C Michael Rasmussen - Tri-City Americans, WHL (2017, 9th, DET)

[Wintersun]

It's too bad that I think your opinion is so much worse than your username. Wintersun is fantastic.

Like I said, I don't know how Rasmussen would be so clearly better than Vilardi. I think Vilardi has much better vision, creativity, hands, board work and two-way play even. I'd say maybe Rasmussen has the edge in goal scoring but I'm not even sure. To be honest Vilardi has always been viewed as the better of the two and if he had been healthy I think he could have done a lot this year, even though he already did great.

No knock on Rasmussen, I'm not hating on him, I think he's going to be a great player for the Red Wings, but Vilardi to me is a top 10-15 prospect in the world so there's that.

And yes, Wintersun is pretty cool.

 

[Hen Kolland]

Like I said, I don't know how Rasmussen would be so clearly better than Vilardi. I think Vilardi has much better vision, creativity, hands, board work and two-way play even. I'd say maybe Rasmussen has the edge in goal scoring but I'm not even sure. To be honest Vilardi has always been viewed as the better of the two and if he had been healthy I think he could have done a lot this year, even though he already did great.

No knock on Rasmussen, I'm not hating on him, I think he's going to be a great player for the Red Wings, but Vilardi to me is a top 10-15 prospect in the world so there's that.

And yes, Wintersun is pretty cool.

And this is where I find the debate takes an interesting turn. If Vilardi was "much better" in those areas as you portray it, wouldn't we see that translate into better production or better play? Because when finally healthy and playing at full speed, he matched or bettered the pace that Vilardi set.

I haven't seen anything that would place Vilardi in a world class section of prospects, while Rasmussen doesn't even get placed on the waiting list. Scott Wheeler just posted an article for the Athletic ranking the top 50 drafted prospects in hockey right now and had Vilardi ranked #13 and Rasmussen was included in the list of 70 "honorable mentions".

Whether that's how you personally perceive Ras or not, the ongoing projections that HF likes to spew mirror these expert opinion pieces, that Vilardi has a chance at being a front line scoring center while Ras will have to abandon the center position to have an outside chance at ever being more than a bottom 6 forward. How does that work? Either Ras is a better prospect than he is painted by most, or Vilardi is significantly overrated as a prospect, or somewhere in the middle.

 

[Pavels Dog]

There’s no way he puts up 40+ in his rookie season, he probably doesn’t even make the NHL this year.

Seems legit. Given that he almost made the team last year and GM/coach are essentially locking him into the NHL this year.

To be honest Vilardi has always been viewed as the better of the two and if he had been healthy I think he could have done a lot this year, even though he already did great.

Seems unlikely as his pace fell off and he finished the playoffs very weakly. Rasmussen on the other hand completely took off once he got 100% healthy.

 

[TwoPiece]

And this is where I find the debate takes an interesting turn. If Vilardi was "much better" in those areas as you portray it, wouldn't we see that translate into better production or better play? Because when finally healthy and playing at full speed, he matched or bettered the pace that Vilardi set.

I haven't seen anything that would place Vilardi in a world class section of prospects, while Rasmussen doesn't even get placed on the waiting list. Scott Wheeler just posted an article for the Athletic ranking the top 50 drafted prospects in hockey right now and had Vilardi ranked #13 and Rasmussen was included in the list of 70 "honorable mentions".

Whether that's how you personally perceive Ras or not, the ongoing projections that HF likes to spew mirror these expert opinion pieces, that Vilardi has a chance at being a front line scoring center while Ras will have to abandon the center position to have an outside chance at ever being more than a bottom 6 forward. How does that work? Either Ras is a better prospect than he is painted by most, or Vilardi is significantly overrated as a prospect, or somewhere in the middle.

Both, pretty much. While Vilardi has better "creativity" and "vision", Rasmussen simply has better scoring ability and senses. Vilardi is more of a typical center in that he distributes better and plays better on the perimeter. Rasmussen thrives in the high goal-scoring areas. Not only is he just a massive body in front of opponent's nets, but he controls the front of his own net when playing center. Imagine a bizarro Joe Thornton. That's Rasmussen's M.O. With Larkin, Veleno, and I personally think Berggren would serve as a better center than winger, Rasmussen's natural scoring abilities and nose for the net takes advantage of those center's skills. Vilardi will not be as good a winger. If they both play center, they might produce similarly, but Rasmussen is a better skater, a better defender, and a better "leader". He's smart and a lead-by-example type. Exactly why Detroit drafted him. He's the polar opposite of a Jurco type, or the players they draft late, who have character flaws.

Edit: Rasmussen's "hands" are not inferior to Vilardi's. While he tends to avoid being flashy, Rasmussen uses his hand skills to embarrass goalies (by scoring) rather than defensemen.

 

[Frolov 6'3]

And this is where I find the debate takes an interesting turn. If Vilardi was "much better" in those areas as you portray it, wouldn't we see that translate into better production or better play? Because when finally healthy and playing at full speed, he matched or bettered the pace that Vilardi set.
.

Care to enlighten this because you lost me here.

 

[Ezekial]

Care to enlighten this because you lost me here.

After coming back from wrist surgery Michael Rasmussen had 62 points in 39 games for 1.59 ppg to finish the regular season and in the playoffs.

Gabe Vilardi had 70 points in 48 games for 1.46 ppg last year in the regular season and playoffs.

 

[newfy]

After coming back from wrist surgery Michael Rasmussen had 62 points in 39 games for 1.59 ppg to finish the regular season and in the playoffs.

Gabe Vilardi had 70 points in 48 games for 1.46 ppg last year in the regular season and playoffs.

I feel like this has been mentioned a lot but some people dont hear it. People will say Oh Rasmussen had a hot streak in the playoffs, but in reality he played over half a seasons worth of games when he returned from wrist surgery and was absolutely dominant offensively, even more so than Vilardi who doesnt play the game as well as him in the other 2 zones of the ice.

I'm not even saying Rasmussen is better, I think theyre very similar calibre prospects, but so many on here love to compare and say how bad of a pick Rasmussen was while praising Vilardi. Rasmussens last season in junior wa sbetter than Vilardis

 

[Frolov 6'3]

After coming back from wrist surgery Michael Rasmussen had 62 points in 39 games for 1.59 ppg to finish the regular season and in the playoffs.

Gabe Vilardi had 70 points in 48 games for 1.46 ppg last year in the regular season and playoffs.

Thats not what i meant. Vilardi is more complete than Rasmussen and I dont understand how some can deny that. I dont see a lot of things he does better than Vilardi. That does not mean Gabe will be a more succesful NHL player because this must be translated to the pro’s but somehow he cant be more complete because Rasmussen put up more points in the second half of the season. Not to mention, “actual play” is hard to determine too and that was brought up as well.

I have a feeling some are fed up with Vilardi but lets not act Rasmussen is a better prospect at this point. I might be biased as well but most neutral fans see this too if they compare both skillsets. Better wristshot, better vision, much harder to get off the puck, better hands, better passer, worse skater, good forechecker and good size too. The skating and perhaps his health are the major concerns. If this guy could skate, he would have gone top 3.

 

[SimplySolace]

Thats not what i meant. Vilardi is more complete than Rasmussen and I dont understand how some can deny that. I dont see a lot of things he does better than Vilardi. That does not mean Gabe will be a more succesful NHL player because this must be translated to the pro’s but somehow he cant be more complete because Rasmussen put up more points in the second half of the season. Not to mention, “actual play” is hard to determine too and that was brought up as well.

I have a feeling some are fed up with Vilardi but lets not act Rasmussen is a better prospect at this point. I might be biased as well but most neutral fans see this too if they compare both skillsets. Better wristshot, better vision, much harder to get off the puck, better hands, better passer, worse skater, good forechecker and good size too. The skating and perhaps his health are the major concerns. If this guy could skate, he would have gone top 3.

Can you stick with what Vilardi is actually better at? You start strong then you're blatantly wrong ("much harder to get off the puck") to only finish it off with "good checker" and "good size". How does Vilardi have "good size" over Rasmussen exactly?

 

[Ezekial]

I was just clarifying your confusion.

 

[Hen Kolland]

Thats not what i meant. Vilardi is more complete than Rasmussen and I dont understand how some can deny that. I dont see a lot of things he does better than Vilardi. That does not mean Gabe will be a more succesful NHL player because this must be translated to the pro’s but somehow he cant be more complete because Rasmussen put up more points in the second half of the season. Not to mention, “actual play” is hard to determine too and that was brought up as well.

I have a feeling some are fed up with Vilardi but lets not act Rasmussen is a better prospect at this point. I might be biased as well but most neutral fans see this too if they compare both skillsets. Better wristshot, better vision, much harder to get off the puck, better hands, better passer, worse skater, good forechecker and good size too. The skating and perhaps his health are the major concerns. If this guy could skate, he would have gone top 3.

If he was a plus skater, I agree, he would be viewed substantially higher than he is at this point. And I don't want you to necessarily take this as me diminishing Vilardi's ability or potential because he was a top 10 worthy pick in 2017 and deserves to be in the discussion as a top tier prospect.

This is more about Rasmussen being underappreciated. He doesn't have the highlight real plays that make jaws drop. What he is, is an efficient power forward that plays a simple, complete, impactful game. His production matches what my eyes tell me. I think Rasmussen will have an easier transition to the NHL level, and the result is that he is viewed as a safe pick, which has a connotation of being void of upside. I think there's more to Ras, even if it never reaches the same level that Vilardi's ceiling is.

 

[Lampedampe]

Thats not what i meant. Vilardi is more complete than Rasmussen and I dont understand how some can deny that. I dont see a lot of things he does better than Vilardi. That does not mean Gabe will be a more succesful NHL player because this must be translated to the pro’s but somehow he cant be more complete because Rasmussen put up more points in the second half of the season. Not to mention, “actual play” is hard to determine too and that was brought up as well.

I have a feeling some are fed up with Vilardi but lets not act Rasmussen is a better prospect at this point. I might be biased as well but most neutral fans see this too if they compare both skillsets. Better wristshot, better vision, much harder to get off the puck, better hands, better passer, worse skater, good forechecker and good size too. The skating and perhaps his health are the major concerns. If this guy could skate, he would have gone top 3.

Don't see a lot of people calling Ras better than Vilardi. Some are trying to prove that they're quite even at this point, I'd give an edge to Vilardi but some people make it seem like Vilardi is on a different tier.

It will be interesting to follow both prospects this coming season. Personally I believe both will stick in NHL and produce at the same level, with Vilardi being a better 5v5 player while Ras chips in more on PP.

 

[LordNeverLose]

If Vilardi was "much better" in those areas as you portray it, wouldn't we see that translate into better production or better play? Because when finally healthy and playing at full speed, he matched or bettered the pace that Vilardi set.

D Season:
Vilardi - 1.24 PPG
Rasmussen - 1.1 PPG

D+1 Season:
Vilardi - 1.81 PPG
Rasmussen - 1.26 PPG

 

[DDRhockey]

Rasmussen is a 4th rounder at best.

 

[WingsMJN2965]

Rasmussen is a 4th rounder at best.

 

[Castle8130]

Rasmussen is a 4th rounder at best.

I have seen my fair share of crapping on Rasmussen, but this takes the cake. Not many 4th rounders are close to nhl ready after their d+1 season.

 

[newfy]

D Season:
Vilardi - 1.24 PPG
Rasmussen - 1.1 PPG

D+1 Season:
Vilardi - 1.81 PPG
Rasmussen - 1.26 PPG

Include their playoffs and it becomes

Rasmussen - 1.51 PPG
Vilardi - 1.67 PPG

which is a lot closer

Include the timeframe when Rasmussen returned from wrist surgery which was impacting him from the start of the season

Rasmussen - 1.59 PPG

Vilardi - 1.67 PPG

BUT... Vilardi started on a hot streak when he came back and finished the season much weaker. Rasmussen started slower when he was injured but finished the season much stronger. There isnt much separating these guys right now

 

[izzy]

Include their playoffs and it becomes

Rasmussen - 1.51 PPG
Vilardi - 1.67 PPG

which is a lot closer

Include the timeframe when Rasmussen returned from wrist surgery which was impacting him from the start of the season

Rasmussen - 1.59 PPG

Vilardi - 1.67 PPG

BUT... Vilardi started on a hot streak when he came back and finished the season much weaker. Rasmussen started slower when he was injured but finished the season much stronger. There isnt much separating these guys right now

you are hand picking when rasmussen played well and vilardi was slumping, you even said that

 

[newfy]

you are hand picking when rasmussen played well and vilardi was slumping, you even said that

I did hand pick when Rasmussen was healthy. He had an injury starting the season that he played through (likely to try for the WJ team) and as soon as he didnt make it he had surgery pretty much immediately. The sample of each player being fully healthy on the season is pretty much the same game sample size though.

However I think most on here would like to see a prospect finish strong going into the next season instead of finishing weaker. Rasmussen was strong, Vilardi pretty weak, which I think is enough to to wipe out the .1 ppg difference and say they had extremely similar seasons

 

[Hen Kolland]

D Season:
Vilardi - 1.24 PPG
Rasmussen - 1.1 PPG

D+1 Season:
Vilardi - 1.81 PPG
Rasmussen - 1.26 PPG

You must be new here, trying to incite arguments using rates entirely out of context like that. There has been multiple discussions on the impacts of Rasmussen playing through his injury, recovering from surgery, and then finally playing at full speed.

Craig Custance wrote a piece near the end of April on Rasmussen discussing the evolution of his season. He decided to have surgery around Christmas, and was back practicing and playing by the end of January; the thing is, he was still sore and still restricted by his wrist and had a hard time getting comfortable and confident with it. He details how he finally found a comfort zone some time a few weeks before this article was published in late April. Without knowing exactly when he found that comfort level, you can look at the playoffs, where he produced at a 2.35 rate for 14 games. Or go further into the end of the regular season until the beginning of March, which brings his rate down a touch (likely catching some games he wasn't exactly comfortable) which brings you to a 1.87 in 23 games. If you take it back to late January when he returned from injury, you get a 1.56 rate in 39 games.

As he got healthy and comfortable, he started producing in a manner that very, very few can replicate. Yes, Vilardi had a damn good year, but we didn't get to see a full year of what Rasmussen is capable of when he's healthy, but what he did when he was healthy was outstanding.

 

[Pavels Dog]

you are hand picking when rasmussen played well and vilardi was slumping, you even said that

*include all games* = handpicking? Lol.

 

[Bevans]

you are hand picking when rasmussen played well and vilardi was slumping, you even said that

If you want to give a substantive comparison of the two players you should be able to acknowledge their injuries. Doing so is not cherry picking.

The evidence indicates that playing with a hand that needed surgery impacted his season. He got the surgery and became healthy. To presume that a now repaired injury will impact the rest of his career is silly.

Both Rasmussen and vilardi had serious injuries this year, one was able to play through it and one wasn't.

You're more than welcome to come to the conclusion that vilardi is a better prospect. If you get there by shoving your head in the sand it just lowers the credibility of your conclusion.

 

[WingsMJN2965]

For folks being so certain that Vilardi is a hockey god and Ras is a bust there sure is a lot of argument about it... Almost as if there's an inferiority complex.

 

[izzy]

*include all games* = handpicking? Lol.

um no, thats not what he did

 

[Pavels Dog]

um no, thats not what he did

1.51PPG vs. 1.67PPG is all their games last season, regular season and playoffs. It's the most "fair" comparison between the two players. It's not hand-picking.
Hand-picking is only looking regular season for Vilardi, which limits the sample size to a fairly small 32 games. Rasmussen's best 32 games (his last 32 games) he had 55 points for 1.72PPG. But again, without handpicking the only fair comparison is to include ALL their games.