Post-Game Talk: Burgh 2, State of Florida 0

[Shady Machine]

I would wager it's neither. My money would be on them being given talking points from the Pens PR department.

Nah. Believe me, I think the Pens do have an active PR department, but I don't think Steiggy is given direct talking points. I just think he's a crazy fanboy that will do whatever he can to exaggerate the achievements and performance of the vets.

 

[Shady Machine]

Didn't catch the third, but man, Matt Cullen's still something else when you give him a week of rest. Tonight's a good argument for not overusing him in the regular season. Fresh, he's still the same player he was on Minnesota 6 or 7 years ago.

Agreed. It might be worth it to give Cully some rest and move Fehr to center or call up Sunny for a cup of coffee.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I'm not so sure I'd read so much into Sully's post-game comments. Not every coach is going to pull a MT shredding of the team (or inviting players outside for some old fashioned dispute settling)- motivating a team or a player is a lot more complicated than that. Sully could be trying to keep Kunitz from getting discouraged and forgetting his iron pills, he could be genuinely happy about the goal scoring and happy for Kunitz (and not wanting to tear him down on a milestone day), or he could just figure this is the best way to get Kunitz to do something on the ice and not tear him down if the team is shopping him.

Sullivan hasn't shown to me that he's in the Bylsma mould, so I'm inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt.

 

[WayneSid9987]

Kunitz is just engrained in the core of the team.
Like if Sully healthy scratched him, there'd be some sad and/or mad hombres(Sid, Geno, Tang, etc).
Just want the Kunitz chapter to be over. Need the next, younger/better player to get his chance to be engrained with the core.

 

[orby]

Kunitz is acceptable as a third liner. He's not ideal for the role but odds are they aren't trading him, so using him in the bottom 6 for now isn't a season-killing decision imo. Guentzel would be a better choice but unless they trade kunitz he's gonna be playing. Sullivan won't bench him because he hasn't been costing them games.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

All I want is something approaching consistency when it comes to vets and young players. I realize that vets will always have the benefit of a track record of trust and the stability of bigger contracts, but the double standard here is striking enough to make talk of across-the-board accountability laughable.

It was the same with Scuds last year. Thankfully that toy was taken away or we'd still be seeing him in the line-up every night and hearing his praises.

 

[Shady Machine]

I'm not so sure I'd read so much into Sully's post-game comments. Not every coach is going to pull a MT shredding of the team (or inviting players outside for some old fashioned dispute settling)- motivating a team or a player is a lot more complicated than that. Sully could be trying to keep Kunitz from getting discouraged and forgetting his iron pills, he could be genuinely happy about the goal scoring and happy for Kunitz (and not wanting to tear him down on a milestone day), or he could just figure this is the best way to get Kunitz to do something on the ice and not tear him down if the team is shopping him.

Sullivan hasn't shown to me that he's in the Bylsma mould, so I'm inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Sure but combine his comments on Kunitz (with zingers like "he plays like he's 27", "he plays the game so hard", "he helps us win in so many ways") and him literally never being benched when he's been consistently outplayed by other players and what other conclusion should we come to?

The good news is he is no longer stapled to Crosby or Malkin's wings, but he's still far from being utilized based on his performance.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Nah. Believe me, I think the Pens do have an active PR department, but I don't think Steiggy is given direct talking points. I just think he's a crazy fanboy that will do whatever he can to exaggerate the achievements and performance of the vets.

I take a simpler approach- I think Steiggy just isn't very smart or knowledgable and its important to him to be on the side of conventional wisdom.

 

[CanadianPensFan1]

Kunitz is acceptable as a third liner. He's not ideal for the role but odds are they aren't trading him, so using him in the bottom 6 for now isn't a season-killing decision imo. Guentzel would be a better choice but unless they trade kunitz he's gonna be playing. Sullivan won't bench him because he hasn't been costing them games.

Maybe not directly .. but indirectly?

You are given a group project at work. You have to work with a group of 6 other people. One guy is doing barely anything .. rarely contributes. Sure the other people can pick up the slack but that doesnt necessarily mean his work isnt hurting the group.

I'll admit .. I havent watched as many games as I would like, from what I have seen, Kunitz hasnt made a large amount of huge errors (ie. turning over the puck right in front of the net, etc, etc). But forcing his line to play with 2/3 the players it should be, is a net loss no matter how you slice it. Sure, he got a goal last night .. yay. But does that make up for the other 17 1/2 minutes of doing nothing else?

 

[ColePens]

Don't both home and away media vote on the #1 star though?

I mean, it's not like we don't know how dumb our media personalities are, so I hardly expect Florida's to be any better.

There is this "idea' that goes around the hockey world that people ignore what vets do because they've been in the league so long. Steiggy is the worst at it and he was very outspoken by not agreeing how Dan Bylsma was fired, even though the guy should have been fired 5 times. He will equally speak out about MAF being moved, if/when it happens. Give Steiggy credit.. he's a company man and he lives in this old time hockey mentality that vets should be given different respect than those who have not been here or are newer to the professional game.

Vets and people who have been around the hockey world are coddled. Seems like they always have been. Rookies have to prove themselves so much before they can even catch a break, when in reality it's more of a rookie league than ever. Their youth/speed/tenacity is making the game extremely watchable and they are some of the best players in the league. But their "mistakes", like those of Guentzel, are said but never explained.

But this concept of vets do no wrong is not a new thing. The "old time hockey" mentality needs to go. I hate that mentality so much. If a rookie played like Kunitz and took 2 dumb penalties but scored a goal, they'd be sat the next game. No doubt about it.

 

[Shady Machine]

I take a simpler approach- I think Steiggy just isn't very smart or knowledgable and its important to him to be on the side of conventional wisdom.

That's true too.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Sure but combine his comments on Kunitz (with zingers like "he plays like he's 27", "he plays the game so hard", "he helps us win in so many ways") and him literally never being benched when he's been consistently outplayed by other players and what other conclusion should we come to?

The good news is he is no longer stapled to Crosby or Malkin's wings, but he's still far from being utilized based on his performance.

I think the conclusion we should come to is that he's being used by a coach like they usually use vets (and that's not a good thing). That said, I think we've seen that Sullivan is open to using young players in even high pressure situations that it's not as foregone as we think. I dunno. The dude did bench a fan and front office favorite in Fleury for a complete unknown in Murray during the SC run.

But I really don't care about a coach's or GM's comments, they all have agendas and blindspots and I'm never going to see eye to eye with them about anything.

 

[MrBrightside]

Tampa Bay iced basically the same team that played in the ECF last year (other than Callahan and Coborn) and my God are they a mess. No idea what's happened to that team.

 

[CanadianPensFan1]

Nah. Believe me, I think the Pens do have an active PR department, but I don't think Steiggy is given direct talking points. I just think he's a crazy fanboy that will do whatever he can to exaggerate the achievements and performance of the vets.

I take a simpler approach- I think Steiggy just isn't very smart or knowledgable and its important to him to be on the side of conventional wisdom.

I think its a mixture of both.

Im sure the Pens PR puts stuff forward to the broadcast teams. Whether they use it or not, is up to them.

But I get the impression Steggy is one of those people that reads or hears "something" .. anything at all .. and immediately goes all ADHD on it and its all he can think about.

 

[HandshakeLine]

There is this "idea' that goes around the hockey world that people ignore what vets do because they've been in the league so long. Steiggy is the worst at it and he was very outspoken by not agreeing how Dan Bylsma was fired, even though the guy should have been fired 5 times. He will equally speak out about MAF being moved, if/when it happens. Give Steiggy credit.. he's a company man and he lives in this old time hockey mentality that vets should be given different respect than those who have not been here or are newer to the professional game.

Vets and people who have been around the hockey world are coddled. Seems like they always have been. Rookies have to prove themselves so much before they can even catch a break, when in reality it's more of a rookie league than ever. Their youth/speed/tenacity is making the game extremely watchable and they are some of the best players in the league. But their "mistakes", like those of Guentzel, are said but never explained.

But this concept of vets do no wrong is not a new thing. The "old time hockey" mentality needs to go. I hate that mentality so much. If a rookie played like Kunitz and took 2 dumb penalties but scored a goal, they'd be sat the next game. No doubt about it.

Oh, I agree Cole. But I think that's what's making the culture clash so pronounced- we live in a world of metrics, analytics, and merit. Lots of coaches, assistant coaches, media guys, and front office types still want the fantasy of the Code and old tyme hocket to be a real thing and will hold that up.

Changing culture happens really slowly from the inside, and it'll probably be another 20 years before you see the last vestiges of "play through the pain", "pay your dues", and "veteran intangibles" die away.

 

[orby]

Maybe not directly .. but indirectly?

You are given a group project at work. You have to work with a group of 6 other people. One guy is doing barely anything .. rarely contributes. Sure the other people can pick up the slack but that doesnt necessarily mean his work isnt hurting the group.

I'll admit .. I havent watched as many games as I would like, from what I have seen, Kunitz hasnt made a large amount of huge errors (ie. turning over the puck right in front of the net, etc, etc). But forcing his line to play with 2/3 the players it should be, is a net loss no matter how you slice it. Sure, he got a goal last night .. yay. But does that make up for the other 17 1/2 minutes of doing nothing else?

I don't disagree that he hurts the team overall, but what i mean is they're not losing. Their record of late is extremely strong. If they had gone .500 in december i could see sully tweaking the lineup with benchings, but they've been excellent, so i doubt it.

 

[CanadianPensFan1]

I don't disagree that he hurts the team overall, but what i mean is they're not losing. Their record of late is extremely strong. If they had gone .500 in december i could see sully tweaking the lineup with benchings, but they've been excellent, so i doubt it.

Ah ok. In a general sense, gotcha.

You're right. Its hard to justify changes, from their perspective, I suppose. They've gotta see it from the luxury boxes though. Lemieux must watch Kunitz play and just cry on the inside.

 

[Shady Machine]

I think the conclusion we should come to is that he's being used by a coach like they usually use vets (and that's not a good thing). That said, I think we've seen that Sullivan is open to using young players in even high pressure situations that it's not as foregone as we think. I dunno. The dude did bench a fan and front office favorite in Fleury for a complete unknown in Murray during the SC run.

But I really don't care about a coach's or GM's comments, they all have agendas and blindspots and I'm never going to see eye to eye with them about anything.

All true. There are worse blind spots than Kunitz. Watching last night's game and see Wilson-Cullen-Fehr all contribute on the 4th line made me realize how blessed we really are vs the Shero/Bylsma years. What a difference a 4th line can make when they aren't filled with anchors.

 

[NewAgeOutlaw]

Hornqvist is our Tomas Holmstrom. He just brings a dimension that makes the Penguins that much harder to play against. I'm sure defenders hate offensive players who never leave the net front area.

Kunitz continues to be the worst player in the nhl. Sullivan arguing his 2nd penalty was a Tomlin-level accountability move. Maybe Kunitz would play hard and take less stupid penalties if he actually was required to maintain a high standard of play just like everybody else on the roster.

 

[MrBrightside]

The Pens won 6-2 last night. Literally 42 of the first 94 posts in the postgame thread are about Chris Kunitz.

 

[Corvidae]

He always struck as a more entertaining version of errey. He could add a lot of colour.

 

[Gallatin]

The Pens won 6-2 last night. Literally 42 of the first 94 posts in the postgame thread are about Chris Kunitz.

You know - I used to think this board was bat**** crazy about stuff like this. But over time, they are ALWAYS proven right. I am a much much more knowledgable fan for being here, to the point many of my friends now think I am some hockey genius.

 

[MrBrightside]

You know - I used to think this board was bat**** crazy about stuff like this. But over time, they are ALWAYS proven right. I am a much much more knowledgable fan for being here, to the point many of my friends now think I am some hockey genius.

I'm not saying they're wrong. I actually agree that Kunitz is done and needs to be replaced. But the obsession with it makes reading any of the game threads/post-game threads absolutely unreadable.

 

[ColePens]

I'm not saying they're wrong. I actually agree that Kunitz is done and needs to be replaced. But the obsession with it makes reading any of the game threads/post-game threads absolutely unreadable.

There really wasn't all that much to talk about in that game. The one memorable moment would be Sid's dominant shift that ended w/ Sheary's goal. The first period was extremely sloppy. Tampa doesn't look like a team very inspired. Cullen had a great game. MAF/Geno/etc. were all good, but nothing outstanding.

The game was just a regular season game with not much to discuss. Pens scored a bunch, but as even Sully put it - it was a progression throughout the game.

 

[EliteGoaltending]

I bet Guentzel would be in top 5 on that chart, had he stayed with the big club.
Why scoring at ES is so hard for some of our wingers? Plenty of opportunities (judging by the eye test) but no goals.