C Michael Rasmussen - Tri-City Americans, WHL (2017, 9th, DET)

[Filthy Dangles]

I haven't watched him, like at all, so I'm statwatching but his D+1 production is identical to his D season.

Is this not a significant red flag...? Am I missing something

---

E: looks like he really turned it on in the playoffs

 

[HisNoodliness]

I haven't watched him, like at all, so I'm statwatching but his D+1 production is identical to his D season.

Is this not a significant red flag...? Am I missing something

On the one hand I wasn't a fan of the pick and definitely worry about his ability to be an offensive force beyond just a net-front PP specialist at the next level, however there were a lot of things to like about this season and reasons to be optimistic. He greatly improved his ES production and primary points. Furthermore his scoring pace improved in the latter half of the season when he returned from having surgery. He played his best hockey all year in the playoffs which is obviously a good sign. We'll see though. As I said, I wasn't a fan of the pick but I'm cautiously optimistic.

 

[Tryamkin]

I’ve always been a fan of this pick. I would’ve tried to trade down a bit to take him at 13/14, but he would’ve been someone I go after. His numbers are similar, but he missed games during the regular season. Before surgery he was in pain, and he came back from surgery a little early as he left a bit rushed to prove himself. As he felt better you could see his talent and confidence soar, especially in the playoffs when he had a 3 or 4 PPG pace at times. He has the potential to be a 1st line center, and that’s not an overreaction. I think he’ll end up as somewhat of a 1B center option.

 

[Petes2424]

I’ve always been a fan of this pick. I would’ve tried to trade down a bit to take him at 13/14, but he would’ve been someone I go after. His numbers are similar, but he missed games during the regular season. Before surgery he was in pain, and he came back from surgery a little early as he left a bit rushed to prove himself. As he felt better you could see his talent and confidence soar, especially in the playoffs when he had a 3 or 4 PPG pace at times. He has the potential to be a 1st line center, and that’s not an overreaction. I think he’ll end up as somewhat of a 1B center option.

The greatest thing about the Rasmussen debate is, we are all going to get to see how his NHL career starts panning out sooner than many of his detractors thought we would. That said, he's the best example on these boards of why people need to watch a player before pretending they're an expert. Especially in regards to a stat 95% of scouts would laugh off in regards to it being applied to a 17 year old kid, they've actually scouted. There's a reason he was placed where he was by CS.

 

[Tryamkin]

The greatest thing about the Rasmussen debate is, we are all going to get to see how his NHL career starts panning out sooner than many of his detractors thought we would. That said, he's the best example on these boards of why people need to watch a player before pretending they're an expert. Especially in regards to a stat 95% of scouts would laugh off in regards to it being applied to a 17 year old kid, they've actually scouted. There's a reason he was placed where he was by CS.

Yep, all of the stat watchers on the site wrote him off, looking at his ES points and other silly stats that are irrelevant when watching him play.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

Yep, all of the stat watchers on the site wrote him off, looking at his ES points and other silly stats that are irrelevant when watching him play.

Speaking as one of Rasmussen's detractors, I've seen him play. He doesn't really move me. I prefer flashier puck possession type players, and I'm not really a fan of deflections and dirty goals. I think he'll be an effective enough NHL player, but not anything crazy. I don't think his playoff stats are a good reflection of his NHL offensive upside.

 

[Tryamkin]

Speaking as one of Rasmussen's detractors, I've seen him play. He doesn't really move me. I prefer flashier puck possession type players, and I'm not really a fan of deflections and dirty goals. I think he'll be an effective enough NHL player, but not anything crazy. I don't think his playoff stats are a good reflection of his NHL offensive upside.

Who doesn’t prefer “flashier” players? He gets the job done and has some nice upside that’s harshly overlooked.

 

[tfong]

I mean i feel he will be an adequate NHLer. Just not a high impact one offensively.

Martin Hanzal or something along those lines if we're lucky.

 

[newfy]

Then that's cherry picking to make your argument, which we often seen regarding Detroit with the exception of Blashill.

No it isnt. Its basically the time period where he returned from mid season surgery (for an injury that was bugging him to start the season) to the end of his teams playoff run. Prospects also develo over the course of a season, I would rather see one finish strong than have a really hot start and tail off but regardless of that this was a season where an injury played a huge role.

People want to use that sample size for Vilardi and call him a top 5 prospect after he returned from injury that needed surgery than the same logic should apply for Rasmussen to an extent. Including playoffs where the intensity is higher shouldnt have a positive impact on his points per game but it does.

I think the Wings plan on starting him at wing, but as Tryamkin said, he'll be a center long-term for sure.

Yeah they've come out and said this. They expect him to start at wing like Larkin did and learn the NHL then in year 2 or 3 make the switch to center. I dont think the wings like giving young centers all the responsibility right off the get go and want them to get their feet wet a bit first

 

[Petes2424]

Who doesn’t prefer “flashier” players? He gets the job done and has some nice upside that’s harshly overlooked.

Big all around Cs who can drive to the net, score dirty goals but still rely and play a possession game don't grow on trees.

Look what MS provides the Jets. Very similar all around players at the same age, including the pre draft knock about PP vs ES points, which should now be meaningless after this past season and playoff. The kid scored 23 ES points in 14 playoff games.

Ultimately it's up to Rasmussen if he has the same commitment to succeed as MS has. The attributes are all there.

One of the write ups about MS before the 11' draft.

'While Scheifele's EV/PP point ratio may raise a red flag for some, I think the fact that he was a rookie being fed some peachy circumstances by his coach has to be taken into consideration. I'd be a lot more concerned if we were talking about a 19 or 20-year old player who had already been drafted and was playing alongside much younger teammates and piling up points with the man advantage.'

 

[Filthy Dangles]

Big all around Cs who can drive to the net, score dirty goals but still rely and play a possession game don't grow on trees.

Look what MS provides the Jets. Very similar all around players at the same age, including the pre draft knock about PP vs ES points, which should now be meaningless after this past season and playoff. The kid scored 23 ES points in 14 playoff games.

Ultimately it's up to Rasmussen if he has the same commitment to succeed as MS has. The attributes are all there.

One of the write ups about MS before the 11' draft.

'While Scheifele's EV/PP point ratio may raise a red flag for some, I think the fact that he was a rookie being fed some peachy circumstances by his coach has to be taken into consideration. I'd be a lot more concerned if we were talking about a 19 or 20-year old player who had already been drafted and was playing alongside much younger teammates and piling up points with the man advantage.'

General question. Where do you go to see points by Strength and primary/secondary for CHL players? I generally use HockeyDb and EP and don't see it broken down by strength or primary points anywhere on those sites.

 

[Scott Malkinson]

All 6 CHL forwards drafted in the 1st round, after Rasmussen, had a better season than he did.

Owen Tippett
Gabe Vilardi
Nick Suzuki
Robert Thomas
Kailer Yamamoto
Morgan Frost

This was a bad pick at 9th overall.

 

[Dominance]

All 6 CHL forwards drafted in the 1st round, after Rasmussen, had a better season than he did.

Owen Tippett
Gabe Vilardi
Nick Suzuki
Robert Thomas
Kailer Yamamoto
Morgan Frost

This was a bad pick at 9th overall.

Maybe not great, but not bad. Very few of those guys can provide the level of physical and defensive play Rasmussen can, and their means of generating offence is less projectable to the NHL.

 

[Tryamkin]

All 6 CHL forwards drafted in the 1st round, after Rasmussen, had a better season than he did.

Owen Tippett
Gabe Vilardi
Nick Suzuki
Robert Thomas
Kailer Yamamoto
Morgan Frost

This was a bad pick at 9th overall.

I highly disagree. He was injured the entire season and plagued by surgery and nuances of said injury. He was a monster in the playoffs.

 

[Dotter]

Speaking as one of Rasmussen's detractors, I've seen him play. He doesn't really move me. I prefer flashier puck possession type players, and I'm not really a fan of deflections and dirty goals. I think he'll be an effective enough NHL player, but not anything crazy. I don't think his playoff stats are a good reflection of his NHL offensive upside.

Watching him play against NHLers in last years exhibition was impressive to me. He wasn't dangling flashy, but he sure was effective and has a very underrated shot and dominated play (and had times where he was the best player on the ice). Looked very promising and fun to watch.

He's going to be a good (if not great) NHLer.

 

[Whoshattenkirkshoes]

Watching him play against NHLers in last years exhibition was impressive to me. He wasn't dangling flashy, but he sure was effective and has a very underrated shot and dominated play (and had times where he was the best player on the ice). Looked very promising and fun to watch.

He's going to be a good (if not great) NHLer.

Agree he won’t be flashy, but he will be hard to play against. We didn’t pass on Nico Hischier. I don’t see the problem with the pick

 

[raymond23]

All 6 CHL forwards drafted in the 1st round, after Rasmussen, had a better season than he did.

Owen Tippett
Gabe Vilardi
Nick Suzuki
Robert Thomas
Kailer Yamamoto
Morgan Frost

This was a bad pick at 9th overall.

This wasn't unexpected though.

I'd hope a tiny guy like Nick Suzuki outproduces Rasmussen or there's not much hope for him. DRW didn't draft Rasmussen in hopes of him becoming some incredible producer. They drafted him because he brings way more elements to his game that the others simply don't.

You can take issue with that definitely, but just pointing out production levels (and conveniently not mentioning his tremendous post-surgery production, including the playoffs) is kind of a shallow argument.

Besides, ignoring useless comparisons, Ras is still tracking to be a quality scoring forward.

 

[Scott Malkinson]

This wasn't unexpected though.

I'd hope a tiny guy like Nick Suzuki outproduces Rasmussen or there's not much hope for him. DRW didn't draft Rasmussen in hopes of him becoming some incredible producer. They drafted him because he brings way more elements to his game that the others simply don't.

You can take issue with that definitely, but just pointing out production levels (and conveniently not mentioning his tremendous post-surgery production, including the playoffs) is kind of a shallow argument.

Besides, ignoring useless comparisons, Ras is still tracking to be a quality scoring forward.

There were players available in the teens and 20's that are equally as promising as Rasmussen, if not more promising.

There is no reason Detroit should have taken him at 9th.

My point isn't that he's a bad player because he's not. My point is he was severely over-drafted.

 

[raymond23]

There were players available in the teens and 20's that are equally as promising as Rasmussen, if not more promising.

There is no reason Detroit should have taken him at 9th.

My point isn't that he's a bad player because he's not. My point is he was severely over-drafted.

Fair enough. I just hate the production angle of it.

 

[HisNoodliness]

There were players available in the teens and 20's that are equally as promising as Rasmussen, if not more promising.

There is no reason Detroit should have taken him at 9th.

My point isn't that he's a bad player because he's not. My point is he was severely over-drafted.

He's not the guy I wanted at 9, in fact he was the one guy I really didn't want. Almost everyone on here agrees that there were players available that they would have preferred (and those that weren't convinced then certainly won't be now). We could have done better with the pick...this is getting a little (a lot) old now though. The draft is a year ago, it doesn't really matter who else we could have taken now.

If you have any insight into the player besides "those taken after him are better," then great, but if you don't, then we've heard it, said it, shouted it from the tops of mountains, and debated it to death so that's not exactly a meaningful take anymore.

Personally, I'm happy that Rasmussen showed some improvement in his worrying areas this year. His primary points, and ES production improved. He also continues to develop a complete game. Will he be more than a 3C+ net front PP at the NHL level? Personally, I don't think so but I'm happy that his development is tracking to be at least that. He can still be a useful piece, where he was taken doesn't change that.

 

[Hen Kolland]

There were players available in the teens and 20's that are equally as promising as Rasmussen, if not more promising.

There is no reason Detroit should have taken him at 9th.

My point isn't that he's a bad player because he's not. My point is he was severely over-drafted.

I think you forgot to add the part where you state that this is your opinion. Based on some sort of deeply embedded bias against Rasmussen for some reason. Nobody cares if your opinion is that he was over-drafted one year after his draft. We will let his development and production speak for itself, and if at the end of the day he's a bust, well then he's a bust.

Detroit thought he was worth selecting at 9...there is all the reason they need to select him at 9. He's not a reach to the franchise, and his development has him on the fast track to the NHL. Safe to say the franchise is probably even more comfortable with him now than they were when they made the pick a year ago.

 

[Pavels Dog]

All 6 CHL forwards drafted in the 1st round, after Rasmussen, had a better season than he did.

Owen Tippett
Gabe Vilardi
Nick Suzuki
Robert Thomas
Kailer Yamamoto
Morgan Frost

This was a bad pick at 9th overall.

Tippett : 80 points in 57 games = 1.40 PTS/G
Vilardi: 80 points in 48 games =1.67 PTS/G
Suzuki: 112 points in 75 games: 1.49 PTS/G
Thomas: 107 points in 70 games: 1.52 PTS/G
Yamamoto: 68 points in 47 games: 1.45 PTS/G
Frost: 141 points in 91 games: 1.55 PTS/G

Rasmussen: 92 points in 61 games: 1.51 PTS/G

So Rasmussen had better production than 3 guys on your list, and 0.01-0.04 pts/game less than two of them.

Post-surgery, Rasmussen produced on par or better than Vilardi even.

 

[WingsMJN2965]

Tippett : 80 points in 57 games = 1.40 PTS/G
Vilardi: 80 points in 48 games =1.67 PTS/G
Suzuki: 112 points in 75 games: 1.49 PTS/G
Thomas: 107 points in 70 games: 1.52 PTS/G
Yamamoto: 68 points in 47 games: 1.45 PTS/G
Frost: 141 points in 91 games: 1.55 PTS/G

Rasmussen: 92 points in 61 games: 1.51 PTS/G

So Rasmussen had better production than 3 guys on your list, and 0.1-0.4 pts/game less than two of them.

Post-surgery, Rasmussen produced on par or better than Vilardi even.

... And I'd venture to guess none of those other guys are 6' 6" 230...

 

[Ulysses31]

No expert but Id take rasmussen over any of those 1st CHL picks..Vilardi is on par but i think Rasmussen has a higher upside with his size/skating/scoring touch.

Posts above nailed it.

 

[lilidk]

Tippett : 80 points in 57 games = 1.40 PTS/G
Vilardi: 80 points in 48 games =1.67 PTS/G
Suzuki: 112 points in 75 games: 1.49 PTS/G
Thomas: 107 points in 70 games: 1.52 PTS/G
Yamamoto: 68 points in 47 games: 1.45 PTS/G
Frost: 141 points in 91 games: 1.55 PTS/G

Rasmussen: 92 points in 61 games: 1.51 PTS/G

So Rasmussen had better production than 3 guys on your list, and 0.01-0.04 pts/game less than two of them.

Post-surgery, Rasmussen produced on par or better than Vilardi even.

Remember Holland was looking for leadership at last year draft . This year Tkachuk is player like that . This kind of players bring the best during playoff . One thing kind of bother me about him that most of his points he got on PP. It is nice , but I wish he produced more 5 on 5