C Mikhail Abramov (2019, 115th, TOR; traded to STL)

[Atas2000]

So NA players playing in junior leagues prior to moving on is just "not struggling"? Yeah, lmao whatever you say. We get it, you hate Russians playing in the CHL.



Lmao, he's 19. This is an absolutely ridiculous comment as he'd have to go back to Russia or play in the NHL to not be in junior.



Captain of his junior team. How many Russians become captain of their junior team in NA?



We get it, you don't like Russians not playing in Russia. Him not being a junior star is hilarious. The guy dominates the Q with literally no help.



Like what. You do realize not everything is alike. The reason why most Russians don't have as much success in NA is because most of the good Russian players..... stay in Russia.

Abramov was nothing special before the draft, he was probably not going to get KHL time any time soon, and was probably stuck behind players in the MHL because of his team being so ridiculously good. He only broke out to this degree after his draft season. Just because he's not Kucherov or Svechnikov doesn't mean that his production at the Q level isn't ridiculously impressive. He's doing everything he needs to do correctly to be considered a fantastic prospect, and arguably the fourth best player on the Russian junior team (Podkolzin, Amirov, Askarov).



Okay, so in other words you'll pollute this thread with nonsense about how he's not in Russia until he's playing full time in the NHL? How about you don't compare him to players from Russia, and instead compare him to his direct surroundings to see what kind of player he is.

The problem with your take is you are defensive and thus irrational.

Some simple facts that are known by now to everyone who follows the discussion, but for you I will briefly reiterate:

NA and especially canadian players have close to no choice in their development path. There is no point in discussing them here.

They also by playing in the CHL just build on a continous development path that is in place in Canada. They step into that system as kids. Russians come from a different environment, diefferent country, different culture, diefferent hockey culture, different way of teaching hockey at an age when development ist most fragile due to the imminent translation from junior to men's hockey, the biggest jump in terms of level of play and adjustment requirements and competition.

No one is "hating" "your" shiny leagues. What I hate is seeing MY prospects not developing properly. Ultimately my team is Team Russia. Why would I be opposed to russian prospects then if they would become great Team Russia players after going to the CHL?

Exactly. Abramov is 19 and his decision to go to the CHL denies him the way more flexible possibilities of development. This is a thoroughly discussed issue you are apprently also ignorantely unaware of. He'd have to go back to Russia? What's the big problem with that? And yes, in Russia he'd easily have the chance to play against better competition than the Q at his age. And players who are as good as you picture Abramov to be usually are playing against better competition in Russia. This is exatly the age when you start looking for more significant achievements than junior leagues success from a player.

The choice of captain for Team Russia is barely influenced by captaincy in the Q. Let alone those remarks about how rare that was. There are way more accomplished players with a a formidable leadership resume. It is tough for a Russian to become captain in Canada, because stereotypes and Cold War narratives which are still very much present. It is way more based on performance in Russia.

Stop being hilariously defensive and for the last time, even if he had Lafreniere's numbers, it is still juniors. There is no guarantee Q numbers will translate. And the fact that he was the best on a bad team does not change that. I am not waving around with some MHL numbers either.

Most moot argument ever about best Russians staying in Russia.

1.Why would they do that?
2.Look up the russian junior national teams and you will find out you are wrong.
3.The rate at which they fail after the CHL is way beyond just the fact that they were not so good prospects(which they are not). As evidenced by the precious NHL draft and them playing key roles on the junior national teams at some point those players are among the best of their respective crops. And some of the guys who develop nicely in Russia were rated well below them in juniors.

That Abramov somehow was not special before the draft is a simple lie. He was 5th in the league in scoring at U17 level(way betterthan his 15th now in the Q). Two points ahead of Amirov, eight behind Chinakhov. Over PPG player on the russian U17 NT. You know, those russian NTs are good, but not that good so we could call a PPG NT player nothing special. And what does KHL have to do with it? Before the draft he was 17. Who gets KHL time at 17? Abramov is certainly no Ovechkin. And at 17 he was among the best on his CSKA junior teamsm He has even played some games with the one year older team and had the best PPG there. HE sure was one of the best prospects in the system. And all of those top guys he was playing with who stayed in Russia are either playing in the KHL regularily now or are getting at least some games on KHL level. So you claim is probably not even ignorant, but deliberately misleading. You also conveniently disregad the fact that there is the VHL too, something that is just not there for the CHL prospects due to specific NA regulations. They can't play in the AHL even if they wanted to and/or are good enough. In Russia starting at age 17-18 they have all three leagues available and can play in those based on their development level. If in Russia Abramov would certainly be plying against men by now.

You are the one polluting this thread with ignorance.

 

[Deezone]

Fixed it for you. Podkolzin is not a great NHL prospect. For a guy selected 10th overall in a strong draft, he's been absolutely atrocious. Not sure why you would spend a high pick on a guy that's never been able to produce on par with top guys in the KHL.

....says ABSOLUTELY nobody.....

 

[The Podium]

I do not care about these players. Just quick guessing, there is not a single top European prospect. And that is a point made here. Top prospects use to play, at least a few games, at senior level at that age. Abramov has zero senior games on his belt so far.

And this is a big issue in North American hockey. It is not only about this player, but all. You are too good for junior hockey, but you can not play at senior level (AHL, meaning normal times). So, if Abramov was a bit more clever & still wanting to move to NA so badly, he should not go there at 17, but after the NHL draft at least. To avoid this junior hockey.

Considering Canada currently has roughly 80 more NHLers than the rest of the world, outside of USA, combined I dont think overrippening prospects in junior is as big an issue in NA hockey as you are trying to portray.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

Abramov is either going to be good enough to be a NHL player....or he won't be. To act like players staying in Russia is some perfect development model is ridiculous. Talent rises, it is either going to happen for him or it won't. All this whining and moaning about where he is playing is just a waste of time.

 

[The Podium]

Abramov is either going to be good enough to be a NHL player....or he won't be. To act like players staying in Russia is some perfect development model is ridiculous. Talent rises, it is either going to happen for him or it won't. All this whining and moaning about where he is playing is just a waste of time.

Its funny that Russian fans are pro the KHL route considering that top prospects get minimal playing time and generally take a back seat to less deserving vets in the KHL if they even make the league at all.

 

[Isaac Nootin]

The problem with your take is you are defensive and thus irrational.


You are the one polluting this thread with ignorance.

This is rich, considering the source.

 

[Morgs]

I do not care about these players. Just quick guessing, there is not a single top European prospect. And that is a point made here. Top prospects use to play, at least a few games, at senior level at that age. Abramov has zero senior games on his belt so far.

And this is a big issue in North American hockey. It is not only about this player, but all. You are too good for junior hockey, but you can not play at senior level (AHL, meaning normal times). So, if Abramov was a bit more clever & still wanting to move to NA so badly, he should not go there at 17, but after the NHL draft at least. To avoid this junior hockey.

It literally makes no difference. He's in the CHL now and he can be directly compared to those players because of it.

 

[Atas2000]

This is rich, considering the source.

LOL stick to your cosy narratives. Pretty lame attempt of yours. But expected considering the source.

 

[LeafChief]

The problem with your take is you are defensive and thus irrational.

Some simple facts that are known by now to everyone who follows the discussion, but for you I will briefly reiterate:

NA and especially canadian players have close to no choice in their development path. There is no point in discussing them here.

They also by playing in the CHL just build on a continous development path that is in place in Canada. They step into that system as kids. Russians come from a different environment, diefferent country, different culture, diefferent hockey culture, different way of teaching hockey at an age when development ist most fragile due to the imminent translation from junior to men's hockey, the biggest jump in terms of level of play and adjustment requirements and competition.

No one is "hating" "your" shiny leagues. What I hate is seeing MY prospects not developing properly. Ultimately my team is Team Russia. Why would I be opposed to russian prospects then if they would become great Team Russia players after going to the CHL?

Exactly. Abramov is 19 and his decision to go to the CHL denies him the way more flexible possibilities of development. This is a thoroughly discussed issue you are apprently also ignorantely unaware of. He'd have to go back to Russia? What's the big problem with that? And yes, in Russia he'd easily have the chance to play against better competition than the Q at his age. And players who are as good as you picture Abramov to be usually are playing against better competition in Russia. This is exatly the age when you start looking for more significant achievements than junior leagues success from a player.

The choice of captain for Team Russia is barely influenced by captaincy in the Q. Let alone those remarks about how rare that was. There are way more accomplished players with a a formidable leadership resume. It is tough for a Russian to become captain in Canada, because stereotypes and Cold War narratives which are still very much present. It is way more based on performance in Russia.

Stop being hilariously defensive and for the last time, even if he had Lafreniere's numbers, it is still juniors. There is no guarantee Q numbers will translate. And the fact that he was the best on a bad team does not change that. I am not waving around with some MHL numbers either.

Most moot argument ever about best Russians staying in Russia.

1.Why would they do that?
2.Look up the russian junior national teams and you will find out you are wrong.
3.The rate at which they fail after the CHL is way beyond just the fact that they were not so good prospects(which they are not). As evidenced by the precious NHL draft and them playing key roles on the junior national teams at some point those players are among the best of their respective crops. And some of the guys who develop nicely in Russia were rated well below them in juniors.

That Abramov somehow was not special before the draft is a simple lie. He was 5th in the league in scoring at U17 level(way betterthan his 15th now in the Q). Two points ahead of Amirov, eight behind Chinakhov. Over PPG player on the russian U17 NT. You know, those russian NTs are good, but not that good so we could call a PPG NT player nothing special. And what does KHL have to do with it? Before the draft he was 17. Who gets KHL time at 17? Abramov is certainly no Ovechkin. And at 17 he was among the best on his CSKA junior teamsm He has even played some games with the one year older team and had the best PPG there. HE sure was one of the best prospects in the system. And all of those top guys he was playing with who stayed in Russia are either playing in the KHL regularily now or are getting at least some games on KHL level. So you claim is probably not even ignorant, but deliberately misleading. You also conveniently disregad the fact that there is the VHL too, something that is just not there for the CHL prospects due to specific NA regulations. They can't play in the AHL even if they wanted to and/or are good enough. In Russia starting at age 17-18 they have all three leagues available and can play in those based on their development level. If in Russia Abramov would certainly be plying against men by now.

You are the one polluting this thread with ignorance.

I didn't read any of this propaganda but I just wanted to pop in to say how happy it makes me to see you squirm when a Russian player comes over to the CHL.

 

[Morgs]

The problem with your take is you are defensive and thus irrational.

Some simple facts that are known by now to everyone who follows the discussion, but for you I will briefly reiterate:

NA and especially canadian players have close to no choice in their development path. There is no point in discussing them here.

They also by playing in the CHL just build on a continous development path that is in place in Canada. They step into that system as kids. Russians come from a different environment, diefferent country, different culture, diefferent hockey culture, different way of teaching hockey at an age when development ist most fragile due to the imminent translation from junior to men's hockey, the biggest jump in terms of level of play and adjustment requirements and competition.

No one is "hating" "your" shiny leagues. What I hate is seeing MY prospects not developing properly. Ultimately my team is Team Russia. Why would I be opposed to russian prospects then if they would become great Team Russia players after going to the CHL?

Exactly. Abramov is 19 and his decision to go to the CHL denies him the way more flexible possibilities of development. This is a thoroughly discussed issue you are apprently also ignorantely unaware of. He'd have to go back to Russia? What's the big problem with that? And yes, in Russia he'd easily have the chance to play against better competition than the Q at his age. And players who are as good as you picture Abramov to be usually are playing against better competition in Russia. This is exatly the age when you start looking for more significant achievements than junior leagues success from a player.

The choice of captain for Team Russia is barely influenced by captaincy in the Q. Let alone those remarks about how rare that was. There are way more accomplished players with a a formidable leadership resume. It is tough for a Russian to become captain in Canada, because stereotypes and Cold War narratives which are still very much present. It is way more based on performance in Russia.

Stop being hilariously defensive and for the last time, even if he had Lafreniere's numbers, it is still juniors. There is no guarantee Q numbers will translate. And the fact that he was the best on a bad team does not change that. I am not waving around with some MHL numbers either.

Most moot argument ever about best Russians staying in Russia.

1.Why would they do that?
2.Look up the russian junior national teams and you will find out you are wrong.
3.The rate at which they fail after the CHL is way beyond just the fact that they were not so good prospects(which they are not). As evidenced by the precious NHL draft and them playing key roles on the junior national teams at some point those players are among the best of their respective crops. And some of the guys who develop nicely in Russia were rated well below them in juniors.

That Abramov somehow was not special before the draft is a simple lie. He was 5th in the league in scoring at U17 level(way betterthan his 15th now in the Q). Two points ahead of Amirov, eight behind Chinakhov. Over PPG player on the russian U17 NT. You know, those russian NTs are good, but not that good so we could call a PPG NT player nothing special. And what does KHL have to do with it? Before the draft he was 17. Who gets KHL time at 17? Abramov is certainly no Ovechkin. And at 17 he was among the best on his CSKA junior teamsm He has even played some games with the one year older team and had the best PPG there. HE sure was one of the best prospects in the system. And all of those top guys he was playing with who stayed in Russia are either playing in the KHL regularily now or are getting at least some games on KHL level. So you claim is probably not even ignorant, but deliberately misleading. You also conveniently disregad the fact that there is the VHL too, something that is just not there for the CHL prospects due to specific NA regulations. They can't play in the AHL even if they wanted to and/or are good enough. In Russia starting at age 17-18 they have all three leagues available and can play in those based on their development level. If in Russia Abramov would certainly be plying against men by now.

You are the one polluting this thread with ignorance.

Your whole argument is based on one simple incorrect fact:

That a players development is limited outside of Russia. Just because YOU believe it's the best way, and it's trended that way the last few years doesn't mean it's like that for every player.

You're literally not even arguing the merits of Abramov whatsoever, you're simply just dismissing what he's done because it's in junior and because he's not Alex Lafreniere lmao. Its nonsense.

It's ok you're butthurt about the fact he moved away from Russia. I'd (and many others) would just prefer to come into our teams prospect thread and hear about his merits, not about a dude pulling him down because he's sad he left his country.

 

[Atas2000]

It literally makes no difference. He's in the CHL now and he can be directly compared to those players because of it.

Yakupov could be compared to Khokhlachev and Namestnikov while in the OHL. What of it? Both are now better players than Yakupov.

 

[Morgs]

Yakupov could be compared to Khokhlachev and Namestnikov while in the OHL. What of it? Both are now better players than Yakupov.

Rob Schremp had a 2.54 ppg season in the OHL. McDavid had a 2.55 ppg season. They must be pretty close players today.

Oh wait, that doesnt make any f***ing sense because development works differently regardless of nationality or player even if they both play in junior.

 

[Atas2000]

Rob Schremp had a 2.54 ppg season in the OHL. McDavid had a 2.55 ppg season. They must be pretty close players today.

Oh wait, that doesnt make any f***ing sense because development works differently regardless of nationality or player even if they both play in junior.

It's nice you agree with me.

 

[Morgs]

It's nice you agree with me.

What I've learned after being on this website over 5 years is you can get rid of trash posters with the simple click of a button.

 

[Coaches Coroner]

oh hey the one Russian guy whose sole purpose is to cry about the CHL is back

 

[Atas2000]

Your whole argument is based on one simple incorrect fact:

That a players development is limited outside of Russia. Just because YOU believe it's the best way, and it's trended that way the last few years doesn't mean it's like that for every player.

You're literally not even arguing the merits of Abramov whatsoever, you're simply just dismissing what he's done because it's in junior and because he's not Alex Lafreniere lmao. Its nonsense.

It's ok you're butthurt about the fact he moved away from Russia. I'd (and many others) would just prefer to come into our teams prospect thread and hear about his merits, not about a dude pulling him down because he's sad he left his country.

If you invent those "incorrect facts" yourself for your dream world maybe.

"That a players development is limited outside of Russia"? Quote me.

"Just because YOU believe it's the best way" That's not ME, that's statistics and empirical data. Go argue with them.

"doesn't mean it's like that for every player." Quote me.

"not even arguing the merits of Abramov whatsoever" And I won't, because a career minor leaguer is a star on the pond.

"because it's in junior" Because it's in juniors AND he is 19 by now, not 15.

"because he's not Alex Lafreniere" Any more fabulous products of your imagination?

"It's ok you're butthurt" It's you who are butthurt here. So defensive, so eager to protect "your" development system which never was questioned or attacked. I don't care where players develop, as long as they develop and not hit their development floor by the end of their development. The history of Russians developing in the CHL shows clearly it's not the right place for them. Why should I ignore it? So you can feel safe about those NA leagues?

"because he's sad he left his country." You are probably one of those people who think there is something enticing in going to NA

 

[Atas2000]

sorry that triggered you into an emotional outburst.

LOL a bunch of emotional kids can't live with me laughing at their inablility to argue their point. I can live with that.

 

[Coaches Coroner]

LOL a bunch of emotional kids can't live with me laughing at their inablility to argue their point. I can live with that.

post through it champ, you're currently the embodiment of the "I'm not mad, I'm actually laughing" meme.

 

[Atas2000]

post through it champ, you're currently the embodiment of the "I'm not mad, I'm actually laughing" meme.

No matter how hard you try, it is my posts on the actual matter that triggered a bunch of insecure guys who can't live with a different opinion stated. You want a cosy place where everybody agrees with your pre-cooked "everybody's" opinion? I couldn't care less. None of yoe will be here in 5 years to admit they were wrong anyway.

 

[nobody]

LOL a bunch of emotional kids can't live with me laughing at their inablility to argue their point. I can live with that.

You have to realize at some point when you're the only person arguing a point. You might be the one that's wrong?

 

[Martin Skoula]

The only advantage Russia has is the free movement between VHL/MHL/KHL. If the AHL/CHL didn't have their stupid agreement, the North American system would be miles better than Russia's. As it stands, there's a legitimate argument that the KHL system is better for star forwards because they can get professional experience and then go back down a level to work on their game. That being said, it has nothing to do with the Russian system being better, as their entire advantage can be erased overnight if one little rule got changed in NA.

 

[hockeeyyy]

LOL a bunch of emotional kids can't live with me laughing at their inablility to argue their point. I can live with that.

You seem really upset. Is there an adult I can call to come pick you up?

 

[Canada4Gold]

Can someone point me to the actual Mikhail Abramov thread. I think this one is labelled incorrectly.

 

[LeafChief]

LOL a bunch of emotional kids can't live with me laughing at their inablility to argue their point. I can live with that.

Mix in a water.

 

[Stephen]

The history of Russians developing in the CHL shows clearly it's not the right place for them. Why should I ignore it? So you can feel safe about those NA leagues?

Shouldn't the success of Russians who graduated from the CHL like Nikita Kucherov, Andrei Svechnikov, Mikhail Sergachev, Alexander Radulov, Ivan Provorov, Nikita Zadorov, Ivan Barbashev, Dmitri Kulikov, Yakov Trenin, Anton Khudobin, Vladislav Namestnikov make you reconsider the idea that the CHL isn't good for Russians?

That's a lot of recent history clearly showing that your original statement isn't correct.