C/W Jesperi Kotkaniemi - Ässät, Liiga (2018, 3rd, MTL)

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RageQuit77

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Jan 5, 2016
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Wondering (and nit-picking) now what would be most literal and proper English translation for "Kotkaniemi".

'Eagle's cape' would be 'kotkanniemi'.
'Eagles' cape' would be 'kotkien niemi' or 'kotkainniemi'
'Cape of Eagle' would be 'kotkan niemi'

closest it goes apparently if translated as

'Cape Eagle', the form that would be used for a cape named after eagle(s) living/nesting there.

Add: note also that there are synonym 'kokko' in Finnish meaning 'kotka' too, but also 'a bonfire' during the mid summer festivities. 'Niemi' is apparently ancient loan word to northern branch of Baltic-Finnic languages from some unknown, now extinct northern paleo/proto-European language (that was not either Indo-European nor Uralic language) as the word and it's etymology cannot be found or tracked across Uralic language-family. There are lot of capes in Finland with geography of hundreds of thousand lakes and rather fragmented coastal areas of the country. Niemi is very common surname or part of surnames.

/mildly off-topic. Hopefully he'll make a career! :thumbu:
 
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Andrei79

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Jan 25, 2013
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A number of teams having him as #5 is very different from him being projected as the #3 pick.

You have to realize how much the narration changed between the season's end(When the players no longer played any games) and after Habs got #3 on the lottery. Kotkaniemi started shooting up in the rankings significantly after that lottery result - Most likely because these scouts and talking heads caught wind of Habs contemplating on picking him #3. But go ahead and take a look at the rankings before the lottery took place and see where Kotkaniemi was.

I said teams had him in the top 5. Big difference. And why the hell would a bunch of head scouts change their rankings because of the Habs ? That makes no damn sense. They each have their own preferences, especially when drafting that high.

Atually, nilan tried to bait Tim Burke into saying Kotkaniemi was a reach... to no avail, quite the opposite. So we know of at least 2 head scouts who don't think so. We know that 8 out of 10 of the scouts Bob polls are head scouts, and their opinions had him top 5.

Again, it's like we have to repeat everything all the time: The U18s took place, the combine did as well, teams met and made their final rankings. A lot of significant things actually happened.

And that's besides the point, where is the reach:

1. 6'2" center.
2. Diverse and high end offensive skillset.
3. 7th all time 17 yo season in Liiga history (Zadina, at the same age, was struggling to put up a point against men).
4. Dominated his peers.

5 players had runs with historic implications this year (top 10 in their leagues, playoffs or, in Svech's case, comparable goal scoring to some high end former 1st OA picks): Dahlin, Svechnikov, Kotkaniemi, Wahlstrom and Kravtsov. So, no shit, the top center gets picked top 3. This is a surprise only to those who followed rankings, instead of the actual players.
 

Favster

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Jul 21, 2013
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That's very different from him being projected as a #3 pick.

What was different about this draft is that there was no consensus #3. Outside of 1-2, everybody's list was different so technically, there was no reach from 3-10. If anybody reached, it was Phoenix because he wasn't in the "consensus" 3-10 group. I don't blame them, I think Hayton is a good player.
 

ijuka

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May 14, 2016
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What was different about this draft is that there was no consensus #3. Outside of 1-2, everybody's list was different so technically, there was no reach from 3-10. If anybody reached, it was Phoenix because he wasn't in the "consensus" 3-10 group. I don't blame them, I think Hayton is a good player.
Zadina was the consensus #3.

Consensus doesn't mean unanimous.
 

bigdog16

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Nov 7, 2013
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By the time the U18’s came around Zadina was definitely not the consensus #3. I probably saw just as many lists with him not at 3, than him at 3. Kot is an interesting one, i wouldnt say he “dominated” his peers, but he did show really well against and with them. People are setting their expectations way too high if you think he’s a surefire 1C.
 
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Brodeur

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Feb 27, 2002
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Gare Joyce wrote a book where he got to ride shotgun with Columbus during the scouting prep for the 2006 and 2007 Drafts. Regarding Central Scouting's final rankings, he wrote something to the effect of "People in the NHL respect the job Central does with limited resources, but teams generally disregard their final rankings." Central releases their final rankings in early April and typically there's a few players who have big U18 tournaments in mid-April which vault them up the charts.

The Hockey News' rankings are usually curious to say the least. While I'll still pick up the issue every year, they publish it relatively early when there's still going to be movement in the rankings. For my keeper league, if you aren't present for the draft and forgot to send in a list ahead of time, you get assigned THN's list. This is usually a deterrent since their list is usually outdated by the time June rolls around. Unfortunately I accidentally slept in for my 2011 Draft and got autodrafted with Zack Phillips who THN had #9 for some ungodly reason. But like I said, I still enjoy the draft preview as a cheap reference but I know that their rankings are far from perfect.

That's typically why Bob McKenzie's early June survey is usually more accurate than Central/THN which are compiled in early April.
 

ottawa

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I mean you don't have to join the discussion if you don't want to. We're just talking about whether or not Kotka's hype reflects his rankings and draft position. Nobody is making you care about it.


He's right though...who gives a flying f*** about his ranking. Go spam in another thread, this is about Kotkaniemi not debating which draft rankings is the most accurate.

You're clogging this up and making people read this stupid childish shit you guys are spewing when they came to read about Kotkaniemi.
 
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Haatley

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Jun 9, 2011
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He's right though...who gives a flying **** about his ranking. Go spam in another thread, this is about Kotkaniemi not debating which draft rankings is the most accurate.

You're clogging this up and making people read this stupid childish **** you guys are spewing when they came to read about Kotkaniemi.
What exactly is childish about answering someones question with pristine accuracy?

You swear and whine but at least I am contributing to a conversation about the player. How are you being productive?
 

ijuka

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May 14, 2016
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Well, using @manny_hockey's league conversion factors(like NHLe), I'll check how Kotkaniemi compares to the top 5 forwards picked:
Andrei Svechnikov: 20.8p in 82 games
Jesperi Kotkaniemi: 19.6p in 82 games
Filip Zadina: 18.6p in 82 games
Brady Tkachuk: 10.9p in 82 games
Barrett Hayton: 12.3p in 82 games

So in that light Kotkaniemi's draft season should have been the best(at that draft slot), using his NHL conversion factors.
 

ottawa

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Well, using @manny_hockey's league conversion factors(like NHLe), I'll check how Kotkaniemi compares to the top 5 forwards picked:
Andrei Svechnikov: 20.8p in 82 games
Jesperi Kotkaniemi: 19.6p in 82 games
Filip Zadina: 18.6p in 82 games
Brady Tkachuk: 10.9p in 82 games
Barrett Hayton: 12.3p in 82 games

So in that light Kotkaniemi's draft season should have been the best(at that draft slot), using his NHL conversion factors.

Where did you get the league conversion factors? curious to see it.
 

Haatley

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Jun 9, 2011
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Well, using @manny_hockey's league conversion factors(like NHLe), I'll check how Kotkaniemi compares to the top 5 forwards picked:
Andrei Svechnikov: 20.8p in 82 games
Jesperi Kotkaniemi: 19.6p in 82 games
Filip Zadina: 18.6p in 82 games
Brady Tkachuk: 10.9p in 82 games
Barrett Hayton: 12.3p in 82 games

So in that light Kotkaniemi's draft season should have been the best(at that draft slot), using his NHL conversion factors.
Unfortunately those conversions are crazy flawed and virtually meaningless. If this was an exact science... scouts wouldn't be needed.
 
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tfong

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Well, using @manny_hockey's league conversion factors(like NHLe), I'll check how Kotkaniemi compares to the top 5 forwards picked:
Andrei Svechnikov: 20.8p in 82 games
Jesperi Kotkaniemi: 19.6p in 82 games
Filip Zadina: 18.6p in 82 games
Brady Tkachuk: 10.9p in 82 games
Barrett Hayton: 12.3p in 82 games

So in that light Kotkaniemi's draft season should have been the best(at that draft slot), using his NHL conversion factors.

Were you using just regular season numbers? Or is that the total conversions from all their draft year stats?

Tkachuks seem scary low lol.
 

Yamazaki

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Feb 9, 2018
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Don’t like the pick because I have 0 confidence in bargain bin but maybe he can turn into a Jason Arnott type of player.
 
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