Post-Game Talk: Burgh 2, State of Florida 0

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Big McLargehuge

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May 9, 2002
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That ties him with Kunitz, Bonino, and Hagelin...while playing practically half as many minutes almost exclusively from the fourth line. To me that says a hell of a lot more about the seasons Kunitz, Bonino, and Hagelin are having than it says anything about Fehr.

Don't get me wrong, I'll take Kühn over him any day, but that's a horrible way to look at things...Fehr scores more frequently at 5-on-5 than either Cullen (1 moire goal in 101 more ES minutes) or Kühn (half as many goals in 2/3 the ES ice time), and goal scoring isn't high on any of their job descriptions.
 

spcastlemagic

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Jul 3, 2006
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lol, you guys act the same no matter what. It doesn't matter if we are the best or worst team in the league, there's always ONE GUY who is ruining the entire team. If Kunitz is gone all you nerds would do is whine about Fehr. How about enjoying the fact the team is super dominant and we have a coach who does nothing but push the right buttons and know how to get the best out of his imperfect roster?
 

Mr. T

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Feb 15, 2003
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lol, you guys act the same no matter what. It doesn't matter if we are the best or worst team in the league, there's always ONE GUY who is ruining the entire team. If Kunitz is gone all you nerds would do is whine about Fehr. How about enjoying the fact the team is super dominant and we have a coach who does nothing but push the right buttons and know how to get the best out of his imperfect roster?

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EliteGoaltending

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Jan 7, 2016
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That ties him with Kunitz, Bonino, and Hagelin...while playing practically half as many minutes almost exclusively from the fourth line. To me that says a hell of a lot more about the seasons Kunitz, Bonino, and Hagelin are having than it says anything about Fehr.

Don't get me wrong, I'll take Kühn over him any day, but that's a horrible way to look at things...Fehr scores more frequently at 5-on-5 than either Cullen (1 moire goal in 101 more ES minutes) or Kühn (half as many goals in 2/3 the ES ice time), and goal scoring isn't high on any of their job descriptions.

Kunitz's number is not surprising. Hagelin's kinda too,he is a 3rd wheel who rarely scores, but he's helping his linemates with and without the puck. He struggled a bit this year, but in general, he is what he is, a good 3rd wheel.
What about Hornqvist? Only 3 ES goals and he scored two of them in the recent games. So he played 20+ games on the top line and scored 1 goal at ES.
I'm not that worried about centres ES goals, because they're playmakers foremost.

I think Guentzel would have been right there with Phil, Geno and Sheary in ES goals, maybe even close to Sid.
 

Shady Machine

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Aug 6, 2010
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lol, you guys act the same no matter what. It doesn't matter if we are the best or worst team in the league, there's always ONE GUY who is ruining the entire team. If Kunitz is gone all you nerds would do is whine about Fehr. How about enjoying the fact the team is super dominant and we have a coach who does nothing but push the right buttons and know how to get the best out of his imperfect roster?

We are a miserable bunch :laugh:

That said, winning teams should be constantly evolving and looking for ways to improve. We probably focus too much here on roster improvements (as opposed to systems) but it's still important to discuss player usage. I'd like to believe if Guentzel wasn't tearing up the A, you would see a lot less complaining about Kunitz.
 

JimmyTwoTimes

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Apr 13, 2010
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The team doing this well without a guy like Guentzel in the lineup yet is a good problem to have. But when the playoffs get here and things tighten up, we could use that extra goal scorer. I still say he's in the lineup come playoff time. Where he will become a household name. That will basically be our trade deadline acquisition
 

Pens1566

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Aug 2, 2005
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Oh, I agree Cole. But I think that's what's making the culture clash so pronounced- we live in a world of metrics, analytics, and merit. Lots of coaches, assistant coaches, media guys, and front office types still want the fantasy of the Code and old tyme hocket to be a real thing and will hold that up.

Changing culture happens really slowly from the inside, and it'll probably be another 20 years before you see the last vestiges of "play through the pain", "pay your dues", and "veteran intangibles" die away.

Whoa, two more of those and we have to deal with "you know who".
 

Shady Machine

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The team doing this well without a guy like Guentzel in the lineup yet is a good problem to have. But when the playoffs get here and things tighten up, we could use that extra goal scorer. I still say he's in the lineup come playoff time. Where he will become a household name. That will basically be our trade deadline acquisition

I think I agree but unless there are injuries, I'm not sure who they'd sit for him. Kunitz is the obvious one, but do you really see Kunitz as a healthy scratch in the playoffs?
 

Sidney the Kidney

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Jun 29, 2009
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The Pens won 6-2 last night. Literally 42 of the first 94 posts in the postgame thread are about Chris Kunitz.

I think mentioning Kunitz after yesterday's game has merit, though. He took two stupid, stupid penalties that could have resulted in a loss rather than a win. He also looked incredibly lazy out there, just out for an afternoon skate on most shifts.

It would be one thing to point out the "obsession with Kunitz" if he played fine, and people still decided to ***** about him. But he didn't. He was one of the major minuses for the Pens yesterday, so it makes sense that a lot of people touched on that.
 

JimmyTwoTimes

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I think I agree but unless there are injuries, I'm not sure who they'd sit for him. Kunitz is the obvious one, but do you really see Kunitz as a healthy scratch in the playoffs?

When push came to shove, sully made the right moves last playoffs. I see the same thing happening again this time around. Personnel decisions in the regular season are much different than in the playoffs. Maybe its Fehr who sits(with kunitz pushed down to the 4th) but I can't see any way Guentzel isn't in the lineup when it really matters. Especially if we go a few games having a hard time scoring.
 

ncm7772

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Apr 10, 2016
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All true. There are worse blind spots than Kunitz. Watching last night's game and see Wilson-Cullen-Fehr all contribute on the 4th line made me realize how blessed we really are vs the Shero/Bylsma years. What a difference a 4th line can make when they aren't filled with anchors.

So true. Ugh, the years of glASS/Adams/Vitale or Adams/Park/Asham are not missed (though Park and Asham were respectable) certainly aren't missed. Cullen continues to play like he's 30 instead of 40, Wilson is starting to come around, and yes Fehr had struggled at times this year, he's still a serviceable 4th line player. And I really think Kuhnackel should be subbed in for Fehr.
 

td_ice

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Aug 13, 2005
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I think mentioning Kunitz after yesterday's game has merit, though. He took two stupid, stupid penalties that could have resulted in a loss rather than a win. He also looked incredibly lazy out there, just out for an afternoon skate on most shifts.

It would be one thing to point out the "obsession with Kunitz" if he played fine, and people still decided to ***** about him. But he didn't. He was one of the major minuses for the Pens yesterday, so it makes sense that a lot of people touched on that.

Kunitz is on the Bruce Orpek regular season energy expenditure plan.
 

Shady Machine

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When push came to shove, sully made the right moves last playoffs. I see the same thing happening again this time around. Personnel decisions in the regular season are much different than in the playoffs. Maybe its Fehr who sits(with kunitz pushed down to the 4th) but I can't see any way Guentzel isn't in the lineup when it really matters. Especially if we go a few games having a hard time scoring.

Who did Sully really sit that took guts? By the time Fleury was ready, we were starting the conference finals. I give Sully a ton of credit for going back to Murray after game 5, but other than the goalie situation, there weren't a lot of tough personnel decisions.

He did bring up the kids, but with Duper effectively retiring, Perron shipped out of town, Bennett eternally injured, Plots being a flop (which I will forever admit I was totally wrong on the Plots vs Kuhn thing), there weren't a lot of difficult decisions to make.
 

Kiith Nabaal

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Oct 11, 2013
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People have complained a bit about Kunitz for years though, and since he isn't a 50-60 point player anymore it just makes it worse for him lol
 

JimmyTwoTimes

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Who did Sully really sit that took guts? By the time Fleury was ready, we were starting the conference finals. I give Sully a ton of credit for going back to Murray after game 5, but other than the goalie situation, there weren't a lot of tough personnel decisions.

He did bring up the kids, but with Duper effectively retiring, Perron shipped out of town, Bennett eternally injured, Plots being a flop (which I will forever admit I was totally wrong on the Plots vs Kuhn thing), there weren't a lot of difficult decisions to make.

He easily could have stuck with Fleury when Murray struggled(on more than one occasion). The fact he realized Murray was the better option even with his lack of experience is enough for me to trust him this year when it matters most.
 

66-30-33

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Jan 24, 2006
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So will Crosby go all season without a huge game offensively? 3 points max but mostly 1 or 2 point games from here on out. Shows how consistent his production has been this season especially like 8 games less played then McJesus and only a few points back. He's still at 1.31 points per game.
 

Dipsy Doodle

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He easily could have stuck with Fleury when Murray struggled(on more than one occasion). The fact he realized Murray was the better option even with his lack of experience is enough for me to trust him this year when it matters most.

I don't think it's a terribly difficult decision to go back to your other goalie when your starter gets lit up for 5 goals in the ECF coming back from a concussion.
 

Gallatin

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Mar 4, 2010
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Kunitz is just a symptom. The real issue is the Management & Coaching Staff are allowing Kunitz to happen when there are better options.

This proves to us they have weak spots in their games. That they may not do a great job running the team, and preparing them to win another Cup.

Coaching and management are clearly light years better than just a few seasons ago. But many of us carry the scars of watching our team be mismanaged, and our generational star's prime years squandered in the interests of pandering to scrubs such as Adams, Scuderi, and Bylsma.

That's why people are obsessed with Kunitz & Fleury. Because we've seen it all before. And suffered for it.

And we were proven right in the end.
 

Dipsy Doodle

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lol, you guys act the same no matter what. It doesn't matter if we are the best or worst team in the league, there's always ONE GUY who is ruining the entire team. If Kunitz is gone all you nerds would do is whine about Fehr. How about enjoying the fact the team is super dominant and we have a coach who does nothing but push the right buttons and know how to get the best out of his imperfect roster?

Enjoying the teams dominance, appreciating all the things the coach does do right, and being frustrated about blatant problems that are going unrecognized or ignored are not mutually exclusive ideas.

We're trying to repeat here, something that hasn't been done in nearly 20 years. We're gonna need to be firing on all cylinders, and that means separating the wheat from the chaff.
 

SEALBound

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I bet Guentzel would be in top 5 on that chart, had he stayed with the big club.
Why scoring at ES is so hard for some of our wingers? Plenty of opportunities (judging by the eye test) but no goals.


Indeed. If anything that speaks more to how poorly Kunitz, Bonino, and Hagelin have played this season.

That ties him with Kunitz, Bonino, and Hagelin...while playing practically half as many minutes almost exclusively from the fourth line. To me that says a hell of a lot more about the seasons Kunitz, Bonino, and Hagelin are having than it says anything about Fehr.

Don't get me wrong, I'll take Kühn over him any day, but that's a horrible way to look at things...Fehr scores more frequently at 5-on-5 than either Cullen (1 moire goal in 101 more ES minutes) or Kühn (half as many goals in 2/3 the ES ice time), and goal scoring isn't high on any of their job descriptions.

Exactly. Goals from Fehr Cullen Wilson and Kuhnhackl are just gravy to me.

People have complained a bit about Kunitz for years though, and since he isn't a 50-60 point player anymore it just makes it worse for him lol

My only argument is that, say you replace Kunitz with Guentzel. Is Guentzel + additional production from other players > Kunitz's 40-50 points?

I believe that if Kunitz was traded at the beginning of the year and replaced with Guentzel, that we would have net higher goal totals.
 

Shady Machine

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Aug 6, 2010
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He easily could have stuck with Fleury when Murray struggled(on more than one occasion). The fact he realized Murray was the better option even with his lack of experience is enough for me to trust him this year when it matters most.

Sure he could have stuck with the goalie that lost game 5 and looked out of sorts doing so vs the guy that lead them to this point. Like I said, Sully gets tons of props from me for sticking with Murray, but beyond that decision, there weren't many other difficult ones.

Let me ask you again, who do you think Sully benches for Guentzel come playoff time?
 

JimmyTwoTimes

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Apr 13, 2010
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Sure he could have stuck with the goalie that lost game 5 and looked out of sorts doing so vs the guy that lead them to this point. Like I said, Sully gets tons of props from me for sticking with Murray, but beyond that decision, there weren't many other difficult ones.

Let me ask you again, who do you think Sully benches for Guentzel come playoff time?

If nobody is hurt? Wilson/Fehr/Kuhn
 

Ugene Magic

EVIL LAUGH
Oct 17, 2008
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Kunitz is just a symptom. The real issue is the Management & Coaching Staff are allowing Kunitz to happen when there are better options.

This proves to us they have weak spots in their games. That they may not do a great job running the team, and preparing them to win another Cup.

Coaching and management are clearly light years better than just a few seasons ago. But many of us carry the scars of watching our team be mismanaged, and our generational star's prime years squandered in the interests of pandering to scrubs such as Adams, Scuderi, and Bylsma.

That's why people are obsessed with Kunitz & Fleury. Because we've seen it all before. And suffered for it.

And we were proven right in the end.

They are not "allowing it to happen."

There are reasons why he plays and young cheaper guys go back down to the AHL.

The biggest of them all is the cap. You can't bench Kunitz and play other guys for extended periods of time without him being injured. They are that tight to the cap.

Secondly, he is not in a prime scoring position, or asked to be. He drives positive numbers and that's all they need from him while he does what he can in the other sectors.

The final part is all on all of those who can't handle going from one situation to another. You simply can't wipe the slate clean. This team is in no such manner at this point in time to be worried about anything but injuries happening to the star players.

It's blowing up miniscule issues into something it is not anywhere close to what caused those scars.

This team won with even more cuts to our psyche.

I just wonder how easily some of you would handle the back n forth scoring for the Pens 2nd cup in 1992. It was a lot more frustrating then this current core ever had put us through. Now imagine me, who never once got to watch a game during that finals, (worked 2nd shift) and had to listen to every game on the radio while I worked.

Yeah.... This place is very much out of touch with reality. There's some on here with realities that everything needs to be perfect and should go as such, and then there is actual reality where the actual business side and stuff behind closed doors we have no inkling about, is at work.

Being right has nothing to do about it. Unless you know all that is being done, or could be done behind those closed doors, your tune can change just with knowledge that, hey...... now that makes sense, nobody wanted him, or the many other scenarios that come into play dealing with running a team and its roster.

So while you are right, you are also wrong at the same time.

The obvious is still the obvious, you just didn't have to go through all the red tape to get there. You simply are not at the forefront of making those decisions with all the knowledge laid at your hands to making them.

Arm Chair GMing is a totally different reality.

I'd say step back, just watch the games for awhile.

That's your job as fans. You/we were never meant to be this involved with actual inner workings of running an NHL team.

In the end, you ruin your own time stepping over that line too far.

There's in the moment stuff = good, but to extend that way beyond, and to use it to define an entire season, is very much a step to insanity.

That's this place. It is starting to die down, but very much, alive.

Try fixing yourselves.

The Pens are not the problem.
 

Fordy

Registered User
May 28, 2008
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lol, you guys act the same no matter what. It doesn't matter if we are the best or worst team in the league, there's always ONE GUY who is ruining the entire team. If Kunitz is gone all you nerds would do is whine about Fehr. How about enjoying the fact the team is super dominant and we have a coach who does nothing but push the right buttons and know how to get the best out of his imperfect roster?

why not both
 
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