Burns and Karlsson VS Tavares and Matthews

[glucker]

And those are all fine and dandy, and could potentially be predictors of future performance, but Burns was just a finalist for the Ted Lindsay Award. And he just outscored Matthews for the second season in a row, despite being a defenseman.



Yeah, obviously long term you take the centers due to age. But suggesting that Karlsson and Burns headed for a retirement home and Tavares is a spring chicken is just inaccurate when Burns and Karlsson were top-5 Hart finalists as recently as 2017, while Tavares hasn’t been there since 2014.

Tavares is still a fantastic player but he has declined too.

You do know Matthews missed a good chunk of the season, and played hurt for a good 10 games as well, right? He still had a significantly higher point pace than either Karlsson or Burns, and just a hair behind Tavares.

I don’t know how ice time is going to be distributed this year for the Leafs... probably neither Tavares nor Matthews will get the full minutes they deserve. Both will probably average 15 minutes ES... but that’s also what they got last year, so not a huge change there. Both players will get an upgrade in linemates with Marleau joining Matthews, and Marner pairing up with Tavares.

It wouldn’t shock me if both wound up with 90+ point seasons... hell, I wouldn’t be surprised if Matthews made it to triple digits, not that I expect it.

It’s clear the forwards are the better offensive players here.

Defense is harder to qualify... but it’s pretty telling that both Tavares and Matthews were trusted more by their coaches with defensive starts than Karlsson and Burns.

 

[Sol]

Man, you think there are 10Cs better than Tavares?

A lot of people do as well.

 

[LeafsNation75]

I don’t know how ice time is going to be distributed this year for the Leafs... probably neither Tavares nor Matthews will get the full minutes they deserve. Both will probably average 15 minutes ES... but that’s also what they got last year, so not a huge change there. Both players will get an upgrade in linemates with Marleau joining Matthews, and Marner pairing up with Tavares.

If Pittsburgh can work giving Crosby and Malkin their minutes I think Babcock will have that figured out with Matthews and Tavares.

 

[Atomos2]

A lot of people do as well.

They should prepare for a rough awakening

 

[Rhaegar Targaryen]

A closer poll would have been Karlsson vs Matthews and Tavares

 

[IPS]

A lot of people do as well.

Who? HFBoards posters? Oh boy, the clout that carries is serious business!

Meanwhile, paid professionals have only 5 C's ahead of Tavares going into the season:

Top 100 NHL Players of 2018–19: The Full List - Sportsnet.ca

 

[LeafsNation75]

Who? HFBoards posters? Oh boy, the clout that carries is serious business!

Meanwhile, paid professionals have only 5 C's ahead of Tavares going into the season:

Top 100 NHL Players of 2018–19: The Full List - Sportsnet.ca

Just wait until TSN does their top 50 players list this year. Remember last season they had Matthews ranked #10 and the non Leafs fans went crazy that he was ranked so high. So I can't wait to see their updated list where they ranked Tavares.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Also it's funny and hypocritical that when someone posted a poll thread of the top 10 centres during last season, Tavares was voted the 4th best centre and no one seemed to have a problem with it at the time and I guess that is because he played for the Islanders and not the Maple Leafs.

https://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/who-is-the-4th-best-centre.2443075/

 

[IPS]

Also it's funny and hypocritical that when someone posted a poll thread of the top 10 centres during last season, Tavares was voted the 4th best centre and no one seemed to have a problem with it at the time and I guess that is because he played for the Islanders and not the Maple Leafs.

https://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/who-is-the-4th-best-centre.2443075/

No problems here.

Just HFBoards doing another complete 180 on a player who started donning the blue and white. Apparantly Tavares isn't even a top-10 C anymore.

 

[LeafsNation75]

No problems here.

Just HFBoards doing another complete 180 on a player who started donning the blue and white. Apparantly Tavares isn't even a top-10 C anymore.

That's to be expected once Tavares became a Toronto Maple Leaf.

 

[BTP]

Matthews and Tavares.

Leafs will have more points than SJ as well.

 

[Dingo]

Matthews is on the up and up. Tavares and Karlsson are both awesome and finally going to better teams, and I think Burns is the weakest of the four.
In the end, unless the point totals are obvious, I don’t think this will be easy to quantify.
I’d take Tavares and Matthews, though, even if I think Karlsson is the best of the four.

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

You take the franchise centers every time. Burns is probably the worst player out of these 4 due to the fact that he is the most sheltered with mediocre defensive results and although Karlsson is likely the best, we have no idea if last season is his new norm post injury.

Burns is the 2/3 highest scoring dman of his time

Matthews has not passed him yet. Matthews is very clearly the worst of the four as of today, very very clearly

 

[Maplebeasts]

Burns is the 2/3 highest scoring dman of his time

Matthews has not passed him yet. Matthews is very clearly the worst of the four as of today, very very clearly

No I can tell you he is not. Above ppg goalscoring center last year with really solid defensive results while having upside for more. That's not a slight on Burns, it's just hard to see him being better overall than a 21 year old Matthews this season.

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

No I can tell you he is not. Above ppg goalscoring center last year with really solid defensive results while having upside for more. That's not a slight on Burns, it's just hard to see him being better overall than a 21 year old Matthews this season.

Keep thinking that

Lets see Matthews pass 70 points first

 

[Maplebeasts]

Keep thinking that

Lets see Matthews pass 70 points first

Yeah this argument has no credence.

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

Yeah this argument has no credence.

neither does one based on projections

Burns has broken 70 twice as a defenseman. Matthews hasnt. those are facts, take your projections elsewhere because as of today Matthews is not better than Burns.

 

[Maplebeasts]

neither does one based on projections

Burns has broken 70 twice as a defenseman. Matthews hasnt. those are facts, take your projections elsewhere because as of today Matthews is not better than Burns.

Ok we'll see how this holds up this season. I'd wager not good at all.

 

[MoreMogilny]

Keep thinking that

Lets see Matthews pass 70 points first

The 70 point argument to bring Matthews down is one of the stupidest things I’ve seen on HF lately. 69 as a rookie, 63 as a sophomore in an injury riddled season while surpassing a point per game pace. Yet the greatest argument people seem to have against him is that he hasn’t hit 70 even though it’s completely arbitrary.

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

Ok we'll see how this holds up this season. I'd wager not good at all.

Considering the season doesnt start today I dont have to worry about it

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

The 70 point argument to bring Matthews down is one of the stupidest things I’ve seen on HF lately. 69 as a rookie, 63 as a sophomore in an injury riddled season while surpassing a point per game pace. Yet the greatest argument people seem to have against him is that he hasn’t hit 70 even though it’s completely arbitrary.

Yet as of today Burns has broken 70 twice as a dman while Matthews hasnt

is the word today not as common as I think?

 

[MoreMogilny]

Yet as of today Burns has broken 70 twice as a dman while Matthews hasnt

is the word today not as common as I think?

So what does it matter?

It’s the exact same thing, for example, if Matthews had scored 70 points last season, people saying “well he hasn’t even hit 71 points yet”

It’s completely stupid.

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

So what does it matter?

It’s the exact same thing, for example, if Matthews had scored 70 points last season, people saying “well he hasn’t even hit 71 points yet”

It’s completely stupid.

I dont think youre getting me

No idiot seriously thinks Matthews will always be worse. He likely will surpass Burns this season! But as of TODAY, the defenseman who has only scored less than Karlsson and Keith (?), two insta-lock HHOF, is certainly better than Matthews.

 

[LeafsNation75]

The 70 point argument to bring Matthews down is one of the stupidest things I’ve seen on HF lately. 69 as a rookie, 63 as a sophomore in an injury riddled season while surpassing a point per game pace. Yet the greatest argument people seem to have against him is that he hasn’t hit 70 even though it’s completely arbitrary.

I feel the same way and it's like those people want to ignore Matthews 40 goal rookie season, which was the most goals a rookie scored since Ovechkin's 52 goals when he was a rookie.

 

[OilCanada92]

Who? HFBoards posters? Oh boy, the clout that carries is serious business!

Meanwhile, paid professionals have only 5 C's ahead of Tavares going into the season:

Top 100 NHL Players of 2018–19: The Full List - Sportsnet.ca

Tavares ahead of Scheiflie, Stamkos, Barkov, Seguin and Bergeron?

I'd say Tavares is #11.