Burke created this team, and Nonis is destroying or fixing it (part 2)?

[Gary Nylund]

The first edition of this topic reached a 1000 posts and a mod said that:

"This thread is over 1,000 posts. If someone wants to make a part 2, go for it."

It's a more interesting topic than most in my humble opinion.

Last years was composed of guys Burke brought in. The team while not amazing obviously, seemed to be on the right track. It had an identity and played hard almost every night.

In the off-season Nonis made his moves and "put his stamp on the team". Now we suck any way you look at it.

I guess at this point it's not so important to figure assess how good a job Burke did or didn't do. What's more important moving forward is to assess how good a job Nonis is or isn't doing.

My vote is that Nonis sucks. I voted that way the minute he cut Grabovsky loose and signed Clarkson and everything since then has only served to solidify my opinion. We're much worse then we were last year and have given up a bunch of draft picks to get there. The future looks bleak and I doubt things will get better while Nonis is in charge.

Anyone disagree? How about all those who were saying stuff a month or two ago like "we're still 2nd in the East" ... "we're still 4th in the East" ... "we can hang with anyone in the East and have to only beat one West team in the final" ... "we're just 1 or 2 pieces away".

Is there still hope? Are we ready to roll as soon as Bolland gets back? Is Bernier just trolling us with his highlight reel goals?

Or are we really and truly screwed and looking at another 5-10 years of irrelevance?

Click to read more...

 

[Derek Synak]

at least our players dress nice and have pretty hair.

 

[thewave]

The first edition of this topic reached a 1000 posts and a mod said that:

"This thread is over 1,000 posts. If someone wants to make a part 2, go for it."

It's a more interesting topic than most in my humble opinion.

Last years was composed of guys Burke brought in. The team while not amazing obviously, seemed to be on the right track. It had an identity and played hard almost every night.

In the off-season Nonis made his moves and "put his stamp on the team". Now we suck any way you look at it.

I guess at this point it's not so important to figure assess how good a job Burke did or didn't do. What's more important moving forward is to assess how good a job Nonis is or isn't doing.

My vote is that Nonis sucks. I voted that way the minute he cut Grabovsky loose and signed Clarkson and everything since then has only served to solidify my opinion. We're much worse then we were last year and have given up a bunch of draft picks to get there. The future looks bleak and I doubt things will get better while Nonis is in charge.

Anyone disagree? How about all those who were saying stuff a month or two ago like "we're still 2nd in the East" ... "we're still 4th in the East" ... "we can hang with anyone in the East and have to only beat one West team in the final" ... "we're just 1 or 2 pieces away".

Is there still hope? Are we ready to roll as soon as Bolland gets back? Is Bernier just trolling us with his highlight reel goals?

Or are we really and truly screwed and looking at another 5-10 years of irrelevance?

Nonis is cautious and patient...

14m buyout after 50 not so great games by a player who was put in a defensive role.

Sign 5.25x7 NTC NMC Clarkson for his good showing over 100 game stretch.

Let CMAC walk

Not try hard enough to secure Komarov, he failed again

Can't identify a good coach from a bad. I hope this to be the final mistake he gets to make.

 

[number72]

Burke brought in Carlyle to coach this team.
That is the root problem

 

[Peasy]

Burke created the core of this team, no idea how you can really blame Nonis.

 

[Mindrust]

Theoretically, if we end up winning the Cup this season, guys like you will come around and say this is Burke's team and he should get credit. But until then, it's Nonis' disaster.

In my opinion, I don't know how much of the blame goes to Nonis. The team has played like absolute trash for 90% of the season thus far. Even the pieces from last season have been disappointing. (which is the majority of the team)

 

[bobbyflex]

and we have no cap space or wiggle room to do anything significant. Management screwed up in that regard as well.

 

[BraveCanadian]

Nonis didn't destroy anything.. he continued down the same path: locking up mediocre core players long term and adding another albatross in Clarkson. Now we are a bubble team at the cap.

Looking forward to 2020 when we can start rebuilding.

 

[Mess]

Maybe next year after Nonis is paying Burke's players elite player money the results will be better.

$8 mil Kessel > $5.4 mil Kessel
&
$7.0 mil Phaneuf > $6.5 mil Phaneuf

Higher salary = better, more productive player or you're going to have an even bigger problem.

 

[Trapper]

The fans need to assume some responsibility as well.
Do you think the Montreal Canadiens fan base would allow their original 6 team to suffer through what Leaf fans suffer through?
They would burn down the Bell center.
Every year we blame management.
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing but expecting a different result.
Yet the fan base does it every year:

1.Training camp starts everyone is excited.
2.Team gets off to a good start, everyone is excited.
3.Team struggles, some call out the players, some call out the coach, some call out the GM. People show up and say relax, we are still in a playoff spot, we are ok, you are all overreacting.
4.Team wins a few everyone is excited.
5.Team goes downhill again and see no. 3.
6. Team misses playoffs
7. Management issues apology.
8. Back to 1.

Somehow fans need to find a way to voice the displeasure that a flag ship team of the NHL mires in mediocrity for so long. It must be fixed.

 

[bobbyflex]

The fans need to assume some responsibility as well.
Do you think the Montreal Canadiens fan base would allow their original 6 team to suffer through what Leaf fans suffer through?
They would burn down the Bell center.
Every year we blame management.
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing but expecting a different result.
Yet the fan base does it every year:

1.Training camp starts everyone is excited.
2.Team gets off to a good start, everyone is excited.
3.Team struggles, some call out the players, some call out the coach, some call out the GM. People show up and say relax, we are still in a playoff spot, we are ok, you are all overreacting.
4.Team wins a few everyone is excited.
5.Team goes downhill again and see no. 3.
6. Team misses playoffs
7. Management issues apology.
8. Back to 1.

Somehow fans need to find a way to voice the displeasure that a flag ship team of the NHL mires in mediocrity for so long. It must be fixed.

we didn't do the same thing. We made the playoffs last season for the first time in 10 years and for some odd reason we partially blow up the team (Grabo, Mac, Komorov, Frattin, Scrivens)

 

[Radiohead]

The fans need to assume some responsibility as well.
Do you think the Montreal Canadiens fan base would allow their original 6 team to suffer through what Leaf fans suffer through?
They would burn down the Bell center.
Every year we blame management.
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing but expecting a different result.
Yet the fan base does it every year:

1.Training camp starts everyone is excited.
2.Team gets off to a good start, everyone is excited.
3.Team struggles, some call out the players, some call out the coach, some call out the GM. People show up and say relax, we are still in a playoff spot, we are ok, you are all overreacting.
4.Team wins a few everyone is excited.
5.Team goes downhill again and see no. 3.
6. Team misses playoffs
7. Management issues apology.
8. Back to 1.

Somehow fans need to find a way to voice the displeasure that a flag ship team of the NHL mires in mediocrity for so long. It must be fixed.

Why do fans need to tell management to do their job correctly?

 

[Peasy]

we didn't do the same thing. We made the playoffs last season for the first time in 10 years and for some odd reason we partially blow up the team (Grabo, Mac, Komorov, Frattin, Scrivens)

The core players are still the same. You make the playoffs based off of core players not a supporting cast. This is why Chicago is still successful after dumping players right after they won the cup.

 

[thewave]

Why do fans need to tell management to do their job correctly?

The only way fans assume responsibility is by enabling this team to spend the money they do on crap.

We flip the bill collectively.

 

[bobbyflex]

The core players are still the same. You make the playoffs based off of core players not a supporting cast. This is why Chicago is still successful after dumping players right after they won the cup.

all good teams have one thing in common: depth. Last year we had crazy depth. Our third line of Grabo+Kulemin+Mac/Komorov/Frattin created lots of opportunities and offensive zone time.

This year we have no depth. Our third line is not an offensive threat. McClement gets 20+ minutes a night and couldn't score if his life depended on it

 

[Penalty Kill Icing*]

Maybe next year after Nonis is paying Burke's players elite player money the results will be better.

$8 mil Kessel > $5.4 mil Kessel
&
$7.0 mil Phaneuf > $6.5 mil Phaneuf

Higher salary = better, more productive player or you're going to have an even bigger problem.

So, you are telling me that Clarkson is better than JvR, Bozak, Bolland, Kadri and Kulemin?

 

[ACC1224]

The fans need to assume some responsibility as well.
Do you think the Montreal Canadiens fan base would allow their original 6 team to suffer through what Leaf fans suffer through?
They would burn down the Bell center.
Every year we blame management.
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing but expecting a different result.
Yet the fan base does it every year:

1.Training camp starts everyone is excited.
2.Team gets off to a good start, everyone is excited.
3.Team struggles, some call out the players, some call out the coach, some call out the GM. People show up and say relax, we are still in a playoff spot, we are ok, you are all overreacting.
4.Team wins a few everyone is excited.
5.Team goes downhill again and see no. 3.
6. Team misses playoffs
7. Management issues apology.
8. Back to 1.

Somehow fans need to find a way to voice the displeasure that a flag ship team of the NHL mires in mediocrity for so long. It must be fixed.

This is good for a chuckle every time it's brought up.

 

[leafs in five]

Burke created the core of this team, no idea how you can really blame Nonis.

He made the team worse.

 

[ACC1224]

Burke being removed is proving to be the worse thing that could have happened.

 

[daveleaf]

Funny how Det is fairing no better and some of the experts had them fighting for top of the conference. No one is hearing Ken Holland making brash statements and sending players out of town.

Ott sucks for a good chunk and Murray said nothing and his team turned it around without making moves. You don't hear anyone complaining.

Tor fans like to complain for the sake of complaining. This team should be fighting for anywhere from 5-9 in the conference. That is who we are.

I'm tired of fans going on about Gabrovski. The guy sucked his last year here regardless of role. So he gets banged around like a doll in Bos and that makes him a great player? This team lacked more grit last year and that is why Clarkson is here. His game will come around.

I think you guys need to step away from the edge and act like a man.

 

[Peasy]

He made the team worse.

By signing Clarkson? Thats the only dumb move. The players the other guy listed did not play well at all last season, so its not like we lost amazing stats they put up or something to help us get into the playoffs.

 

[thom]

Who created Anaheim when they won cup it was murrey not Burke.Burke is a good GM but dont make him Holland.While in Vancouver he was a bully who threatened tax payers if he did not get what he wants.He threatens to sue or punch you out every time your against what he believes in.And guess what he can

 

[bobbyflex]

By signing Clarkson? Thats the only dumb move. The players the other guy listed did not play well at all last season, so its not like we lost amazing stats they put up or something to help us get into the playoffs.

lot of dumb moves.

1) Dumping Colborne for a 4th
2) Singing Clarkson to an albatross contract
3) Buying out Grabo and Komisarek instead of buying out Liles and Komisarek
4) Wasting 2nd round picks
5) Poor cap management

 

[Mess]

So, you are telling me that Clarkson is better than JvR, Bozak, Bolland, Kadri and Kulemin?

MLSE thinks so, that is why they were willing to recruit and pay him more to come and play for their organization and believe that it will bring them success.

Otherwise why would they be willing to pay him?

The more money a player makes the more cap hit he consumes and therefore the more productive he must be in order to validate the investment and help the team succeed.

Similarly when the organization hands out big raises to its current players they expect greater contribution as they now make more and consume more cap space.

 

[daveleaf]

Who created Anaheim when they won cup it was murrey not Burke.Burke is a good GM but dont make him Holland.While in Vancouver he was a bully who threatened tax payers if he did not get what he wants.He threatens to sue or punch you out every time your against what he believes in.And guess what he can

I would agree.