C Michael Rasmussen - Tri-City Americans, WHL (2017, 9th, DET)

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

Preseason is just part of it. He had a great one against a bunch of guys trying to win NHL jobs. If its based off of actual production you havent looked at his production. His last 40 games of the season last year he was the most productive CHL player drafted in the first round that year. Production is the one thing where you dont need goggles, you look at the numbers. His were great, especially post surgery. If flashiness isnt the issue than you dont have a leg to stand on

Have you even looked at his production from last year or just in here spouting off crap about a player you dont know much about?

Yes, he had a good spring when he was switched to wing; I don't dispute that, but it's a small sample size. Up until his injury, he was having a pedestrian +1. I've watched Rasmussen play a lot of hockey, I've seen the stats, and I've seen the analytics. You think the amount of controversy regarding his upside is mere haters going to hate?

 

[newfy]

Yes, he had a good spring when he was switched to wing; I don't dispute that, but it's a small sample size. Up until his injury, he was having a pedestrian +1. I've watched Rasmussen play a lot of hockey, I've seen the stats, and I've seen the analytics. You think the amount of controversy regarding his upside is mere haters going to hate?

His numbers were solid, but not spectacular to start the year but it seems like you dont know much about him when you say up until the injury. He played the whole first half of the season with an injury that needed surgery, basically trying to hold onto a world junior shot. He got the wrist injury fixed and dominated. You make it sound like he was fine, got hurt then came back and played well but he was hurt from the start of the season until December 30th when he went out for surgery. If you didnt know that, I really dont trust your opinion on the player to be honest.

As for the controversy, there were definitely questions right at the time of the draft and some questions about upside. I think after the end to last season that he had,a ll of those should be put to bed. A healthy Rasmussen outproduced everyone else drafted from the CHL at the level a top 10 pick should. At this point he is playing like a top 10 pick and people still holding on to draft day concerns are "haters" that are unable to shift their opinion because of that. The sample size of him post injury was over half a seasons worth of games (~40) which is all it took Vilardi to play this year for people to talk about how much better he is than Rasmussen. Despite the fact that hes smaller, worse defensively and a worse skater

 

[theVladiator]

His numbers were solid, but not spectacular to start the year but it seems like you dont know much about him when you say up until the injury. He played the whole first half of the season with an injury that needed surgery, basically trying to hold onto a world junior shot. He got the wrist injury fixed and dominated. You make it sound like he was fine, got hurt then came back and played well but he was hurt from the start of the season until December 30th when he went out for surgery. If you didnt know that, I really dont trust your opinion on the player to be honest.

As for the controversy, there were definitely questions right at the time of the draft and some questions about upside. I think after the end to last season that he had,a ll of those should be put to bed. A healthy Rasmussen outproduced everyone else drafted from the CHL at the level a top 10 pick should. At this point he is playing like a top 10 pick and people still holding on to draft day concerns are "haters" that are unable to shift their opinion because of that. The sample size of him post injury was over half a seasons worth of games (~40) which is all it took Vilardi to play this year for people to talk about how much better he is than Rasmussen. Despite the fact that hes smaller, worse defensively and a worse skater

Dude, you need to learn to live with a difference of opinion. Concerns raised about Rassmussen (that I happen to share, but that's not the point) are not of the kind that can be resolved by comparative junior stats. Come to think of it, not much can be resolved using comparative junior stats, but that's not the point either. The point is, nobody can be proven right or wrong for a few years. Please figure out how to live with that until then.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Yes, he had a good spring when he was switched to wing; I don't dispute that, but it's a small sample size. Up until his injury, he was having a pedestrian +1. I've watched Rasmussen play a lot of hockey, I've seen the stats, and I've seen the analytics. You think the amount of controversy regarding his upside is mere haters going to hate?

He played the year with the injured wrist pre-surgery, so that production was with the injury to start the year.

The guy plays a NHL game with a massive frame. He scores on the PP and in dirty areas, good deal that is where lots of guys make their money and rack up points in the league. He is going to be one of the biggest guys in the league within a year or two of playing and enters the league as a man like he showed during the pre-season against NHL, AHL and drafted major junior players in camp last year.

I honestly don't have any concern about Rasmussen at this point. I would have gone Necas at the time and I still like him. But Rasmussen has an incredibly intriguing ceiling as well when people downgrade that as one of his problems. A 6'6" 240 lbs two-way player that feasts on the PP and in dirty areas and can play all three forward spots, yeah that sounds like tons of fun for the opposition.

We will start to see it this fall, he will become a regular at 19 like Larkin and Fischer though and there is a reason for that. He isn't lacking in talent or hockey IQ, I really don't understand those trumpeting that narrative anymore.

 

[newfy]

Dude, you need to learn to live with a difference of opinion. Concerns raised about Rassmussen (that I happen to share, but that's not the point) are not of the kind that can be resolved by comparative junior stats. Come to think of it, not much can be resolved using comparative junior stats, but that's not the point either. The point is, nobody can be proven right or wrong for a few years. Please figure out how to live with that until then.

I'm fine with a difference in opinion. I didnt even love the Rasmussen pick to begin with, but last season he absolutely played like a 9th overall pick should be expected to and will call out BS on here when I see it.

The guy I responded to said all the criticism of this pick is merited, said a bunch of crap that a lot of people wouldnt actually agree with, and then claimed that this is all true. I changed his wording to "this is all my opinion" because thats exactly what it is. After I said why I didnt think it was true, he said the stats were a big reason why. I went on to say that his production after surgery was the best of all the CHL drafted players that year, which is what should be expected of a 9th overall pick. If someone wants to call a player out (like some wings posters have) about not liking his style of play or not being flashy, thats fine. Hes an effective player but not flashy.

However, saying that the statistics show hes a mediocre pick (and to take my goggles off) is a blatant lie. Numbers dont lie, his were some of the best in the CHL after his surgery. Dont like his style, sure. Dont like his numbers, you dont know what youre talking about. And any poster passing off like they know a lot about Rasmussen, but not knowing he played the first half of the season needing surgery I'll call out too.

Dont make up BS reasons for not liking a pick and I wouldnt say anything. I find it funny how you arent a fan of the pick but tell me to learn to live with it, but havent mentioned anything to people who actually dislike the pick. I think that has more to do with it than youre letting on

 

[theVladiator]

I'm fine with a difference in opinion. I didnt even love the Rasmussen pick to begin with, but last season he absolutely played like a 9th overall pick should be expected to and will call out BS on here when I see it.

The guy I responded to said all the criticism of this pick is merited, said a bunch of crap that a lot of people wouldnt actually agree with, and then claimed that this is all true. I changed his wording to "this is all my opinion" because thats exactly what it is. After I said why I didnt think it was true, he said the stats were a big reason why. I went on to say that his production after surgery was the best of all the CHL drafted players that year, which is what should be expected of a 9th overall pick. If someone wants to call a player out (like some wings posters have) about not liking his style of play or not being flashy, thats fine. Hes an effective player but not flashy.

However, saying that the statistics show hes a mediocre pick (and to take my goggles off) is a blatant lie. Numbers dont lie, his were some of the best in the CHL after his surgery. Dont like his style, sure. Dont like his numbers, you dont know what youre talking about. And any poster passing off like they know a lot about Rasmussen, but not knowing he played the first half of the season needing surgery I'll call out too.

Dont make up BS reasons for not liking a pick and I wouldnt say anything. I find it funny how you arent a fan of the pick but tell me to learn to live with it, but havent mentioned anything to people who actually dislike the pick. I think that has more to do with it than youre letting on

I think I can let you on everything, since you are having concerns. I have addressed my message to you because your messages have been consistently much more emotional than the other fellow. But yes, I do not think he is right in saying that there are some metrics and stats to support concerns about Rasmussen. At least personally I am not aware of any hockey IQ and vision metrics. I recall there were people that brought up his lack of ES production pre-draft. However, I am not a stat fiend, so it doesn't really mean too much to me.

 

[Frk It]

He was definitely better after his injury, but the 2 playoff series where he was 3 ppg really skew things, and both goalies he played were pretty small goalies. Kelowna’s goalie they faced is listed at 5’11” and 157 lbs. Outhouse has been a decent Junior goalie, but checking his thread seems like he is a train wreck when he is off his game.

The ‘18 draft makes me feel better about things and I’m ‘OK’ with this pick as of now, but my opinion on him is mostly the same. (As is the case with most players 1 year after their draft.) I was happy to see his assist totals and ES production increase. Ultimately I still see him probably being a solid player like Bjugstad or Hanzal. Which are good players to have. Don’t see the skill set where I’d personally bank on him being much more, but I’m fine with being wrong on that.

He seems like a hard working kid, so he will probably maximize his potential as much as he can. I also like how he brings different elements to the table as opposed to Larkin and Veleno. That trio is also a very athletic young center group, if nothing else.

 

[newfy]

I think I can let you on everything, since you are having concerns. I have addressed my message to you because your messages have been consistently much more emotional than the other fellow. But yes, I do not think he is right in saying that there are some metrics and stats to support concerns about Rasmussen. At least personally I am not aware of any hockey IQ and vision metrics. I recall there were people that brought up his lack of ES production pre-draft. However, I am not a stat fiend, so it doesn't really mean too much to me.

They may come across that way but trust me, I'm not emotional about a person on the internets opinion about a 19 year old hockey player lol. I just dont think the logic comes across at all with his criticisms and really the lack of logic with a lot of wings fans now and negative for no reason attitude is making this website harder and harder to read.

Like I said, no issue with guys who dont like his style or anything, but its guys who say things like his stats suck when they actually dont just make this website worse.

 

[ricky0034]

my biggest issue with Rasmussen aside from just plain thinking guys like Vilardi and Necas are better is that I just don't see him as a Center in the NHL

i've felt that way since the beginning and feel it stronger than ever now and it drops his value compared to those other guys even further

he'll be an NHLer but that pick will continue to look ugly when it's all said and done compared to other guys taken after him that really shouldn't have been

 

[wingsnut19]

my biggest issue with Rasmussen aside from just plain thinking guys like Vilardi and Necas are better is that I just don't see him as a Center in the NHL

i've felt that way since the beginning and feel it stronger than ever now and it drops his value compared to those other guys even further

he'll be an NHLer but that pick will continue to look ugly when it's all said and done compared to other guys taken after him that really shouldn't have been

What makes Vilardi seem like a center at the NHL level and Rasmussen not? Genuinely curious, as I've not really watched either play other than highlights.

 

[ricky0034]

What makes Vilardi seem like a center at the NHL level and Rasmussen not? Genuinely curious, as I've not really watched either play other than highlights.

it's not so much that I don't think he's capable of playing Center as it is a case of thinking he has a lot more potential on the Wing,his offensive strengths around the net and such match up a lot better to playing on the Wing which is a belief that his Playoffs only reinforced

could he play Center? probably,but I don't feel like he has the offensive ceiling to be a top 6 guy if he were to go that route in the NHL whereas on the Wing he does

I could see him a bottom six Center if he "busts",I think that's what his floor would look like

 

[theVladiator]

What makes Vilardi seem like a center at the NHL level and Rasmussen not? Genuinely curious, as I've not really watched either play other than highlights.

My take on this is that I mostly see him picking a passing option that exists within 10 feet. It just doesn't seem like he is aware of options developing further than that. This isn't a good sign for a center because most of the time they will be controlling the play, distributing the puck accordingly, even if they are really good at shooting. Same goes for defensive responsibilities. So naturally I think the chances of him becoming a top 6 player are much higher as a winger. But in the bottom 6 the game is more straightforward, so I guess he could be a C there. Vilardi, from what I have seen, is much better in the vision and passing department, so I think center position suits him better.

I do not want to pretend to know more than other non-scouts that overwhelm these boards. But, I have yet to see somebody to come forward and comment on Rasmussen vision and playmaking in a positive way. All bullish comments begin and end with his excellent stats in the 2nd half of the season. Unfortunately, that makes me a bit more confident in my own observations.

 

[GoBoltz56]

He played alot of center for Detroit last pre-season, and he won pretty much every faceoff i saw him take. He also led the team in goals if I remember correctly (as a center).

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

He played alot of center for Detroit last pre-season, and he won pretty much every faceoff i saw him take. He also led the team in goals if I remember correctly (as a center).

He is a very good faceoff man. I think at times we get a little rigid in terms of thinking on position.

Detroit will likely play Rasmussen with a winger that prefers to play the F3 playmaking role at times or at least someone with that flexibility. If he has a player with that understanding he can play lower in the offensive zone when times dictate that. But he is a big faceoff guy and when possible will anchor the defensive zone in the middle as he clogs the middle with his massive frame but is agile enough and explosive enough to man that responsibility defensively.

Kariya for years played what was essentially the centers role as soon as his line was in the offensive zone. Zetterberg and Filppula swapped this for instance when they were linemates. You can see the interchange of F1, F2 and F3 a lot throughout your typical hockey game. While Rasmussen will play the wing to break in, I expect him to be a center in large part because of his faceoff skills and defensive tools. They interchange roles though a lot in terms of responsibility in the NHL. So there will be times he is essentially in a classic winger crashing the net mode he just needs to understand his puck and man support. I think he is smart enough to do that and I have seen him show above average understanding of this when watching him and that is a skill that gets better over time and with linemate familiarity.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

He was definitely better after his injury, but the 2 playoff series where he was 3 ppg really skew things, and both goalies he played were pretty small goalies. Kelowna’s goalie they faced is listed at 5’11” and 157 lbs. Outhouse has been a decent Junior goalie, but checking his thread seems like he is a train wreck when he is off his game.

The ‘18 draft makes me feel better about things and I’m ‘OK’ with this pick as of now, but my opinion on him is mostly the same. (As is the case with most players 1 year after their draft.) I was happy to see his assist totals and ES production increase. Ultimately I still see him probably being a solid player like Bjugstad or Hanzal. Which are good players to have. Don’t see the skill set where I’d personally bank on him being much more, but I’m fine with being wrong on that.

He seems like a hard working kid, so he will probably maximize his potential as much as he can. I also like how he brings different elements to the table as opposed to Larkin and Veleno. That trio is also a very athletic young center group, if nothing else.

In one of those he abused fellow first round pick Cal Foote though. I mean that is worth noting, is it not?

Edit: Sorry Frk It should have pointed out I really like the last paragraph that is a part of what I like about this. For those that really only see him as a winger the Wings aren't supposed to be great next year or couple if we are being honest. What if they wind up with a BPA center in 2019 or 2020, I know Hughes in the dream but let's just say they wind up with a top 6 center instead of D-man because that is just how the board works out. Well how do you feel about letting Larkin, Rasmussen, Veleno and Prospect X from 2019 fight out down the middle for the top three lines? I actually feel pretty darn good about it and that is an important part of the rebuild. You have three centers and a really intriguing winger kicked out wide that has faceoff ability and 200 foot responsibility to his game assuming player X does because the first three do.

 

[Frk It]

In one of those he abused fellow first round pick Cal Foote though. I mean that is worth noting, is it not?

For sure it is.

 

[Pavels Dog]

He impressed me with his playmaking in development camp. I think he has vision. He’ll never be Datsyuk but Larkin isn’t and he nearly had 50 assists. It’s not necessary to make a bunch of low%, crazy passes to be a good center in the NHL. Look at Rasmussen setting up Zadina for the winner at dev camp for the kind of plays he’ll probably make a lot of.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

He impressed me with his playmaking in development camp. I think he has vision. He’ll never be Datsyuk but Larkin isn’t and he nearly had 50 assists. It’s not necessary to make a bunch of low%, crazy passes to be a good center in the NHL. Look at Rasmussen setting up Zadina for the winner at dev camp for the kind of plays he’ll probably make a lot of.

He plays with his head up, which can be a problem for big guys. That is one of the things I really like about him. He has the ability to drive in deep but the awareness of what his movement is disrupting and he keeps his eyes scanning. Obviously they are about to do a better job of closing on him and taking away space and lanes, but that is important and something I really saw more of this year, but I also didn't see him as much in his draft season as I didn't have the WHL streaming service like I did this year. I really enjoyed his play style a lot, I think that is one of the things that bothers me out of a lot of his detractors. It is a more meat and potatoes kind of hockey but it is easy also to see where it translates forward. He is good at using his size and reach. He keeps plays alive shielding the puck and driving low with speed. But he has good awareness when doing it in my opinion and he reads and uses teammates well.

Part of what makes him a gifted PP player is his understanding of time and space. That is critical at the next level and I think he has that part of hockey IQ down. He is good at disrupting the angles you want to use to attack him and really maximizes his frame a lot both as a puck protector and defender to take away the opposition's time on the puck.

He also for a big guy isn't one I found myself criticizing to move his feet more, which is really good. He is a start and stop guy despite his frame and he competes hard for ice both offensively and defensively.

 

[drw02]

He impressed me with his playmaking in development camp. I think he has vision. He’ll never be Datsyuk but Larkin isn’t and he nearly had 50 assists. It’s not necessary to make a bunch of low%, crazy passes to be a good center in the NHL. Look at Rasmussen setting up Zadina for the winner at dev camp for the kind of plays he’ll probably make a lot of.

Pretty much my thoughts as well. Wasn't a fan of the pick when it happened, had a slow D+1 start but the context of his injury and dominant 2nd half provided some hope. Got a good look at him at the dev camp and he was impressive. He looked like he had the skills to be a legit top 6 NHL center imo. I think his hands, vision/passing are better than he gets credit for. Only negative that stood out was his lack of agility being that size, but he's smart and protects the puck so well I'm not sure it will hurt him much.

 

[Frolov 6'3]

The sample size of him post injury was over half a seasons worth of games (~40) which is all it took Vilardi to play this year for people to talk about how much better he is than Rasmussen. Despite the fact that hes smaller, worse defensively and a worse skater

Almost the whole draftclass of 2017 is smaller than Rasmussen and a better skater than Vilardi.

Great arguments......especially if you consider the fact that Vilardi is 6’3” 220 lbs himself...

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Almost the whole draftclass of 2017 is smaller than Rasmussen and a better skater than Vilardi.

Great arguments......especially if you consider the fact that Vilardi is 6’3” 220 lbs himself...

Yet we somehow should be worried that Rasmussen's production cannot carry straight over into the NHL because he is just bullying juniors. However, he is a massive guy that moves well those are selling points, they are a problem for the men playing in the NHL as well. I mean he seems like a Bjugstad at worst kind of deal and somehow that is the worst pick of that draft and we are ignoring how good his production is, how he produces in the areas of the ice that pros produce in and guess what he has the build and hockey IQ to continue producing there at the next level.

I mean I am tired of the Vilardi talk as a Wings fan. I wish him luck with the Kings, they are an organization that has developed heavier guys some not with the greatest feet before. I think it was an ideal landing spot for him to at least try being a center at the NHL with cover from two vets in Carter and Kopitar. But he wasn't even in the conversation when the Wings walked to the podium last year. I know that from people I trust around the team, they graded him out as a winger only not believing he could play center at the NHL level and he wasn't in the tier of players they were discussing with the pick in terms of his board placement on their 2017 board. Call them out for that sure, but it is fascinating that so many are focused on a player that had utterly no chance of being a Red Wings player unless he fell to the second round... Time will tell but they had him down their board like several other teams, they just weren't very high on him. Necas is a different story.

Now the Wings just gambled on a draft slider like Vilardi hoping people were wrong about Veleno in a similar fashion not because of they physical limitations to his game but rather they are gambling that he really does have a better offensive ceiling. That is a part of the process. But the Wings went with the guy at the top of their board that they believe was the best player available and with the best possible ceiling. I know Tyler Wright said a lot about character instead of flashy selling points but that isn't really Rasmussen. He is a meat and potatoes player that plays in the tough areas, competes hard and uses his IQ over the full 200 feet. I don't think he is a superstar but he is going to be a tough guy to play against and a weapon in certain matchups. Those players are good to have. He is a chalk talk player for the other team for sure in my opinion within a couple years.

 

[newfy]

Almost the whole draftclass of 2017 is smaller than Rasmussen and a better skater than Vilardi.

Great arguments......especially if you consider the fact that Vilardi is 6’3” 220 lbs himself...

Yeah exactly. Size and good skating are 2 of the aspects that get guys drafted highly and become productive in the NHL. Vilardi is considered big at 6'3 but the difference from him and your average 6 foot player is the same as the difference from Rasmussen and Vilardi.

Vilardi is a big player, Rasmussen could end up one of, if not the biggest players in the entire league once Chara and Myers are gone. Certainly a good chance of being the biggest forward in the entire league

 

[Claypool]

Loving all this VIlardi talk. Who's this Michael Rasmussen guy?

 

[Go Wings]

Yet we somehow should be worried that Rasmussen's production cannot carry straight over into the NHL because he is just bullying juniors. However, he is a massive guy that moves well those are selling points, they are a problem for the men playing in the NHL as well. I mean he seems like a Bjugstad at worst kind of deal and somehow that is the worst pick of that draft and we are ignoring how good his production is, how he produces in the areas of the ice that pros produce in and guess what he has the build and hockey IQ to continue producing there at the next level.

I mean I am tired of the Vilardi talk as a Wings fan. I wish him luck with the Kings, they are an organization that has developed heavier guys some not with the greatest feet before. I think it was an ideal landing spot for him to at least try being a center at the NHL with cover from two vets in Carter and Kopitar. But he wasn't even in the conversation when the Wings walked to the podium last year. I know that from people I trust around the team, they graded him out as a winger only not believing he could play center at the NHL level and he wasn't in the tier of players they were discussing with the pick in terms of his board placement on their 2017 board. Call them out for that sure, but it is fascinating that so many are focused on a player that had utterly no chance of being a Red Wings player unless he fell to the second round... Time will tell but they had him down their board like several other teams, they just weren't very high on him. Necas is a different story.

Now the Wings just gambled on a draft slider like Vilardi hoping people were wrong about Veleno in a similar fashion not because of they physical limitations to his game but rather they are gambling that he really does have a better offensive ceiling. That is a part of the process. But the Wings went with the guy at the top of their board that they believe was the best player available and with the best possible ceiling. I know Tyler Wright said a lot about character instead of flashy selling points but that isn't really Rasmussen. He is a meat and potatoes player that plays in the tough areas, competes hard and uses his IQ over the full 200 feet. I don't think he is a superstar but he is going to be a tough guy to play against and a weapon in certain matchups. Those players are good to have. He is a chalk talk player for the other team for sure in my opinion within a couple years.

Interesting insights what did they think of Necas?

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Interesting insights what did they think of Necas?

He was in the discussion with Rasmussen when it came time to pick but lower on their board. The same tier of player though if you will.