C Mikhail Abramov (2019, 115th, TOR; traded to STL)

[wings5]

Obviously playing in the wrong league.
This stuff happens when a pro level player is playing in the CHL.

Not going to lie that was some terrible defence

 

[Artorius Horus T]

Not going to lie that was some terrible defence

Yeah....but still.
Too good player for that level of hockey.

 

[Knies iT]

I don’t see a 30 goal scorer if that’s what you mean. I see a 15-20 goal scorer with 30-40 assists a season. That’s a very good second line player. The main drawback I see for him is that despite being a high level junior player, I’m not seeing a major elite offensive skill; but everything is very good. Maybe I’m underselling him, as you probably watch him more, but perhaps he just needs to get stronger to take advantage of the skill set he has.

I do think he’ll end up being more of a defensive anchor on an offensive third or second line down the road if he hits the milestones he’s supposed to hit.

Definitely selling him short. Goalies don't even react to his wrist shot and he has a wicked one-timer. Almost at 2PPG on the year too.

He should be a top 6 C at the WJC for Russia and it wouldn't shock me to see him take over 1C.

 

[Atas2000]

Show me the last Russian player to outscore 2nd on their team by 35 or more points in their D+0 (or earlier) season.

This certainly is not a good way of measuring. For two reasons. First of all why would it matter how he compares to players of one junior team? And then, as I wrote, brilliant junior performances are not uncommon for players who fail later on. As well as the opposite. For that reason I always take performances in junior leagues just as indication that a prospect is not struggling at that stage, but not as a guarantee of future success(unless a player is 15 and plays against guys 4-5 yrars older than him which is not the case here).

His season last year was impressive as hell. This season is looking (covid-permitting) even better.

So, impressive or not, his seasons are so far in juniors. That's not his fault, it's just what it is.

Russian captain of a junior team?

He is miles behind Podkolzin in that race. Also playing in Canada and thus not participating in U20 events because of that is not helping his stock. The team recently played in a tournament without Abramov.

Probably [should be] the 1C on the WJC team?

Sadly, a random guy on skates could be a C on the russian junior team. So even if he'd be a 1C it would not be a great accomplishment. As I mentioned in another thread, top9 centers on that squad will be fairly interchangeable, due to our bad center depth. None of those are huge superstars, including Abramov.

Yeah, just because it doesn't work for everyone doesn't mean it doesn't work.

True. It is a statistical thing at this point. The chances are not in his favor, that's all. If he can beat the odds, more power to him. We sure need centers.

He'll be in the AHL next season getting significant minutes if he continues playing like he arguably should have been a 1st round pick in 2018.

Let me see this happen first and THEN in the NHL. I tend not to trust great junior performances and even AHL performances to an extend. Look at Khokhlachyov who is a solid KHLer, but never made it in the NHL. He's had some great AHL numbers, better than many now NHLers.

 

[Atas2000]

Definitely selling him short. Goalies don't even react to his wrist shot and he has a wicked one-timer. Almost at 2PPG on the year too.

He should be a top 6 C at the WJC for Russia and it wouldn't shock me to see him take over 1C.

1C for Russia is like what? 5C for Canada?

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

is abramov's chance of success currently being statistically modelled after the success rate of russians that transition to the chl?

 

[wings5]

1C for Russia is like what? 5C for Canada?

Even less than number 5 as Canada has to place many centres on the wing in junior tournaments . Kids grow up in Canada wanting to play center as some great names have popularized the position obviously and they get upset when moved to wing. It seems like the preference in Russia is to play wing and be able to play both wings like many of the greats .

 

[Atas2000]

is abramov's chance of success currently being statistically modelled after the success rate of russians that transition to the chl?

This is exactly how statistics works. He might prove to be an outlier. Doesn't mean the overwhelming empirical evidence will disappear.

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

This is exactly how statistics works. He might prove to be an outlier. Doesn't mean the overwhelming empirical evidence will disappear.

statistics work that way if the statistics are actually relevant to player success

 

[nobody]

This certainly is not a good way of measuring. For two reasons. First of all why would it matter how he compares to players of one junior team? And then, as I wrote, brilliant junior performances are not uncommon for players who fail later on. As well as the opposite. For that reason I always take performances in junior leagues just as indication that a prospect is not struggling at that stage, but not as a guarantee of future success(unless a player is 15 and plays against guys 4-5 yrars older than him which is not the case here).
So, impressive or not, his seasons are so far in juniors. That's not his fault, it's just what it is.
He is miles behind Podkolzin in that race. Also playing in Canada and thus not participating in U20 events because of that is not helping his stock. The team recently played in a tournament without Abramov.
Sadly, a random guy on skates could be a C on the russian junior team. So even if he'd be a 1C it would not be a great accomplishment. As I mentioned in another thread, top9 centers on that squad will be fairly interchangeable, due to our bad center depth. None of those are huge superstars, including Abramov.
True. It is a statistical thing at this point. The chances are not in his favor, that's all. If he can beat the odds, more power to him. We sure need centers.

Let me see this happen first and THEN in the NHL. I tend not to trust great junior performances and even AHL performances to an extend. Look at Khokhlachyov who is a solid KHLer, but never made it in the NHL. He's had some great AHL numbers, better than many now NHLers.

Who hurt you?

Abramov is a stud and will probably be 1C for Russia at the WJC. He might get considered for captaincy based on the fact that he's one of the few Russians to achieve that milestone in the CHL (not only the Q which is a rare feat in itself). Last year this kid carried that terrible team and almost had more total points than the 2nd and 3rd players on the team, combined. Does that indicate future success? I don't't know but it's a hell of a lot more impressive than players who play in the CHL and put up big points and bust in pros because they lack size, have attitude issues or were simply inflated in value because of their team/ teammates. Abramov looked beastly in the prospect tournaments and training camp last season. Both he and SDA were standouts. The fact that he's 6'1 and 175 lbs now bodes well for his future because given his talents and development curve he's well on his way to being a stellar prospect. If he can stick to C, we have an absolute stud 3C in the system who can probably play up into the top 6 once JT gets moved to the wing.

I'm a big fan of Russian players and will be intently watching guys like Abramov, Amirov, Chinakhov, Chyka, Askarov at the WJC. These guys are the future of Russian hockey.

It will be very interesting to see how Abramov will tailor his playing style to the WJC roster since he'll finally get to play with great finishers and goal scorers like Chinakhov and Amirov. One thing I've been wanting to see more out of him is his playmaking ability but almost every highlight I've seen or the few games I've caught of him on Victoriaville, his teammates flub the puck every time they get prime scoring chances or they get absolutely robbed by the goalies or a defender blocking the shot.

On a more competent team with better finishers, Abramov is easily hitting 100+ points last year. Russian hockey fans should be salivating.

 

[Morgs]

This certainly is not a good way of measuring. For two reasons. First of all why would it matter how he compares to players of one junior team? And then, as I wrote, brilliant junior performances are not uncommon for players who fail later on. As well as the opposite. For that reason I always take performances in junior leagues just as indication that a prospect is not struggling at that stage, but not as a guarantee of future success(unless a player is 15 and plays against guys 4-5 yrars older than him which is not the case here).

So NA players playing in junior leagues prior to moving on is just "not struggling"? Yeah, lmao whatever you say. We get it, you hate Russians playing in the CHL.

So, impressive or not, his seasons are so far in juniors. That's not his fault, it's just what it is.

Lmao, he's 19. This is an absolutely ridiculous comment as he'd have to go back to Russia or play in the NHL to not be in junior.

He is miles behind Podkolzin in that race. Also playing in Canada and thus not participating in U20 events because of that is not helping his stock. The team recently played in a tournament without Abramov.

Captain of his junior team. How many Russians become captain of their junior team in NA?

Sadly, a random guy on skates could be a C on the russian junior team. So even if he'd be a 1C it would not be a great accomplishment. As I mentioned in another thread, top9 centers on that squad will be fairly interchangeable, due to our bad center depth. None of those are huge superstars, including Abramov.

We get it, you don't like Russians not playing in Russia. Him not being a junior star is hilarious. The guy dominates the Q with literally no help.

True. It is a statistical thing at this point. The chances are not in his favor, that's all. If he can beat the odds, more power to him. We sure need centers.

Like what. You do realize not everything is alike. The reason why most Russians don't have as much success in NA is because most of the good Russian players..... stay in Russia.

Abramov was nothing special before the draft, he was probably not going to get KHL time any time soon, and was probably stuck behind players in the MHL because of his team being so ridiculously good. He only broke out to this degree after his draft season. Just because he's not Kucherov or Svechnikov doesn't mean that his production at the Q level isn't ridiculously impressive. He's doing everything he needs to do correctly to be considered a fantastic prospect, and arguably the fourth best player on the Russian junior team (Podkolzin, Amirov, Askarov).

Let me see this happen first and THEN in the NHL. I tend not to trust great junior performances and even AHL performances to an extend. Look at Khokhlachyov who is a solid KHLer, but never made it in the NHL. He's had some great AHL numbers, better than many now NHLers.

Okay, so in other words you'll pollute this thread with nonsense about how he's not in Russia until he's playing full time in the NHL? How about you don't compare him to players from Russia, and instead compare him to his direct surroundings to see what kind of player he is.

 

[nobody]

Abramov was nothing special before the draft, he was probably not going to get KHL time any time soon, and was probably stuck behind players in the MHL because of his team being so ridiculously good. He only broke out to this degree after his draft season. Just because he's not Kucherov or Svechnikov doesn't mean that his production at the Q level isn't ridiculously impressive. He's doing everything he needs to do correctly to be considered a fantastic prospect, and arguably the fourth best player on the Russian junior team (Chinakhov, Amirov, Askarov).

Fixed it for you. Podkolzin is not a great NHL prospect. For a guy selected 10th overall in a strong draft, he's been absolutely atrocious. Not sure why you would spend a high pick on a guy that's never been able to produce on par with top guys in the KHL.

 

[Atas2000]

statistics work that way if the statistics are actually relevant to player success

You should try working with data. It's fun... when you know how to do it. You turn it completely inside out. Players' success is what creates the body of statistical data not the other way round.

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

You should try working with data. It's fun... when you know how to do it. You turn it completely inside out. Players' success is what creates the body of statistical data not the other way round.

you should try being less condescending, because an assertion that a russian player who opted to play in chl for whatever reason statistically makes them less likely to make the nhl, as opposed to taking into consideration more logical factors such as how well the player actually plays hockey, needs a lot more backing up and effort to sway people than you've provided

 

[Atas2000]

Who hurt you?

Abramov is a stud and will probably be 1C for Russia at the WJC. He might get considered for captaincy based on the fact that he's one of the few Russians to achieve that milestone in the CHL (not only the Q which is a rare feat in itself). Last year this kid carried that terrible team and almost had more total points than the 2nd and 3rd players on the team, combined. Does that indicate future success? I don't't know but it's a hell of a lot more impressive than players who play in the CHL and put up big points and bust in pros because they lack size, have attitude issues or were simply inflated in value because of their team/ teammates. Abramov looked beastly in the prospect tournaments and training camp last season. Both he and SDA were standouts. The fact that he's 6'1 and 175 lbs now bodes well for his future because given his talents and development curve he's well on his way to being a stellar prospect. If he can stick to C, we have an absolute stud 3C in the system who can probably play up into the top 6 once JT gets moved to the wing.

I'm a big fan of Russian players and will be intently watching guys like Abramov, Amirov, Chinakhov, Chyka, Askarov at the WJC. These guys are the future of Russian hockey.

It will be very interesting to see how Abramov will tailor his playing style to the WJC roster since he'll finally get to play with great finishers and goal scorers like Chinakhov and Amirov. One thing I've been wanting to see more out of him is his playmaking ability but almost every highlight I've seen or the few games I've caught of him on Victoriaville, his teammates flub the puck every time they get prime scoring chances or they get absolutely robbed by the goalies or a defender blocking the shot.

On a more competent team with better finishers, Abramov is easily hitting 100+ points last year. Russian hockey fans should be salivating.

Who hurt you? And hurt you bad, as you somehow predict who will be Russia's 1c without knowing anything substantial about russian prospect it seems.

He is a stud based on what? Being 15th in scoring in the Q last season? More than 30 pts behind Lafreniere in 11 more games played? Lafreniere is considered a stud.

He might get cosidered for captaincy based on what? You wanting it? Again, for the ignorant, Russia's team has a captain. There is no reason or evidence or whatever else for changing that. Just because some kid who doesn't even play in a men's league is considered good by some local fans?

He was was good on a bad team in one of the junior leagues. That is somehow supposed to indicate greatness?

Also "milestones" in junior leagues are pretty meaningless vs. "milestones" in the KHL because the KHL is the closest thing to the NHL. As simple as that. Also I could not care less for some achievements by Russians in some foreign junior leagues. They mean exactly nothing when it comes to the real thing. Call me, when he does something meaningful on a meaningful level. For the slow, I am not saying he won't, I am saying he is still a few steps away from that level. The only "knock" on him is that he has put himself into that position of playing in juniors for years without a chance of showing what he can do on a higher level. To put it in perspective Rubstov had similar numbers in the Q, he is pretty bland so far in the KHL. We won't be salivating over a guy who plays in juniors at 19.

 

[Fogelhund]

Who hurt you? And hurt you bad, as you somehow predict who will be Russia's 1c without knowing anything substantial about russian prospect it seems.

He is a stud based on what? Being 15th in scoring in the Q last season? More than 30 pts behind Lafreniere in 11 more games played? Lafreniere is considered a stud.

He might get cosidered for captaincy based on what? You wanting it? Again, for the ignorant, Russia's team has a captain. There is no reason or evidence or whatever else for changing that. Just because some kid who doesn't even play in a men's league is considered good by some local fans?

He was was good on a bad team in one of the junior leagues. That is somehow supposed to indicate greatness?

Also "milestones" in junior leagues are pretty meaningless vs. "milestones" in the KHL because the KHL is the closest thing to the NHL. As simple as that. Also I could not care less for some achievements by Russians in some foreign junior leagues. They mean exactly nothing when it comes to the real thing. Call me, when he does something meaningful on a meaningful level. For the slow, I am not saying he won't, I am saying he is still a few steps away from that level. The only "knock" on him is that he has put himself into that position of playing in juniors for years without a chance of showing what he can do on a higher level. To put it in perspective Rubstov had similar numbers in the Q, he is pretty bland so far in the KHL. We won't be salivating over a guy who plays in juniors at 19.

All I can say, is some of the most bizarre takes, that I've ever seen, based on some weird conceptions, about Russians coming to North America early. It's an obvious bias, that clouds your judgement, and renders them useless... it's actually amusing how bad these takes, and statements are.

It's almost like someone you have a vested interest in someone, who came to North America, from Russia, didn't succeed, and you blame their route, rather than the player, and are now completely biased.

 

[Atas2000]

you should try being less condescending, because an assertion that a russian player who opted to play in chl for whatever reason statistically makes them less likely to make the nhl, as opposed to taking into consideration more logical factors such as how well the player actually plays hockey, needs a lot more backing up and effort to sway people than you've provided

Oh, the discussion about Russians developing in the CHL vs. Russians developing in Russia is old, substance heavy and could be followed on this boards for years. If you missed the party, that's not a knock on you. Trying to call me out for not providing more evidence is. We've had this for years now, there's a bucket of posts, many of them mine with all the desirable data.

And empirical obserbvations are empirical observations. They are facts and above logic. Logical conclusions should be drawn from the facts. And if the evidence is that one-sided and convincing logic dictates we have to look for reasons why Russians develop badly in the CHL. Denying the fact that they are is what would be irrational here.

 

[Atas2000]

All I can say, is some of the most bizarre takes, that I've ever seen, based on some weird conceptions, about Russians coming to North America early. It's an obvious bias, that clouds your judgement, and renders them useless... it's actually amusing how bad these takes, and statements are.

It's almost like someone you have a vested interest in someone, who came to North America, from Russia, didn't succeed, and you blame their route, rather than the player, and are now completely biased.

You just go into denial towards most obvious facts, but my take is weird? On your part it's not bias, but hilariously obvious ignorance on at least half of the matter. North America is notorious for it, There is a world outside, you should try looking beyond a mile around your continent. It's you who looks weird here as this issue is thoroughly discussed and even some stubborn and biased North Americans had to realise the clarity of the facts.

You can argue for ages about why Russians tend to fail if they go to the CHL, but you can't deny that they do, because, you know, they do. There are lists and lists of names.

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

Oh, the discussion about Russians developing in the CHL vs. Russians developing in Russia is old, substance heavy and could be followed on this boards for years. If you missed the party, that's not a knock on you. Trying to call me out for not providing more evidence is. We've had this for years now, there's a bucket of posts, many of them mine with all the desirable data.

And empirical obserbvations are empirical observations. They are facts and above logic. Logical conclusions should be drawn from the facts. And if the evidence is that one-sided and convincing logic dictates we have to look for reasons why Russians develop badly in the CHL. Denying the fact that they are is what would be irrational here.

well, how can we continue without knowing the facts around success rate of chlers who score the most goals on mondays. facts above logic, after all.

when taylor hall played in the ahl at 22, i wonder how much that affected his odds of winning a hart trophy. after all, it's extremely rare for forwards who played in the ahl at 22yr old to go on to win a hart. facts above logic.

 

[Fogelhund]

You can argue for ages about why Russians tend to fail if they go to the CHL, but you can't deny that they do, because, you know, they do. There are lists and lists of names.

Even if true, Causation is not Correlation. Plenty of Canadians who go to the CHL fail too. Bottom line, there is a clear bias for some reason here, clouding any objectivity.

 

[nobody]

Who hurt you? And hurt you bad, as you somehow predict who will be Russia's 1c without knowing anything substantial about russian prospect it seems.

He is a stud based on what? Being 15th in scoring in the Q last season? More than 30 pts behind Lafreniere in 11 more games played? Lafreniere is considered a stud.

He might get cosidered for captaincy based on what? You wanting it? Again, for the ignorant, Russia's team has a captain. There is no reason or evidence or whatever else for changing that. Just because some kid who doesn't even play in a men's league is considered good by some local fans?

He was was good on a bad team in one of the junior leagues. That is somehow supposed to indicate greatness?

Also "milestones" in junior leagues are pretty meaningless vs. "milestones" in the KHL because the KHL is the closest thing to the NHL. As simple as that. Also I could not care less for some achievements by Russians in some foreign junior leagues. They mean exactly nothing when it comes to the real thing. Call me, when he does something meaningful on a meaningful level. For the slow, I am not saying he won't, I am saying he is still a few steps away from that level. The only "knock" on him is that he has put himself into that position of playing in juniors for years without a chance of showing what he can do on a higher level. To put it in perspective Rubstov had similar numbers in the Q, he is pretty bland so far in the KHL. We won't be salivating over a guy who plays in juniors at 19.

He wasn't good on a bad team. He was stellar on a bad team. Also stud means he's a great player, as I've said in other posts, he's going to be a good 2C/3C. Laf is a top line superstar. No one is calling Abramov a superstar in the making. Maybe you should be less assuming and delusional?

Also, please do link me where it was established that the Russian WJC has a captain in place. Maybe I missed it.

Milestones in every league are significant. It's a hell of a better indicator than not having any major milestones. The Q and every other north American league has produced many more NHLers than the KHL ever has. So give it a rest. KHL players are great, except when you see that CHL stars turned NHL/AHL busts go on and absolutely demolish the KHL, with homegrown Russian talent that simply isn't good enough to play in North America.

Bolded part: You don't have to be a prick. Your posts are doing plenty of exhibiting for you.

 

[vorky]

LOL he is going to be 20y soon & he is still playing with kids

 

[Morgs]

My goodness are these bad takes. I've never heard of him, but it seems like he just has a super obvious bias against Russians that play in NA regardless. The type of guy that would say Kuch made the wrong decision

Just because theres a trend of Russians coming over early not being good enough for the NHL doesn't mean it won't regress to the mean. Players develop differently, your blind bias is misinformed and outright silly.

 

[Morgs]

LOL he is going to be 20y soon & he is still playing with kids

Can't tell if joke, but so is:

Krebs
Poulin
Tomasino
McMichael
Pelletier
Foote
Suzuki
Tracey

And I'd argue nobody is worried about them being in the CHL for another season, especially with all of them being 1st round picks in the same year.

 

[vorky]

Can't tell if joke, but so is:

Krebs
Poulin
Tomasino
McMichael
Pelletier
Foote
Suzuki
Tracey

And I'd argue nobody is worried about them being in the CHL for another season, especially with all of them being 1st round picks in the same year.

I do not care about these players. Just quick guessing, there is not a single top European prospect. And that is a point made here. Top prospects use to play, at least a few games, at senior level at that age. Abramov has zero senior games on his belt so far.

And this is a big issue in North American hockey. It is not only about this player, but all. You are too good for junior hockey, but you can not play at senior level (AHL, meaning normal times). So, if Abramov was a bit more clever & still wanting to move to NA so badly, he should not go there at 17, but after the NHL draft at least. To avoid this junior hockey.