C Michael Rasmussen - Tri-City Americans, WHL (2017, 9th, DET)

[Shaman464]

He dominated the playoffs and the last part of the season when he got healthy. If you include his playoffs he had 92 points in 61 games, which is right around that 1.5 ppg. That said, I don't think it is a guarantee he makes the NHL. It'll depend on his camp and how he does in his 9 games (if he gets them).

One thing people keep missing is that he was a winger in the playoffs, which is different than playing center.

 

[Pavels Dog]

His production in the WHL doesn't seem to be that good to make the jump in NHL at 19?

Real good player get about 1.5-2 ppg in their draft + 1. (Marner, Barzal, Draisatl, Ehlers)



Rasmussen hasn't dominated WHL yet.

Including playoffs, Draisatl had 1.59PPG in his d+1 and Rasmussen had 1.51PPG. That's not to say Ras is a similar caliber prospect as Drai, but the production isn't wildly different.

But most importantly production isn't the be-all-end-all. Ras was great last pre-season with the Wings, and plays a very pro-ready game. If he bombs in training camp he might go back to juniors, but all signs point to a guy ready to take the leap.

 

[Henkka]

Ras was great last pre-season with the Wings, and plays a very pro-ready game. If he bombs in training camp he might go back to juniors, but all signs point to a guy ready to take the leap.

4+0 in 5 preseason games at a center position.

Guy is not even supposed to score, he can be fit in through a bottom6 , if needed. Just like Franzen did.

 

[wingsnut19]

One thing people keep missing is that he was a winger in the playoffs, which is different than playing center.

I'm aware. It is different, but still shows that he has offensive talent. Not sure what impact he'll have in the NHL, but hopefully his game can translate as a center. As Henkka said, he did look good in his preseason games last year, so I've got my fingers crossed that he'll do well and stick with the big club.

 

[Shaman464]

I'm aware. It is different, but still shows that he has offensive talent. Not sure what impact he'll have in the NHL, but hopefully his game can translate as a center. As Henkka said, he did look good in his preseason games last year, so I've got my fingers crossed that he'll do well and stick with the big club.

He doesn't really cast well as a center. He is a prototypical big bodied winger. He has never shown the ability to produce and play center at even a good level, and his only elite play has been on the wing.

 

[Henkka]

He doesn't really cast well as a center. He is a prototypical big bodied winger. He has never shown the ability to produce and play center at even a good level, and his only elite play has been on the wing.

Ok, you just ignore these pre-season games. OF course small sample size, but "never shown" is very arrogant comment.

Was 28/51 = 54,9% in faceoffs also on those games. Scored 4 goals in 5 games. "Never shown ability to produce and play at center", yeah!

 

[Shaman464]

Ok, you just ignore these pre-season games. OF course small sample size, but "never shown" is very arrogant comment.

Was 28/51 = 54,9% in faceoffs also on those games. Scored 4 goals in 5 games. "Never shown ability to produce and play at center", yeah!

In games where most establish players either are mentally or physically checked out. Preseason isn't an indicator in any sport on how anyone plays. The year the Lions went 0-16 they were 4-0 in the preseason. The 2006 Tigers WS run they were below 500 in the preseason. And those are in sports where preseason actually matters. Hockey, and basketball both have exhibition style preseasons they are more about making some extra money than actually determining anything.

 

[Ezekial]

His 2-way game, tenacious fore-checking, and ability to win faceoffs don't translate to center because all he does is stand in front of the net.

Pre-season results don't matter, but the preseason is where you evaluate talent. The "pre-season doesn't matter" argument is untrue, a lot of careers have been created and ended in the preseason (more in terms of the NFL).

 

[ricky0034]

In games where most establish players either are mentally or physically checked out. Preseason isn't an indicator in any sport on how anyone plays. The year the Lions went 0-16 they were 4-0 in the preseason. The 2006 Tigers WS run they were below 500 in the preseason. And those are in sports where preseason actually matters. Hockey, and basketball both have exhibition style preseasons they are more about making some extra money than actually determining anything.

plus I mean lets not oversell his production in that preseason either

4 goals in 5 games is nice and all but he also had 0 assists and an almost 30% shooting percentage

 

[Shaman464]

His 2-way game, tenacious fore-checking, and ability to win faceoffs don't translate to center because all he does is stand in front of the net.

Pre-season results don't matter, but the preseason is where you evaluate talent. The "pre-season doesn't matter" argument is untrue, a lot of careers have been created and ended in the preseason (more in terms of the NFL).

His offensive game only really showed up when he converted to wing. He doesn't seem to have the IQ to both play the center game and put up a lot of points. The second he doesn't need focus on that his numbers took a huge step forward.

 

[Ezekial]

His offensive game only really showed up when he converted to wing. He doesn't seem to have the IQ to both play the center game and put up a lot of points. The second he doesn't need focus on that his numbers took a huge step forward.

It just happens to line up with him being fully healthy as well. I'm not going to define him by his playoff run as an elite prospect or a career winger.
He's a natural center, I know your position on the matter, you've made it very clear that you think he's a winger for over a year now.

 

[Shaman464]

It just happens to line up with him being fully healthy as well. I'm not going to define him by his playoff run as an elite prospect or a career winger.
He's a natural center, I know your position on the matter, you've made it very clear that you think he's a winger for over a year now.

He's defined well by his body of work as a center as a guy who looks to be a third pairing guy. With next year being massively center heavy and their drafting of a center in the first round this year, the Wings potentially have a lot of middle 6 centers, and maybe even a couple very good top line centers (depending on who they get next draft). This means that Ras can be left to play on the wing. Having a guy who can play two way and score on the wing of Larkin or next year's draft pick with Zadina and Mantha gives Detroit a very deep forward core.

 

[Frk It]

His offensive game only really showed up when he converted to wing. He doesn't seem to have the IQ to both play the center game and put up a lot of points. The second he doesn't need focus on that his numbers took a huge step forward.

Playing wing can free guys up offensively, but it doesn’t mean you can’t play center. We saw that with Filppula a bit. He really busted out offensively when he went to wing, but was always a solid center before that too.

Detroit probably has a future high pick coming at center more than likely, so they can probably line him up either way. May depend on match-ups, or injuries, or what have you. Could be one of those match-up killers in a playoff series as a 3C like Staal was for Pittsburgh, if Detroit was to return to a contender.

I don’t think he will be a drastically different player as a winger, and will probably be one of those guys you can put up and down your lineup.

 

[theVladiator]

Playing wing can free guys up offensively, but it doesn’t mean you can’t play center. We saw that with Filppula a bit. He really busted out offensively when he went to wing, but was always a solid center before that too.

Detroit probably has a future high pick coming at center more than likely, so they can probably line him up either way. May depend on match-ups, or injuries, or what have you. Could be one of those match-up killers in a playoff series as a 3C like Staal was for Pittsburgh, if Detroit was to return to a contender.

I don’t think he will be a drastically different player as a winger, and will probably be one of those guys you can put up and down your lineup.

As one of Rasmussen "detractors" this sums it up nicely for me, so maybe there is not so much disagreements between the sides here. There is just one caveat. It is *extremely* hard to find a top 6C or top pair D in the draft. I thought in 2017 there were two such players on board that had a good chance to develop into a top 6C (Vilardi) or a top pair D (Liljegren). This draft we saw several star potential wingers (Zadina, Wahlstrom, Kravtsov) fall in large part because of that C and D chase. I guess I am not convinced that somehow it will get easier in the next drafts.

Ultimately, this point of view is not as much criticism of Rasmussen (after all, acknowledging top 6 potential, albeit as a winger, is hardly a damning assessment) as it is criticism of front office.

 

[drw02]

Interestingly it appears team Canada is playing Rasmussen at 1C and centering top PP unit on team red.

 

[Shaman464]

He's defined well by his body of work as a center as a guy who looks to be a third pairing guy. With next year being massively center heavy and their drafting of a center in the first round this year, the Wings potentially have a lot of middle 6 centers, and maybe even a couple very good top line centers (depending on who they get next draft). This means that Ras can be left to play on the wing. Having a guy who can play two way and score on the wing of Larkin or next year's draft pick with Zadina and Mantha gives Detroit a very deep forward core.

Playing wing can free guys up offensively, but it doesn’t mean you can’t play center. We saw that with Filppula a bit. He really busted out offensively when he went to wing, but was always a solid center before that too.

Detroit probably has a future high pick coming at center more than likely, so they can probably line him up either way. May depend on match-ups, or injuries, or what have you. Could be one of those match-up killers in a playoff series as a 3C like Staal was for Pittsburgh, if Detroit was to return to a contender.

I don’t think he will be a drastically different player as a winger, and will probably be one of those guys you can put up and down your lineup.

As you see I pretty much say the same thing as you did.

 

[Frk It]

Interestingly it appears team Canada is playing Rasmussen at 1C and centering top PP unit on team red.

He’s definitely on the 1st PP, but these were the lines I saw:


Did someone else post different lines?

 

[Frk It]

As you see I pretty much say the same thing as you did.

Well it also seemed like you were saying he outright can’t play center in the pros. Or it pretty much read like that to me. I definitely don’t agree with that notion, I don’t see what he lacks to play center in the NHL.

 

[Shaman464]

Well it also seemed like you were saying he outright can’t play center in the pros. Or it pretty much read like that to me. I definitely don’t agree with that notion, I don’t see what he lacks to play center in the NHL.

I see him as a #3 guy in the NHL. I don’t think he has the tools to be a top 6 center in the NHL.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I don't dislike Rasmussen or anything like that, but I think a lot of people overestimate the success rate of prospects. I was having this discussion the other day in the Ranger section. A bunch got upset that I said the two later firsts we took were unlikely to ever be top 4 defensemen. And statistically I took a sample of five recent drafts in a row, and 50% of the defensemen taken in the first round were top 4D. It was a very small percentage among those taken in the latter 1/3 of the first round. So I wasn't wrong.

Some might be criticizing Rasmussen out of disliking his game, but its important to keep in mind that almost every first round prospect out there is overrated compared to the rhetoric surrounding them. Not every first round forward prospect will be a top 6 forward, not every first round defensemen will be a top 4 defensemen. With a guy like Rasmussen, he's probably no different in being overrated by some than the average prospect. The only difference is that some might actually be representing his upside fairly in an unintentional way. Some will try to sell us that he's a defensive minded 1C, Selke guy, David Backes, all that, but he probably will not. Chances are that he'll be a low-end second line guy or a high-end third line guy. That very well might fit in well for his pick slot in 10 years. That might not look bad once their careers unfold compared to the "flashy prospects" that some preferred, but at the same time keep in mind that Rasmussen is just as unlikely to fulfill his "potential" as some of these "flashy prospects."

There is no such thing as a "safe pick" or anything of that sort. Unless Rasmussen or the "safe pick" could step in and be a good NHL'er the day they are drafted, they are not a safe pick. There is still projection involved with nearly all of these "safe picks" becoming NHL'ers in the first place. Just to give a comparison to my own team again. A lot of fans get really upset if someone says that the consensus of "experts" pegs Andersson as a 2C or 3C. I think they are trying to protect the team from criticism. I see the same thing happening here. Why try to protect your team? Call the situation out for what it is. Your team took a different style player with a first round pick. Not a "flashy guy with big upside." They went for the middle of the lineup grinder who can do some of everything. Thats not necessarily a bad thing. It'll be determined eventually whether that was a smart pick or not, but don't sell Rasmussen to us as something that he's not.

 

[wingsnut19]

He doesn't really cast well as a center. He is a prototypical big bodied winger. He has never shown the ability to produce and play center at even a good level, and his only elite play has been on the wing.

I mean, I do agree that there were better picks to be made. I wanted one of Vilardi, Necas, Liljegren or Valimaki and was pretty miffed with the pick. I'm just trying to look positively on the situation, because at this point it is what it is.

 

[Shaman464]

I mean, I do agree that there were better picks to be made. I wanted one of Vilardi, Necas, Liljegren or Valimaki and was pretty miffed with the pick. I'm just trying to look positively on the situation, because at this point it is what it is.

Having a big bodied winger that can go to the dirty areas and play in front of the net isn't a bad thing to anchor a top 6 line.

 

[Pavels Dog]

His offensive game only really showed up when he converted to wing. He doesn't seem to have the IQ to both play the center game and put up a lot of points. The second he doesn't need focus on that his numbers took a huge step forward.

Really reaching to make a conclusion on his IQ.
The jump in production lined up both with getting healthy and finding chemistry with a good linemate (Geekie), so it’s hard to conclusively say it was all about playing wing. More context is needed. He looked good at C both in training camp and development camp and produced.
Maybe he doesn’t have the ability to be center with bad/mediocre linemates and put up huge points, but few do. We’re talking Crosbys, Datsyuks, Matthews etc, not even guy like Toews gets more than ~60 points without Hossa+Saad on his wings.

 

[Shaman464]

Really reaching to make a conclusion on his IQ.
The jump in production lined up both with getting healthy and finding chemistry with a good linemate (Geekie), so it’s hard to conclusively say it was all about playing wing. More context is needed. He looked good at C both in training camp and development camp and produced.
Maybe he doesn’t have the ability to be center with bad/mediocre linemates and put up huge points, but few do. We’re talking Crosbys, Datsyuks, Matthews etc, not even guy like Toews gets more than ~60 points without Hossa+Saad on his wings.

Its the WHL not the NHL, a great to elite player in the CHL can elevate their linemates and make them look better than they actually are. If he needs good linemates in the WHL to put up good numbers, than he really was a shit selection in the top 10.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Its the WHL not the NHL, a great to elite player in the CHL can elevate their linemates and make them look better than they actually are. If he needs good linemates in the WHL to put up good numbers, than he really was a **** selection in the top 10.

And lots of players in juniors put up huge numbers simply by being on stacked teams or because they give f*ck all about playing defense. You simply can’t look at numbers and make every conclusion about a player. His numbers at C are not as bad as you imply either, he was leading his team in production playing through injury which isn’t nothing.