Buffalo Bills Buffalo Bills 2017 Preseason #3 at BAL Saturday 8/26 7pm. Anquan Boldin retires.

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[joshjull]

Member when people thought Boldin was a great team guy and leader?

Yep and I still think that. Its fairly obvious, from his comments today, that bigger things played into his decision.

 

[SabresFanNorthPortFL]

I'm not relying on that. I'm relying on track record and what he's done in the NFL. Name the last Bills QB to run for over 250 yards in a playoff game?

I brought up one article to show some consensus says he's better than a mid road backup (which honestly is what the Bills need). Here's an article on why that article is wrong: http://www.businessinsider.com/colin-kaepernick-backup-qb-argument-stat-check-2017-6

Can you honestly say Kaep is worse than Yates and Peterman? And also point to what NFL experience says Yates and Peterman are better.

In the Super Bowl, a drop back, pocket passers-by iso undefeated, with only Russell Wilson and that Seattle defense giving argument to that fact. That's right, 51-0!!!!!

Elway didn't win until he had T Davis running the ball, and Steve Young didnt win until he learned how to play the position behind that Montana guy. So over the last two decades you've got guys like the Manning brothers, Brady, Brad Johnson, Kurt Warner, Rothesberger, etc winning the big game. Do you see any of those guys running??????

NO


A qb job is to read the defense, execute the play, and not to put himself in harms way. Where is RGIII???? They let their $100 million qb go around the end enough times to scramble his brains, and he's done.

Once you get to the playoffs, you play a good to great defense every week. A good to great defense can contain a running qb, make him sit in the pocket and mist times they make bad decisions with the ball under pressure.

Drop back, pocket passers are what wins championships, 51-0



Kapernick was good for a spell, until there was enough tape on him, then he was a one trick pony.

 

[Takeo]

For what it's worth (nothing), here's my latest 53. The asterisks open up a couple wildcard possibilities (Brandon Reilly?)...

QB Tyrod Taylor
QB Nathan Peterman
QB TJ Yates
RB LeSean McCoy
RB Jonathan Williams
RB Mike Tolbert
RB Cedric O'Neal
FB Patrick DiMarco
WR Jordan Matthews
WR Zay Jones
WR Andre Holmes
WR Brandon Tate
WR Rod Streater*
TE Charles Clay
TE Nick O'Leary
TE Logan Thomas
OT Cordy Glenn*
OT Jordan Mills
OT Seantrel Henderson**
OT Dion Dawkins
OL Michael Ola
G Richie Incognito
G John Miller
C Eric Wood
C Ryan Groy
DE Jerry Hughes
DE Shaq Lawson
DE Eddie Yarbrough
DE Ryan Davis
DT Marcell Dareus
DT Kyle Williams
DT Adolphus Washington
DT Jerel Worthy
LB Preston Brown
LB Lorenzo Alexander
LB Ramon Humber
LB Gerald Hodges
LB Tanner Vallejo
LB Matt Milano
LB Reggie Ragland
CB Tre'Davious White
CB Shareece Wright
CB EJ Gaines
CB Kevon Seymour
CB Leonard Johnson
CB Bradley Sylve
S Micah Hyde
S Jordan Poyer
S Shamiel Gary
S Colt Anderson
K Stephen Hauschka
P Colton Schmidt
LS Reid Ferguson
* injured
** suspended

 

[SoFFacet]

Redskins traded up from 6 to 2 using 3 1sts and a 2nd. Beane currently has 3 1sts, 3 2nds, and 3 3rds in the next two drafts as ammunition. I think the Bills can be as low as 10 and still get into the top 3 for a QB.

*The price will change depending on how the QB class shaped up.

The Bills aren't doing it right if they don't trade McCoy and/or Taylor. I'd personally trade McCoy for three reasons: the pick, to tank, and to ensure he doesn't turn into a disgruntled employee, as any elite player in a tank might. I'd probably keep Taylor, but would need to see what was available.

The Watkins & Darby trades don't need to be part of a larger tanking effort to make sense.

 

[brian_griffin]

Redskins traded up from 6 to 2 using 3 1sts and a 2nd. Beane currently has 3 1sts, 3 2nds, and 3 3rds in the next two drafts as ammunition. I think the Bills can be as low as 10 and still get into the top 3 for a QB.

*The price will change depending on how the QB class shaped up.

The Bills aren't doing it right if they don't trade McCoy and/or Taylor. I'd personally trade McCoy for three reasons: the pick, to tank, and to ensure he doesn't turn into a disgruntled employee, as any elite player in a tank might. I'd probably keep Taylor, but would need to see what was available.

In hindsight, wouldn't they have been better off keeping the picks and drafting 1st round talent at other positions and taking a lesser QB?

 

[Rowley Birkin]

I remember this feeling. Feels like the 2013 off-season for the Sabres. Pominville gone. Roy gone. Steve Ott just named as co-cap. A few months later Vanek is traded. Grigorenko situation is a mess.

We know what they're doing. Fire up the tank avatars.

Fortunately, it's probably only a year, and it'll be over once they take a QB at the draft.

Does tanking actually work like this in the NFL?

Also given the fact there are going to be another few pretty horrific teams this year....one of which is in the same division.

The Boldon thing is pretty crazy but when you think about it more it's completely understandable.

 

[Der Jaeger]

The Watkins & Darby trades don't need to be part of a larger tanking effort to make sense.

True. Or they could be part of a bigger plan.

In hindsight, wouldn't they have been better off keeping the picks and drafting 1st round talent at other positions and taking a lesser QB?

True. We'll also see how the Wentz and Trubisky trade ups work out, as well.

Does tanking actually work like this in the NFL?

Also given the fact there are going to be another few pretty horrific teams this year....one of which is in the same division.

The Boldon thing is pretty crazy but when you think about it more it's completely understandable.

I don't know if tanking works in the NFL, but I think we're about to find out. If it does work, I think the model is a one-year tank. You only tank in the NFL to get a QB. That's one player, and trading into the top 5 in the NFL draft is pretty common. In the NHL, teams need multiple drafts to get franchise centers and D, and top ten trades hardly ever occur.

If I were Bolden, I'd jump ship too. Why sacrifice your body playing a game, when the team's commitment to winning this season is questionable?

 

[Takeo]

The Watkins & Darby trades don't need to be part of a larger tanking effort to make sense.

Agreed. Watkins was traded because he's injury prone, heading into the final year of his contract, and hasn't earned a sizeable second deal. Not because of a tank. Darby was traded because he doesn't fit McDermott's zone defense. Not because of a tank. The objective of the NFL draft isn't primarily to acquire the top pick (a la tanking), but rather to acquire numerous early round picks because impact starters can be had in numerous rounds.

 

[sabrebuild]

Agreed. Watkins was traded because he's injury prone, heading into the final year of his contract, and hasn't earned a sizeable second deal. Not because of a tank. Darby was traded because he doesn't fit McDermott's zone defense. Not because of a tank. The objective of the NFL draft isn't primarily to acquire the top pick (a la tanking), but rather to acquire numerous early round picks because impact starters can be had in numerous rounds.

Wouldn't tanking this year lead to more early round picks that could be starters?

Seems to me, they should trade McCoy and Dareus. McCoy will be too old by the time the new qb is ready and Dareus has been unreliable for his career on and off the field. Dareus can probably bring in quite the haul by NFL trade standards.

Get your qb this draft and then go back to being incompetent for two decades.

 

[Onslow]

In the NHL, those two could be traded for decent assets. In the NFL, their contracts severely devalue them. I'd be surprised to get at 4th for either of them.

 

[5 Minute Major]

Wouldn't tanking this year lead to more early round picks that could be starters?

Seems to me, they should trade McCoy and Dareus. McCoy will be too old by the time the new qb is ready and Dareus has been unreliable for his career on and off the field. Dareus can probably bring in quite the haul by NFL trade standards.

Get your qb this draft and then go back to being incompetent for two decades.

Dareus is unreliable both on and off the field but should bring in quite the haul.

 

[sabresfan129103]

If you were guaranteed to get a QB that is Aaron Rogers quality would you give up all your draft picks for 2 straight years?

 

[AustonsNostrils]

If you were guaranteed to get a QB that is Aaron Rogers quality would you give up all your draft picks for 2 straight years?

Yes no question about it, just look back at Bills drafts and see what we got from them. Aaron Rodgers is worth more than any package of players drafted in 2 consecutive drafts by the Bills in the past 20 years.

 

[Kublakhan]

Yep and I still think that. Its fairly obvious, from his comments today, that bigger things played into his decision.

I hope he buys a ticket for Cameron Jefferson out of town wile he is at it..

 

[Fezzy126]

Can we stop acting like tanking in the NFL is viable? Since 2005 there have been 32 QBs selected in the first round. Those QBs have a whopping 4 SB appearances (Rodgers, Flacco, Ryan, Newton) and 2 SB wins (Rodgers, Flacco).

Here's draft position of the last 15 super bowl winners:
Tom Brady 199
Peyton Manning 1
Tom Brady 199
Russell Wilson 75
Joe Flacco 18
Eli Manning 1
Aaron Rodgers 24
Drew Brees 32
Ben Roethlisberger 11
Eli Manning 1
Peyton Manning 1
Ben Roethlisberger 11
Tom Brady 199
Tom Brady 199
Brad Johnson 227

Other than the Mannings, we would have been in position to draft any of those other guys.

I doubt that all the QBs will get picked ahead of us anyway... The last time a draft was hyped this much a year ahead of time was the 2012 draft: Luck, Barkley, Cousins, Weeden, and Foles were all highly thought of prospects. Barkley stayed in school an extra year and everyone outside of Luck was good but not great and fell in the draft. Hopefully we'll get a guy, no matter where we land in the draft.

 

[is the answer jesus]

Can we stop acting like tanking in the NFL is viable? Since 2005 there have been 32 QBs selected in the first round. Those QBs have a whopping 4 SB appearances (Rodgers, Flacco, Ryan, Newton) and 2 SB wins (Rodgers, Flacco).

Here's draft position of the last 15 super bowl winners:
Tom Brady 199
Peyton Manning 1
Tom Brady 199
Russell Wilson 75
Joe Flacco 18
Eli Manning 1
Aaron Rodgers 24
Drew Brees 32
Ben Roethlisberger 11
Eli Manning 1
Peyton Manning 1
Ben Roethlisberger 11
Tom Brady 199
Tom Brady 199
Brad Johnson 227

Other than the Mannings, we would have been in position to draft any of those other guys.

I doubt that all the QBs will get picked ahead of us anyway... The last time a draft was hyped this much a year ahead of time was the 2012 draft: Luck, Barkley, Cousins, Weeden, and Foles were all highly thought of prospects. Barkley stayed in school an extra year and everyone outside of Luck was good but not great and fell in the draft. Hopefully we'll get a guy, no matter where we land in the draft.

We weren't in a position to draft most of those guys. Roethlisberger was selected before we picked, Rodgers was picked in a year we had no 1st (because of the Losman trade up), Flacco sucks so who cares about him, obviously never had a chance at either Manning. Everyone in the league whiffed on Brady he's a complete anomaly. The only 2 on the list we had a legit shot at were Brees and Wilson. We really don't know how viable tanking may or may not be in the NFL. I can't honestly think of too many examples in the past of teams doing it.

 

[Samsonite23]

We weren't in a position to draft most of those guys. Roethlisberger was selected before we picked, Rodgers was picked in a year we had no 1st (because of the Losman trade up), Flacco sucks so who cares about him, obviously never had a chance at either Manning. Everyone in the league whiffed on Brady he's a complete anomaly. The only 2 on the list we had a legit shot at were Brees and Wilson. We really don't know how viable tanking may or may not be in the NFL. I can't honestly think of too many examples in the past of teams doing it.

The Rodgers draft definitely counts. We had a first and traded it for a crappy QB. And I'm not the biggest Flacco fan, but he'd be the best QB the bills have had since Kelly by a mile. He's a Super Bowl MVP.

 

[SoFFacet]

Wouldn't tanking this year lead to more early round picks that could be starters?

Seems to me, they should trade McCoy and Dareus. McCoy will be too old by the time the new qb is ready and Dareus has been unreliable for his career on and off the field. Dareus can probably bring in quite the haul by NFL trade standards.

Get your qb this draft and then go back to being incompetent for two decades.

Hockey logic.

 

[Push Dr Tracksuit]

Can we stop acting like tanking in the NFL is viable? Since 2005 there have been 32 QBs selected in the first round. Those QBs have a whopping 4 SB appearances (Rodgers, Flacco, Ryan, Newton) and 2 SB wins (Rodgers, Flacco).

Here's draft position of the last 15 super bowl winners:
Tom Brady 199
Peyton Manning 1
Tom Brady 199
Russell Wilson 75
Joe Flacco 18
Eli Manning 1
Aaron Rodgers 24
Drew Brees 32
Ben Roethlisberger 11
Eli Manning 1
Peyton Manning 1
Ben Roethlisberger 11
Tom Brady 199
Tom Brady 199
Brad Johnson 227

Other than the Mannings, we would have been in position to draft any of those other guys.

I doubt that all the QBs will get picked ahead of us anyway... The last time a draft was hyped this much a year ahead of time was the 2012 draft: Luck, Barkley, Cousins, Weeden, and Foles were all highly thought of prospects. Barkley stayed in school an extra year and everyone outside of Luck was good but not great and fell in the draft. Hopefully we'll get a guy, no matter where we land in the draft.

why does that make tanking not a viable strategy? were all those guys not available in the top 5?

plus the list leaves out guys like Newton (1st) Ryan (3rd) Luck (1st) Rivers (4th) Sanchez (lol 5th) Alex Smith (1st) who all made it to at least 1 AFC/NFC championship game

it also ignores that Brady/Manning have dominated the AFC for the last 20 years

6 of the last 10 years the NFC championship game has featured a top 5 pick at QB and even with Brady occupying 1 spot in 8 of the last 10 AFC championship games 7 of them have had a top 5 pick at QB

and for the last 10 years half of the teams with first round byes had a top 5 QB

 

[Fezzy126]

why does that make tanking not a viable strategy? were all those guys not available in the top 5?

plus the list leaves out guys like Newton (1st) Ryan (3rd) Luck (1st) Rivers (4th) Sanchez (lol 5th) Alex Smith (1st) who all made it to at least 1 AFC/NFC championship game

it also ignores that Brady/Manning have dominated the AFC for the last 20 years

6 of the last 10 years the NFC championship game has featured a top 5 pick at QB and even with Brady occupying 1 spot in 8 of the last 10 AFC championship games 7 of them have had a top 5 pick at QB

and for the last 10 years half of the teams with first round byes had a top 5 QB

I am not ignoring that point, quite the opposite. My larger point is that there is a false narrative developing about needing a high 1st to get a franchise QB. This point is backed up by the data. Since 2005, only 5 of the 32 QBs are really quality starting QBs. Even if you throw out the data from the last 2 years, it is an 18% hit rate (5/27). This isn't hockey, there is no viable way of predicting a franchise QB. We tanked for Eichel because there was a >90% chance he would be elite. The NFL is a complete crapshoot at QB.

The league perception has been skewed by a handful of generational QBs over the last 20 years (Brady, Manning, Brees, 2004 draft). Once these guys decline, the league will be wide open again.

 

[Push Dr Tracksuit]

I am not ignoring that point, quite the opposite. My larger point is that there is a false narrative developing about needing a high 1st to get a franchise QB. This point is backed up by the data. Since 2005, only 5 of the 32 QBs are really quality starting QBs. Even if you throw out the data from the last 2 years, it is an 18% hit rate (5/27). This isn't hockey, there is no viable way of predicting a franchise QB. We tanked for Eichel because there was a >90% chance he would be elite. The NFL is a complete crapshoot at QB.

The league perception has been skewed by a handful of generational QBs over the last 20 years (Brady, Manning, Brees, 2004 draft). Once these guys decline, the league will be wide open again.

So what % of QBs not taken in the top 5 are starters? Let's also factor out QBs that had no business being taken at the top of the draft but were because desperate teams reach for QBs. Would you rather draft and have your pick of any QB or would you rather have the top 4 already drafted and you can choose from the rest?

The false narrative is that any single pick after the top of the draft is more likely to return a starter than any single pick in the top 5. If you make 243 picks versus 10 picks over 15 years more successes will come from the 243.

 

[is the answer jesus]

The Rodgers draft definitely counts. We had a first and traded it for a crappy QB. And I'm not the biggest Flacco fan, but he'd be the best QB the bills have had since Kelly by a mile. He's a Super Bowl MVP.

That's ultimately the point. The majority of late 1st round qb's fizzle out like Losman. Rodgers is the exception not the rule, and of course Flacco is better than anything we've had since Kelly, our qb situation the last 20 years has been one of the worst in the entire league. Bottoming out and getting the highest pick possible doesn't assure us we get a franchise qb, but it gives us a better chance.

 

[26CornerBlitz]

BILLS TODAY: POYER HAVING A PRODUCTIVE CAMP

Bills safety Jordan Poyer got a big time compliment from head coach Sean McDermott for his style of play and progress since he stepped into Buffalo's secondary.

 

[vcv]

I thought we were moving on from the Kaep/politics stuff?