you don't approve of the other rankings.

 

[Mrb1p]

I see the "I read rankings online" is in full force ITT..

 

[tfong]

Your not ****ting on anything. The question was raised, who had him outside the top 10. Bob McKenzie's lists are great and I definitely weigh his list higher than most. It's not my opinion that some scouting services had him outside the top 10, that information is out there for everyone to see. The question should've been "where did Bob McKenzie have him ranked" if you don't approve of the other rankings.

Sucks when people move goal posts on you right?

 

[HOPE]

Semi-joking but Zadina in his interview did say that Montreal (or was it an unnamed team) asked if he could play center So I mean in an alternate reality it could be Zadina feeding someone else instead

I mean everything is possible with this management at the moment. thats the scary part! Them drafting Kotkaniemi and going hard on centers at the draft is one of the only thing im happy about.

But you also have to think about how would Kotkaniemi performed in the CHL? we will never know. Once again, not a Knock on Zadina but look at his draft-1 year he played against men for 25 Match in the czech league, only 2 points... Kotkaniemi had 29 in 57 in his draft year, but he's draft year is only 3 month older than Zadina's Draft-1! it's realy tough to gauge! in a perfect world every drafted players play in the same league, you would see alot less "steals". Zadina was the "sexiest goal scoring pick" Kotkaniemi was the pick with higher risk but could return the best reward! thats how i see it. Maybe Kotkaniemi won't adapt to NA ice, wich zadina did with ease in his style of game! Time will tell, look at our last years first round pick Ryan Poehling, nothing is sure right now, but at the camp he was a completely different player than last year, he was a men amongs kids and he was FAR from being the youngest.

 

[tfong]

I mean everything is possible with this management at the moment. thats the scary part! Them drafting Kotkaniemi and going hard on centers at the draft is one of the only thing im happy about.

But you also have to think about how would Kotkaniemi performed in the CHL? we will never know. Once again, not a Knock on Zadina but look at his draft-1 year he played against men for 25 Match in the czech league, only 2 points... Kotkaniemi had 29 in 57 in his draft year, but he's draft year is only 3 month older than Zadina's Draft-1! it's realy tough to gauge! in a perfect world every drafted players play in the same league, you would see alot less "steals". Zadina was the "sexiest goal scoring pick" Kotkaniemi was the pick with higher risk but could return the best reward! thats how i see it. Maybe Kotkaniemi won't adapt to NA ice, wich zadina did with ease in his style of game! Time will tell, look at our last years first round pick Ryan Poehling, nothing is sure right now, but at the camp he was a completely different player than last year, he was a men amongs kids and he was FAR from being the youngest.

Sorry to inform you but Jonatan Berggren is going to be the best center from this draft

 

[Captain Mountain]

Who cares where he was ranked? Hell, where a player is drafted should stop mattering right after the draft.

 

[Mrb1p]

Sorry to inform you but Jonatan Berggren is going to be the best center from this draft

Yeah if you think Berggren is a center you haven't been following much.

 

[tfong]

Who cares where he was ranked? Hell, where a player is drafted should stop mattering right after the draft.

I mean you don't have to join the discussion if you don't want to. We're just talking about whether or not Kotka's hype reflects his rankings and draft position. Nobody is making you care about it.

 

[HOPE]

Sorry to inform you but Jonatan Berggren is going to be the best center from this draft

yeah was pretty mad at the wings when they drafted him, Pretty happy with ylonen tho! too bad Berggren is a Winger!

Wish we could of drafted him at 35 and ylonen at 38

Berggren - Kotkaniemi - Ylonen

 

[tfong]

Yeah if you think Berggren is a center you haven't been following much.

Pretty sure I had a smiley face in that post

 

[Captain Mountain]

I mean you don't have to join the discussion if you don't want to. We're just talking about whether or not Kotka's hype reflects his rankings and draft position. Nobody is making you care about it.

I wasn't joining a conversation, I quoted nobody. I was just offering an opinion.

 

[tfong]

yeah was pretty mad at the wings when they drafted him, Pretty happy with ylonen tho! too bad Berggren is a Winger!

Wish we could of drafted him at 35 and ylonen at 38

Berggren - Kotkaniemi - Ylonen

Not sure what Kotka's nickname will be but "Yolonen" needs to be a thing.

 

[tfong]

I wasn't joining a conversation, I quoted nobody. I was just offering an opinion.

Alright I'll bite and say thats fair. An opinion of opinions

 

[The Great Weal]

Not sure what Kotka's nickname will be but "Yolonen" needs to be a thing.

It's Yolo. Kotkaniemi is either eagle or we do the Gob chicken dance by chanting "KOTKA KOTKA KOTKA".

 

[HOPE]

It's Yolo. Kotkaniemi is either eagle or we do the Gob chicken dance by chanting "KOTKA KOTKA KOTKA".

yep, thats already his nickname! lol'd at the chicken thing tho

 

[tfong]

Wait someone explain the eagle nickname to me please.

 

[HOPE]

Wait someone explain the eagle nickname to me please.

Kotka means eagle in finns, not much to it haha

 

[ijuka]

Wait someone explain the eagle nickname to me please.

His last name translates to something like "Eagle cape" - cape as in promontory

 

[RageQuit77]

Kotkaniemi ->

'kotka' = eagle
'niemi' = cape/peninsula

"Eagle" nic comes naturally from his surname in Finnish

 

[Captain Mountain]

Wait someone explain the eagle nickname to me please.