Burke created this team, and Nonis is destroying or fixing it (part 2)?

[The CyNick]

Yeah that'll happen.



Yes, blaming the fans is dumb.


How is blaming the fans dumb?
What is the most important thing to TL and MLSE?
That you are happy with the Leafs?
No, its money.
How do you make TL sad. Fan attendance drops. Remember Chicago? Terrible management. Lowest attendance in the NHL. It made them get their act together.
Obviously it is not the end all but it can affect upper management decisions.

Nobody in MLSE wants to lose

You do realize they get additional revenues for success in the playoffs right?

 

[GordieHoweHatTrick]

Life is all about timing and both Burke and Nonis had/have terrible timing in Toronto. It wasn't Burke's fault the original team was so ****, just like it isn't Nonis' fault we've regressed back to ****.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Nobody in MLSE wants to lose

You do realize they get additional revenues for success in the playoffs right?

Unfortunately your post quotes me as saying that when I never did. I believe MLSE wants to win but ...

 

[The CyNick]

Nonis is proving he is Burke's right hand man. He may be more patient but makes the same bad mistakes!!
LOL Now Holland gets demoted and Ashton moves up? Ashton deserves to move up defintely but Holland deserves to be our #2 C. I understand its because of the draft pick but Nonis' contracts doesnt allow for both these 2 kids to play and doesnt allow for any other roster changes!!! LEAFS SUCK is a chant I can't argue with anymore!!!

Which of our top two centres has Holland out played? The guy who got two points last night? Or the guy who is basically point a game?

 

[The CyNick]

Trading 3 draft picks for a 3rd line centre with one year left on his contract is tied for #1 with the Clarkson deal IMO.

Yeah it's stupid to acquire a solid number three centre. Think of all the studs we defintely would have drafted. The odds were on our side to land an even better player. We're so dumb.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Yeah it's stupid to acquire a solid number three centre. Think of all the studs we defintely would have drafted. The odds were on our side to land an even better player. We're so dumb.

Depends. If you want to win a few more games now then we otherwise would then yeah, it's a great move. If however you want to be a contender at some point, and realize that by the time this has a chance of happening Bolland will be in the twilight of his career at best then it's shortsighted and yes dumb.

That's without even getting mentioning the fact that it's no guarantee that he will be resigned and if he does resign, we will be paying top dollar for him.

 

[varano]

I dont have a problem with any of the moves Nonis has made.

Clarkson is a bit of a doozy but shame on Carlyle for not throwing him in the press box for a while to get him thinking.

I think the way that Kadri and Reimer get handled is what defines Dave Nonis' tenure in Toronto

 

[ironhorse384]

Life is all about timing and both Burke and Nonis had/have terrible timing in Toronto. It wasn't Burke's fault the original team was so ****, just like it isn't Nonis' fault we've regressed back to ****.

I disagree with this. I think the timing was perfect for them to start a complete rebuild. If I recall correctly the leafs were about 20 mill under the cap when he took over and they had the 2nd overall pick. That team was ripe to finish in the bottom and hence get top five picks for a few years. He did like every other doorknob before him and went on drunken sailor spending spree wasting cap room on bad players when he could've had 3 year entry level salaries. Instead of taking advantage his legacy will be of a moderately better team five years later. Ya, what a lousy position for him to be in.

 

[ULF_55]

Burke said less than 5 years to rebuild the team.

So, this is year 6.

I think the problem is my interpretation of a complete rebuild.

For Burke is a playoffs contender, for me it is a Cup contender.

I thought Burke was full of hot-air, and today there is nothing that makes me feel I was wrong.

Thank goodness he's gone and hopefully all his cronies are on the hit list.

 

[JackJ]

Burke said less than 5 years to rebuild the team.

So, this is year 6.

I think the problem is my interpretation of a complete rebuild.

For Burke is a playoffs contender, for me it is a Cup contender.

I thought Burke was full of hot-air, and today there is nothing that makes me feel I was wrong.

Thank goodness he's gone and hopefully all his cronies are on the hit list.

Make it 7 if you include Fletchs year of cleaning house.

 

[ironhorse384]

Burke said less than 5 years to rebuild the team.

So, this is year 6.

I think the problem is my interpretation of a complete rebuild.

For Burke is a playoffs contender, for me it is a Cup contender.

I thought Burke was full of hot-air, and today there is nothing that makes me feel I was wrong.

Thank goodness he's gone and hopefully all his cronies are on the hit list.

The unfortunate part of that is this team could be getting no better for the next ten years because of his ego. Honestly, I was hopeful when they brought him on board because I thought he would be the one guy who would resist the temptation for the quick fix.

 

[ULF_55]

The unfortunate part of that is this team could be getting no better for the next ten years because of his ego. Honestly, I was hopeful when they brought him on board because I thought he would be the one guy who would resist the temptation for the quick fix.

In hindsight knowing that MLSE told JFj they would not allow a rebuild, perhaps the interview was like this?

MLSE: We want to make the playoffs this year!
Burke: No problem, I'll sign a couple defenders and we'll be fine.
MLSE: JFj said we need to tear it down and rebuild.
Burke: I'm smarter and older, it doesn't have to take 5 years.
MLSE: So playoffs?
Burke: Did you see my Cup win in Anaheim?

Burke to media: I have full control of the team and complete authority to make any changes I want.

 

[ironhorse384]

In hindsight knowing that MLSE told JFj they would not allow a rebuild, perhaps the interview was like this?

MLSE: We want to make the playoffs this year!
Burke: No problem, I'll sign a couple defenders and we'll be fine.
MLSE: JFj said we need to tear it down and rebuild.
Burke: I'm smarter and older, it doesn't have to take 5 years.
MLSE: So playoffs?
Burke: Did you see my Cup win in Anaheim?

Burke to media: I have full control of the team and complete authority to make any changes I want.

Unfortunately for JFJ he'll be remembered for Rask for Raycroft and ultimately Toskala for Logan Couture. I'm not saying they would've drafted him but they could've drafted him.

 

[Kbs]

Unfortunately for JFJ he'll be remembered for Rask for Raycroft and ultimately Toskala for Logan Couture. I'm not saying they would've drafted him but they could've drafted him.

It was Eller, not Couture. San Jose traded up to get Couture.

 

[ironhorse384]

It was Eller, not Couture. San Jose traded up to get Couture.

My mistake but nevertheless we can agree that Toskala wasn't worth a 1st round pick.

 

[Wheels]

MacA with a goal tonight for the fourth straight game.

 

[JackJ]

Unfortunately for JFJ he'll be remembered for Rask for Raycroft and ultimately Toskala for Logan Couture. I'm not saying they would've drafted him but they could've drafted him.

Only if they traded up like the Sharks did. Our pick was #13.

 

[Penalty Kill Icing*]

MacA with a goal tonight for the fourth straight game.

Send have won 4 straight. Coincidence? I bet not.

 

[DoubleDouble*]

I don't get it. Burke builds a tough, exciting hockey team last year, we make the playoffs for the first time in ages, and then he gets fired....Nonis comes in, makes some universally admonished moves (Buyout of Grabo, Buyout of Komi, Big Clarkson deal) and he gets 5 years. This is the worst team I've seen in 4 years. I liked what Burke was doing. Very dissapointed.

 

[Wheels]

I don't get it. Burke builds a tough, exciting hockey team last year, we make the playoffs for the first time in ages, and then he gets fired....Nonis comes in, makes some universally admonished moves (Buyout of Grabo, Buyout of Komi, Big Clarkson deal) and he gets 5 years. This is the worst team I've seen in 4 years. I liked what Burke was doing. Very dissapointed.

Your timeline is slightly off - Burke was fired before last season started (actually a year ago tomorrow)...but yeah, Nonis did inherit the team Burke built. Agreed on that.

As for Nonis' moves, they weren't universally admonished. They were admonished by, for lack of a better term, the "fancy stat" community (of which I include myself). They were welcomed by many people, particlularly the Clarkson signing, Grabo buyout and the Bolland trade.

 

[Dragao6]

Which of our top two centres has Holland out played? The guy who got two points last night? Or the guy who is basically point a game?

The one that keeps giving the puck away when trying to be the next sidney crosby!!! The one that only scores consistently when hes playing vs other teams 3rd lines. The one that got a chance on the top line and showed how elite he is by doing sh** all lol

Holland on the second line was playing great, line was producing. Now hes playing 4th line 4 minutes a game...Kadri hasnt consistantly looked good anywhere yet! I liek Carlyle but hes dissapointed me this year!!!

through all your points at this response, I unfortunately watch almost every Leafs game and I comment on what I see!!

 

[Daisy Jane]

I find it kind of interesting that the team that everyone says is garbage/sucks/medicore and that is flawed in some way and should be stripped....

is Nonis' team.

but he only added 4 players... annnnd only one is really struggling right now (Clarkson - but isn't has horrendous as everyone makes it out to be), one is injured, one is here for 1 million dollars, and the other is either the #1 starter or the big bad meanie taking away from the...other #1 starter).

gotcha

 

[Glenn Isildur Healy]

I find it kind of interesting that the team that everyone says is garbage/sucks/medicore and that is flawed in some way and should be stripped....

is Nonis' team.

but he only added 4 players... annnnd only one is really struggling right now (Clarkson - but isn't has horrendous as everyone makes it out to be), one is injured, one is here for 1 million dollars, and the other is either the #1 starter or the big bad meanie taking away from the...other #1 starter).

gotcha

For me, this is about having to endure years and years of Leafs management who only like to take short cuts

I am sick and tired of Leafs management providing the same story over and over again

I would like to see a GM for once have the guts to tear the whole team down and go back to the base ingredient that leads to success. Drafting and strong asset management. Dont sign someone to a crazy contract when the team isnt even close to winning anything

 

[darrylsittler27]

The rebuild will be enforced now.

And the new GM has some nice trade pieces. But lets trade these guys to teams they hate ,just to send a message.

"Is a Leaf game on? Yawn,click!"

 

[K19*]

I haven't watched a game in weeks. Not watching any hockey, really. Didn't miss a game last year, but Nonis' offseason has turned me off this year. Clarkson has been a total dud, and Grabo was a good player. Liles not bought out? Bozak re-signed? Not bringing Komarov back? And Leiweke re-ups Nonis for 5 years? Ugh. I hope they turn it around and make the playoffs, but I also wouldn't be the least bit upset if the team implodes so changes are made to management and the roster. I'm actually kind of hoping they do implode so Nonis' head will roll, but that's not happening with his shiny new contract. I know Rogers/Bell are the problem, but Nonis has been awful.