Burns and Karlsson VS Tavares and Matthews

[Taluss]

Who can ever forget when he did this against Karlsson.

Typical leaf logic here^

 

[LeafsNation75]

Typical leaf logic here^

I know a lot of people on here love Karlsson and think he can do nothing wrong. So I don't see a problem showing one time when Matthews made a great play and it happened to be Karlsson that looked bad in the end.

 

[Aintboutdatlyfe]

Karlsson is the best player here so I went with Sharks duo. Both are great.

He certainly wasn't the best of the bunch last season.

We'll see where he's at this year, he's carried bad Ottawa teams before but didn't last year so I'm not so sure it's a byproduct of Ottawa being bad.

 

[Agent Zub]

He certainly wasn't the best of the bunch last season.

We'll see where he's at this year, he's carried bad Ottawa teams before but didn't last year so I'm not so sure it's a byproduct of Ottawa being bad.

Maybe it's a byproduct of being on crutches all summer and playing with a cadavers bone in his ankle. While also playing on a terrible team with a crazy stalker harassing him and his wife.

 

[Aintboutdatlyfe]

Maybe it's a byproduct of being on crutches all summer and playing with a cadavers bone in his ankle. While also playing on a terrible team with a crazy stalker harassing him and his wife.

Well, he's been injury plagued for sometime now has been my primary point, he's done a lot better on terrible Sens team's before too. His wife being cyberbullied doesn't have much to do with his on ice performance.

It's not hard to imagine a world where he isn't the best player out of these 4 next season. Especially when one of those players, possibly the most talented of the group, is about to enter his third season, which is typically a big step forward year for plenty of young players.

It's not an open and shut case. It's not even close to that this year.

 

[pcruz]

No matter how big a Leafs fan resides in me, 30 minutes + 30 minutes of Karlsson and Burns will win on impact over anyone else.
It could have been a question of Kalsson and Burns vs Crosby and Malkin and the answer is the same. Those 2 together might play 45 minutes a night.
The SJ players could easily play all 60 minutes and overlap with each other.

 

[Critical13]

I would rather have Karlsson over Tavares. However, I take Matthews over Burns without much regret. That gap is bigger than the other, I would say.

Would you rather have Toronto's forward group or San Jose's defence?

 

[pcruz]

I would rather have Karlsson over Tavares. However, I take Matthews over Burns without much regret. That gap is bigger than the other, I would say.

Would you rather have Toronto's forward group or San Jose's defence?

Unquestionably Toronto. I may be biased, but I don't think anyone ought to pick 2 players on the declining part of their careers (albeit fantastic players right now) and some other good players, over 2 budding star players, an absolute superstar in the making, a top 10 player over the last 6-7 years who is in his late 20s, a 30 goal scoring defensively used centre and some other useful pieces.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

I would rather have Karlsson over Tavares. However, I take Matthews over Burns without much regret. That gap is bigger than the other, I would say.

Would you rather have Toronto's forward group or San Jose's defence?

How is the gap so much bigger between Burns and Matthews when Matthews has never scored more points than Burns in the NHL?

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Unquestionably Toronto. I may be biased, but I don't think anyone ought to pick 2 players on the declining part of their careers (albeit fantastic players right now) and some other good players, over 2 budding star players, an absolute superstar in the making, a top 10 player over the last 6-7 years who is in his late 20s, a 30 goal scoring defensively used centre and some other useful pieces.

Karlsson and Tavares are the same age. If one of them is declining, so is the other. Karlsson’s seasons of true world class play are a lot more recent than those of Tavares, though; so are Burns’ world class seasons for that matter.

 

[Critical13]

How is the gap so much bigger between Burns and Matthews when Matthews has never scored more points than Burns in the NHL?

We could go into the rate and usage statistics but I don’t see you changing your mind so I’ll just say “that’s my opinion” and save a few pages of time wasting.

 

[pcruz]

Karlsson and Tavares are the same age. If one of them is declining, so is the other. Karlsson’s seasons of true world class play are a lot more recent than those of Tavares, though; so are Burns’ world class seasons for that matter.

While that may all be true, you seem to ignore that possibly the best player out of the entire picture there is entering his 3rd season after scoring over 70 goals in the NHL.
Also ignoring Karlsson's Achilles tendon.

If you were to give me the option to draft these guys at the top of their game from day 1 until retirement - Tavares & Matthews (who we have yet to see the top end yet) vs Burns and Karlsson....I take the defensemen.

That's not reality though. So for this specific season I still take those blueliners, it's likely that as early as next season and forevermore I take Matthews and Tavares.

 

[Critical13]

While that may all be true, you seem to ignore that possibly the best player out of the entire picture there is entering his 3rd season after scoring over 70 goals in the NHL.
Also ignoring Karlsson's Achilles tendon.

If you were to give me the option to draft these guys at the top of their game from day 1 until retirement - Tavares & Matthews (who we have yet to see the top end yet) vs Burns and Karlsson....I take the defensemen.

That's not reality though. So for this specific season I still take those blueliners, it's likely that as early as next season and forevermore I take Matthews and Tavares.

That seems fair, well said!

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

We could go into the rate and usage statistics but I don’t see you changing your mind so I’ll just say “that’s my opinion” and save a few pages of time wasting.

And those are all fine and dandy, and could potentially be predictors of future performance, but Burns was just a finalist for the Ted Lindsay Award. And he just outscored Matthews for the second season in a row, despite being a defenseman.

While that may all be true, you seem to ignore that possibly the best player out of the entire picture there is entering his 3rd season after scoring over 70 goals in the NHL.
Also ignoring Karlsson's Achilles tendon.

If you were to give me the option to draft these guys at the top of their game from day 1 until retirement - Tavares & Matthews (who we have yet to see the top end yet) vs Burns and Karlsson....I take the defensemen.

That's not reality though. So for this specific season I still take those blueliners, it's likely that as early as next season and forevermore I take Matthews and Tavares.

Yeah, obviously long term you take the centers due to age. But suggesting that Karlsson and Burns headed for a retirement home and Tavares is a spring chicken is just inaccurate when Burns and Karlsson were top-5 Hart finalists as recently as 2017, while Tavares hasn’t been there since 2014.

Tavares is still a fantastic player but he has declined too.

 

[Critical13]

@JoeThorntonsRooster I respect that, all good. Tell me, if you had to win a cup this year, would you take Burns over Matthews?

In fact, how would you rank these fine players?

 

[pcruz]

And those are all fine and dandy, and could potentially be predictors of future performance, but Burns was just a finalist for the Ted Lindsay Award. And he just outscored Matthews for the second season in a row, despite being a defenseman.



Yeah, obviously long term you take the centers due to age. But suggesting that Karlsson and Burns headed for a retirement home and Tavares is a spring chicken is just inaccurate when Burns and Karlsson were top-5 Hart finalists as recently as 2017, while Tavares hasn’t been there since 2014.

Tavares is still a fantastic player but he has declined too.

I did no such thing.

It's no secret that Burns is older. Come on though, he's had 4 great seasons in his career - these last 4 - culminating in a deserved Norris.
Karlsson is the only player from the Senators that I could objectively watch and admire. Screw Alfredsson and his stupid stick swing and shooting the puck at unsuspecting players after the whistle.
Karlsson is incredible - offensively....he has some rather obvious defensive flaws that are readily overlooked by just about everyone.

But Tavares just had his second best statistical season on a rather terrible Islanders team that doesn't really have a home stadium and is constantly embroiled in distractions. He may not be EK, but he's still a damn good player and should continue to be one well into Burns' retirement.

 

[OilCanada92]

I know a lot of people on here love Karlsson and think he can do nothing wrong. So I don't see a problem showing one time when Matthews made a great play and it happened to be Karlsson that looked bad in the end.

If I made a Lidstrom vs Nugent-Hopkins poll, who would you vote for? And would your opinion change in even the slightest way if I posted the video of RNH as a rookie undressing Lidstrom?

 

[6 Karlsson 5]

Matthews has eaten up Karlsson when paired against him.

Matthews didn't fair well against Chara. But Karlsson? By all means, match AM against Karlsson all day er day.

Do you have any data to back up your claim that Matthews "has eaten up Karlsson"?

 

[LeafsNation75]

If I made a Lidstrom vs Nugent-Hopkins poll, who would you vote for? And would your opinion change in even the slightest way if I posted the video of RNH as a rookie undressing Lidstrom?

Look all I did was reply to @Drytoast when he said "Matthews has eaten up Karlsson" and used the example of his 2nd goal from his NHL debut. If you have a problem with that I'm sorry but I don't know what else to say at being offended where I showed one example where Matthews was better than Karlsson. It does not take away anything he's done like winning the Norris Trophy 2x or mean he's a bad player.

 

[Drytoast]

Anyone wanna sig bet who gets more points this year? Burns and Karlsson vs Tavares and Auston Matthews.

I'm willing to either avatar bet or sig bet.

lez go!

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

@JoeThorntonsRooster I respect that, all good. Tell me, if you had to win a cup this year, would you take Burns over Matthews?

In fact, how would you rank these fine players?

Burns, because he has had a Conn Smythe level playoff run in his career.

Karlsson
Burns
Matthews
Tavares

That is where they rank in terms of their position relative to their peers. Karlsson/Burns clearly in that top-5 range, Matthews/Tavares on the border of that top-10 range.

I did no such thing.

It's no secret that Burns is older. Come on though, he's had 4 great seasons in his career - these last 4 - culminating in a deserved Norris.
Karlsson is the only player from the Senators that I could objectively watch and admire. Screw Alfredsson and his stupid stick swing and shooting the puck at unsuspecting players after the whistle.
Karlsson is incredible - offensively....he has some rather obvious defensive flaws that are readily overlooked by just about everyone.

But Tavares just had his second best statistical season on a rather terrible Islanders team that doesn't really have a home stadium and is constantly embroiled in distractions. He may not be EK, but he's still a damn good player and should continue to be one well into Burns' retirement.

That wasn’t his 2nd best statistical season. His defensive metrics, plus minus, and points per game were both nowhere near his 2nd best season and there’s a reason he has been a Hart Trophy Finalist twice but he wasn’t that year.

 

[Critical13]

Burns, because he has had a Conn Smythe level playoff run in his career.

Karlsson
Burns
Matthews
Tavares

That is where they rank in terms of their position relative to their peers. Karlsson/Burns clearly in that top-5 range, Matthews/Tavares on the border of that top-10 range.



That wasn’t his 2nd best statistical season. His defensive metrics, plus minus, and points per game were both nowhere near his 2nd best season and there’s a reason he has been a Hart Trophy Finalist twice but he wasn’t that year.

Alright good to know. Will be interesting to see how that list plays out. Mine would be quite different but only time will tell.

 

[triggrman]

And those are all fine and dandy, and could potentially be predictors of future performance, but Burns was just a finalist for the Ted Lindsay Award. And he just outscored Matthews for the second season in a row, despite being a defenseman.



Yeah, obviously long term you take the centers due to age. But suggesting that Karlsson and Burns headed for a retirement home and Tavares is a spring chicken is just inaccurate when Burns and Karlsson were top-5 Hart finalists as recently as 2017, while Tavares hasn’t been there since 2014.

Tavares is still a fantastic player but he has declined too.

He was in 2016-2017, not in 2017-2018. I like Burns, he was a riot in Nashville for the ASG but last year he didn't look as good last season, to me.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

How do you define better? When one side is both dmen/ other is both centermen.

Points?
1 of karlsson/Burns will likely lead NHL dmen in points, and im assuming the other will be in the top 5 also.
Matthews/Tavares, I honestly cant see either ending up in the top 5 among forwards.

Standings?
Id say Toronto will likely end up with more points than San jose, due to Toronto having a pretty stacked forward group.
San jose has more playoff expierence, and likely an easier route in the playoffs due to a bad division so I could see them going further than Toronto.

Personally id prob go with Karlsson/Burns... your basically talking about 2 of arguably the top 5 dmen in the league vs 2 of the top 10/15 centers in the league.

 

[glucker]

Tavares top 10..Matthews top 5?what are you going to assassinate the better players to make this opinion true?

Man, you think there are 10Cs better than Tavares?