Proposal: Building for 2021-2022

[Cowumbus]

Maybe but Bemstrom is a glorified AHL player.

I mean, I want him to be good, he just doesn’t show anything/enough.

He was hurt. You could tell when he came back from injury (much later than expected, my guess to get 100% healthy) he was out best player.

Do you realize how good of a rookie season he had last year? 20 points (10 goals) in 56 GP, and still hasn’t played 82 games for his career!

Kirby Dach had 23 points is 64 GP. Give him time.

 

[VT]

What do you think the chances are of this offer

5th OA 2021 + 8th OA 2021 + CBJ 1st 2022 + Korpisalo + Jenner

for

Eichel + Risto

Risto is obviously not ideal but we're going to need to get RD from somewhere. Colin Miller instead?

I don't watch the Sabres much and I don't know how those guys have played lately. Where do you think Risto is a fit?

Laine has slow value now but huge potential, he isn`t whorse player than Marner . And it would be stupid to trade him only for one bad season, especially if in contrast to Marner plays good in PO. So if trade only during the season. I doubt Domi is a player for Leafs and Jones is UFA after the season. Holl has M-NTC. Jenner is UFA after this season. Eichel is often injured and overrated so your value is too big.
To the lines.
Atkinson isn't a player for the first line, Marner is better on the right wing. Roslovic can't play in the third line in similar roster. This line should be hard, look at Jets for example.
Defense is bad. Werensi wih Holl and Gavrikov in the first pair... . Borgen isn't so good to play in TOP 6.
Simply, the roster is like for Toronto style contender but I doubt we would play higher than in the second round.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

He was hurt. You could tell when he came back from injury (much later than expected, my guess to get 100% healthy) he was out best player.

Do you realize how good of a rookie season he had last year? 20 points (10 goals) in 56 GP, and still hasn’t played 82 games for his career!

Kirby Dach had 23 points is 64 GP. Give him time.

... and a guaranteed slot on the top line it would seem.

Again, I hope you end up being right about this. But the discussion was about placing him on the top line and comparing him to Atkinson. Remembering that I was among the few advocating Cam start on the third line (with Jenner) prior to last season, I still think Bemstrom has some work to do to get to the top line.

 

[EspenK]

I know goals are goals but take away the hat trick and he only had 7 goals. I'm with DSJ on this.

 

[Gimli]

What do you think the chances are of this offer

5th OA 2021 + 8th OA 2021 + CBJ 1st 2022 + Korpisalo + Jenner

for

Eichel + Risto

Risto is obviously not ideal but we're going to need to get RD from somewhere. Colin Miller instead?

I don't watch the Sabres much and I don't know how those guys have played lately. Where do you think Risto is a fit?

I think that’s a strong offer if the Sabres are looking for draft capital, rather than a “centerpiece” of an already-drafted prospect or young player. Just my opinion- I would take that deal as BUF unless Lafreniere or Byfield are on the table (and I don’t think they will be).

On the flip side, that’s a lot of draft capital to give up for CBJ.

Risto and Colin Miller are both available and can be effective if used properly. Risto has been miscast as a #1 in BUF but he’s really a #3 in my view... cut his TOI to 20min or less and put him with a stable, smart defensive partner. He brings offensive ability and a mean streak, and needs defensive help. I was thinking “not a fit for CBJ” mainly because he’s a UFA after this year, and he’s not a Jones replacement. Ideally he’d slot in below Jones. But there could still be a place for him on any team, if utilized properly.

 

[majormajor]

Laine has slow value now but huge potential, he isn`t whorse player than Marner . And it would be stupid to trade him only for one bad season, especially if in contrast to Marner plays good in PO. So if trade only during the season. I doubt Domi is a player for Leafs and Jones is UFA after the season. Holl has M-NTC. Jenner is UFA after this season. Eichel is often injured and overrated so your value is too big.
To the lines.
Atkinson isn't a player for the first line, Marner is better on the right wing. Roslovic can't play in the third line in similar roster. This line should be hard, look at Jets for example.
Defense is bad. Werensi wih Holl and Gavrikov in the first pair... . Borgen isn't so good to play in TOP 6.
Simply, the roster is like for Toronto style contender but I doubt we would play higher than in the second round.

- Laine isn't in that conversation. Get real. This wasn't even the worst 2-3 months of Laine's career.

- In the real world obviously trade negotiations would go differently, we can't predict who wants what. This is just a blueprint.

- Holl's 10 team NTC, by the way, is submitted annually, and those are typically submitted at the usual "July 1st" date. The Jackets had their fill of D-men when this last came up for him, so there's a good chance they are not listed because they wouldn't have traded for him when he last submitted.

- Sabres need veteran leaders and grit, it was an often mentioned problem for them this year. Jenner is a good target for them.

- Atkinson is easy money on a line with two elite playmakers. I can't think of a better spot for him. He isn't slower, just less motivated these days. I could see him returning to 40 goals in such a situation. But I'd also be fine with Bemstrom there. Bjorkstrand too but he can carry his own line and Cam/Bem cannot, so it is a waste of his line driving ability to put him with two elite forwards.

- Okay, call Roslovic's line "the second line". Problem solved.

- That is a much improved D group, each elite puckmover gets his own stay-at-home guy, the way it should be.

- It is Toronto style, I agree it would need to add grit to go further in the playoffs. A Mason Marchment style trade would do wonders for it. I would gladly take these problems over the problems of your preferred lineup.

 

[Gimli]

Laine has slow value now but huge potential, he isn`t whorse player than Marner . And it would be stupid to trade him only for one bad season, especially if in contrast to Marner plays good in PO. So if trade only during the season. I doubt Domi is a player for Leafs and Jones is UFA after the season. Holl has M-NTC. Jenner is UFA after this season. Eichel is often injured and overrated so your value is too big.
To the lines.
Atkinson isn't a player for the first line, Marner is better on the right wing. Roslovic can't play in the third line in similar roster. This line should be hard, look at Jets for example.
Defense is bad. Werensi wih Holl and Gavrikov in the first pair... . Borgen isn't so good to play in TOP 6.
Simply, the roster is like for Toronto style contender but I doubt we would play higher than in the second round.

so much here that I both agree and disagree with.
- Laine is worse than Marner. But agree, he shouldn’t be sold now, at his lowest value.
- Eichel has had injuries, yes, but disagree that he’s overrated. When healthy, he’s a top 10 center in the world.
- Agree that the roster is Toronto-style and may not succeed in the playoffs... it would depend heavily on the progression of depth pieces.

 

[majormajor]

I think that’s a strong offer if the Sabres are looking for draft capital, rather than a “centerpiece” of an already-drafted prospect or young player. Just my opinion- I would take that deal as BUF unless Lafreniere or Byfield are on the table (and I don’t think they will be).

On the flip side, that’s a lot of draft capital to give up for CBJ.

Risto and Colin Miller are both available and can be effective if used properly. Risto has been miscast as a #1 in BUF but he’s really a #3 in my view... cut his TOI to 20min or less and put him with a stable, smart defensive partner. He brings offensive ability and a mean streak, and needs defensive help. I was thinking “not a fit for CBJ” mainly because he’s a UFA after this year, and he’s not a Jones replacement. Ideally he’d slot in below Jones. But there could still be a place for him on any team, if utilized properly.

That all makes sense, thanks. It is a lot for CBJ to give up, but it should be no surprise why they would be the highest bidders for Eichel. They should want him more than L.A. and N.Y.

From your description it sounds like a Gavrikov-Ristolainen second pair would be ideal. Obviously that would make sense for a team that didn't sign a top PP guy like Hamilton and retain Werenski, because Ristolainen adds value on the PP and would need one of the two slots. Perhaps then

Werenski - Holl
Gavrikov - Ristolainen
Murray - Peeke
Kukan

Looks good?

 

[EspenK]

so much here that I both agree and disagree with.
- Laine is worse than Marner. But agree, he shouldn’t be sold now, at his lowest value.
- Eichel has had injuries, yes, but disagree that he’s overrated. When healthy, he’s a top 10 center in the world.
- Agree that the roster is Toronto-style and may not succeed in the playoffs... it would depend heavily on the progression of depth pieces.

While I agree that is value is lower than if he had just come off a 30-40 goal pace I worry he may not improve his value much with CBJ's lack of playmakers and god awful power play. I'd trade him for the right (or even good) return.

 

[VT]

- Laine isn't in that conversation. Get real. This wasn't even the worst 2-3 months of Laine's career.

- In the real world obviously trade negotiations would go differently, we can't predict who wants what. This is just a blueprint.

- Holl's 10 team NTC, by the way, is submitted annually, and those are typically submitted at the usual "July 1st" date. The Jackets had their fill of D-men when this last came up for him, so there's a good chance they are not listed because they wouldn't have traded for him when he last submitted.

- Sabres need veteran leaders and grit, it was an often mentioned problem for them this year. Jenner is a good target for them.

- Atkinson is easy money on a line with two elite playmakers. I can't think of a better spot for him. He isn't slower, just less motivated these days. I could see him returning to 40 goals in such a situation. But I'd also be fine with Bemstrom there. Bjorkstrand too but he can carry his own line and Cam/Bem cannot, so it is a waste of his line driving ability to put him with two elite forwards.

- Okay, call Roslovic's line "the second line". Problem solved.

- That is a much improved D group, each elite puckmover gets his own stay-at-home guy, the way it should be.

- It is Toronto style, I agree it would need to add grit to go further in the playoffs. A Mason Marchment style trade would do wonders for it. I would gladly take these problems over the problems of your preferred lineup.

I'm writing from SmartPhone while I'm waiting a train so
sorry if something is bad.

- Laine's problem isn't his qualities but that he's unstable and he must learn to play the whole game. See Torts and Foligno words. But he's young only 23 so these whorse months
were when he was 18-21 years. Plus after this season he has a big motivation.
- Marner is bad in PO and it isn't only about stats although so many games without goals... sorry but if a player with around $10M cap salary it is very bad.
- I don't think Toronto would think about trade with Domi.
- I know but I doubt Holl would want to play here and honestly he isn't so good d-man.
- Jenner would be find for Sabres but again he's UFA after the next season.
- Cam isn't ideal now and he won't be younger.

 

[VT]

so much here that I both agree and disagree with.
- Laine is worse than Marner. But agree, he shouldn’t be sold now, at his lowest value.
- Eichel has had injuries, yes, but disagree that he’s overrated. When healthy, he’s a top 10 center in the world.
- Agree that the roster is Toronto-style and may not succeed in the playoffs... it would depend heavily on the progression of depth pieces.

I don't agree with Laine and Eichel. But only future shows who is right.

 

[majormajor]

While I agree that is value is lower than if he had just come off a 30-40 goal pace I worry he may not improve his value much with CBJ's lack of playmakers and god awful power play. I'd trade him for the right (or even good) return.

That's the way I think about it.

We don't have the right situation for him to improve so it seems, if anything, like his value will go lower.

 

[LetsGOJackets!!]

[QUOTE="Long Live Lyle, post: Could maybe also do without Holm and Domi in the Jones-Marner deal, keep Domi as a 2/3C (with Roz as the other 2/3C, potentially Tex as well) and not have to worry about signing Granlund and can roll with Werenski, Hamilton, Gavrikov, Peeke, Lehtonen, Kukan, MDZ, Harrington and/or maybe a bottom pair FA signing.

The problem is you're relying on all those things to hit. If one or two don't then it hurts things. I'm not going to say it's disastrous to have any of Hamilton or Marner or Eichel signed for 4+ years, but it puts you in a bit of a limbo if you only get one rather than if you either have all 3 (or at least 2) of them or plan for a "conventional" rebuild.

You bring up Hamilton a lot. Do you have any indication he'd want to sign here? I haven't seen anything of the sort. (I'm including it for this hypothetical. Would love if something like that were true, I've just heard nothing of the sort.)

ETA: Looking over that roster, I think I'd want to try to re-sign Foligno, if you're going to give up Jenner. That's a lot of grit/sandpaper out the door in a short time (Foligno, Anderson, Savard, Dubois, Dubinsky, Jenner...). I tend to think it's overrated to be honest, but you need some, and looking over that lineup, I'm honestly not sure if we'd have any. Maybe Dunne? Sort of Robinson/Foudy, I guess, but not really?[/QUOTE]

That is certainly the concern L3, but I thing M2 was just trying to show a retool scenario that could restore the Jackets to a very competitive state. By adding Eichel, Marner, Hamilton on long term contracts we could put the constant worry of signings behind us - and field a highly competitive team with a top young goalie. This is a dream scenario - assuming our current core is what we think it is, this team should be fighting until the last games of a playoff - Give the City of Columbus a chance to flip the coin in one off season & show the entire world how empassioned Blue Jackets can be.

There are some really good players in this core and they are all really young Zach, Vlad, Elvis, Bjork, Tex, Bem, Foudy - add our Russian prospects into this mix and this could catch fire.

I watched a lot of the SCC St Louis Blues.. they were at the bottom of the entire league in January(Pietrangelo, Tarasenko, Shwartz, Steen, Schenn) changed their coach, the newly added Ryan O'Reilly got acclimated and a young hot goalie Bennington caught fire. That was a miracle turn around. It can happen.

 

[VT]

One of my favourite rosters:

Nichuskin--Domi--Bjorkstrand
J.T. Miller--Texier--Laine
Bemstrom--Roslovic--Atkinson
Robinson--Jenner--Foudy

Werenski, Oleksiak
Gavrikov, Lehtonen
MDZ, Kukan/Carlsson/Peeke

Merzlikins

1. We should three very good line plus any wouldn't the first.
2. Nichuskin is better Robinson
3. If Tex couldn't play in the center he and J.T. could change each other.
4. I don't see any reason why Bemstrom couldn't learn to play on the left wing.
5. IMHO Oleksiak would be good Werenski's partner.
6. Gavrikov-Lehtonen and MDZ-Kukan have very good chemistry.

We could start with some players and then decide. But I know Miller and Oleksiak are only a dream... .

 

[CBJWerenski8]

https://twitter.com/nhl_watcher/status/1400821329423745030?s=21

 

[MissADD]

https://twitter.com/nhl_watcher/status/1400821329423745030?s=21

You know, somewhere in the world right now, there is a dumpster that is on fire, and it is thinking to itself. "You know I may be a dumpster fire, but at least I'm not the Buffalo Sabers."

 

[EspenK]

If Buffalo is trading Eichel because of his neck issues isn't that a big red flag? I get they are pissed off at each other but yikes. Hopefully it lowers whatever the cost to acquire him is if CBJ are in the mix.

 

[DoingItCoolKiwi]

Don't see Eichel happening, but Kuznetzov is someone I think could be realistic. PPG potential but just had a down year. Not exactly a long-term solution to C but he'd fill the gap as 1C until a draft pick is ready

 

[KJ Dangler]

Nolan Patrick has requested a trade

 

[CBJx614]

Don't see Eichel happening, but Kuznetzov is someone I think could be realistic. PPG potential but just had a down year. Not exactly a long-term solution to C but he'd fill the gap as 1C until a draft pick is ready

No way they bring Kuz in with his off ice issues and the team being so young and trying to rebuild the culture.

 

[MissADD]

If Buffalo is trading Eichel because of his neck issues isn't that a big red flag? I get they are pissed off at each other but yikes. Hopefully it lowers whatever the cost to acquire him is if CBJ are in the mix.

It could be a red flag. I still don't get the neck thing. I get he has an issue, but last I checked it was he wanted surgery and Buffalo didn't want him to have it. Too make it a red flag, it depends on what the issue with his neck is. i haven't seen the reason.

 

[DoingItCoolKiwi]

No way they bring Kuz in with his off ice issues and the team being so young and trying to rebuild the culture.

Oh right, he is cokehead. Forgot about that

 

[KJ Dangler]

It could be a red flag. I still don't get the neck thing. I get he has an issue, but last I checked it was he wanted surgery and Buffalo didn't want him to have it. Too make it a red flag, it depends on what the issue with his neck is. i haven't seen the reason.

He wants to pursue a surgery thats never been done on an athlete that plays in contact sports.. I believe.

 

[CBJx614]

It could be a red flag. I still don't get the neck thing. I get he has an issue, but last I checked it was he wanted surgery and Buffalo didn't want him to have it. Too make it a red flag, it depends on what the issue with his neck is. i haven't seen the reason.

Basically the surgery is one that no active player has had and has come back from. The doctors think he could get by with physical therapy to rehab. Eichel and his doctor want the surgery.


It wouldn't be the first time a player has had a surgery that was once seen as career ending only to come back and be fine.

 

[EDM]

Wow, I see an awful lot of trying to make us a contender NEXT YEAR. Much of this is too fast for me.