Confirmed Trade: [BUF/NAS] Jimmy Vesey's Draft Rights for 2016 3rd (#76) Part III

[BruinLVGA]

Ohh sorry, we were talking about different things then. This isn't a "I hate Boston, their players suck" post. It's about realistically needing high scoring line mates for Calder consideration as a forward. If your not putting up 60+ pts, maybe even 70+, as forward, your not likely to get the nod next year. If the rest of the team isn't hitting those numbers, Vesey isn't likely to either. Boston spread the scoring strategy may or may not have its merits. I don't have a strong opinion on it - so if you want to claim they can win a cup that way, by all means, I will not argue it. But if I were Vesey, I would like my odds of getting to 60+ pts next to Kane, who had 106 pts, 46 goals alot more than Krejci, Spooner or Pastrnak who had 43 goal combined.

I am really not trying to besmirch your team. Simply pointing out why it is not THE BEST career decision for Vesey. An idea can have its merits but still fall short of excellence. And in this case, I must say Vesey to Boston, does.

Oh ok, yes, it was two different things then.

I don't think Vesey would put up 60-70 points in Boston, even if he would probably be on Krejci's wing (Krejci, was the 7th center with most assists in 2015-16. No slouch on that exercise...). To be frank, if Vesey gets 60-70 points anywhere, I would be astonished.
I saw in a thread (maybe the Vesey thread in the Bruins section... I forget now...) that someone had a list of points produced by 23 year olds in their first season in the NHL at any position, and only 1 or 2 players ever went above 60 points. The recordman was Michael Ryder with 63 points.

While Vesey has developed a good resume, he is no McDavid, Eichel, etc etc. If he gets 45-50 points, it would be a HUGE success. If I would be asked to have a wild guess, I would say he gets 40 points (15/25).

As far as the Calder is concerned, I think it will be a Matthews / Laine race.

All in all, I think Vesey would be wise to go to Boston because a) it's where he was born, grew up & it's the team he always rooted for b) all his family and friends are in Boston c) he would be mentored by guys like Bergeron d) Boston has still a very strong core in its prime that can be relevant e) there's a good deal of good prospects coming through the pipeline but no absolute star like Matthews or Eichel to take the spotlight away from Vesey.
It's a no brainer, in my opinion.

 

[The Old Master]

I think Vesey should go to pgh...... because i'm a fan of the pen's......it's a no brainer, in my opinion.

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

I think Vesey should go to pgh...... because i'm a fan of the pen's......it's a no brainer, in my opinion.

It certainly makes more sense than Chicago atleast.

 

[Dogewow]

Oh ok, yes, it was two different things then.

I don't think Vesey would put up 60-70 points in Boston, even if he would probably be on Krejci's wing (Krejci, was the 7th center with most assists in 2015-16. No slouch on that exercise...). To be frank, if Vesey gets 60-70 points anywhere, I would be astonished.
I saw in a thread (maybe the Vesey thread in the Bruins section... I forget now...) that someone had a list of points produced by 23 year olds in their first season in the NHL at any position, and only 1 or 2 players ever went above 60 points. The recordman was Michael Ryder with 63 points.

While Vesey has developed a good resume, he is no McDavid, Eichel, etc etc. If he gets 45-50 points, it would be a HUGE success. If I would be asked to have a wild guess, I would say he gets 40 points (15/25).

As far as the Calder is concerned, I think it will be a Matthews / Laine race.

All in all, I think Vesey would be wise to go to Boston because a) it's where he was born, grew up & it's the team he always rooted for b) all his family and friends are in Boston c) he would be mentored by guys like Bergeron d) Boston has still a very strong core in its prime that can be relevant e) there's a good deal of good prospects coming through the pipeline but no absolute star like Matthews or Eichel to take the spotlight away from Vesey.
It's a no brainer, in my opinion.

Sorry, it really isn't a no brainer.

I can respect the reasons why Vesey would heavily consider Boston, but there are other teams out there that offer the same/better opportunities.

If Vesey chooses Boston, then I will 100% believe that it was because he wanted to play in his hometown, and play for a team he rooted for growing up. There isn't anything roster wise or contending wise that puts Boston ahead of teams like Pitt or Chicago, and there isn't anything prospect/future wise that puts them ahead of teams like Buffalo or Toronto.

 

[SoCalFan]

Most of this Vesey to Chicago talk is mainly speculation, just because they don't have a clear LW for Toews, although I can't see what Chicago would offer him that Pittsburgh wouldn't be able to offer him too. I'd still say that we can replace Kunitz or Sheary with Vesey, to play next to Crosby or Malkin. Sure, there may be slightly more competition over that LW spot, but that may just elevate his play. He'd also be playing on the closer contender for the cup. Pittsburgh would also have a much better shot at re-signing him after two years.

b/c you won it last year? BFD! Chicago won it the year before, went to the WCF the year before that, and won another Cup the year before that. what has PIT done in the last 5 years again? even after the coaching change, when you were "annihilating everyone", you still lost both games against the Hawks. you may be willing to to write them off (without seeing either team on the ice yet this season), but I'm not. we have no idea how either team is going to play this year, but CHI's track record for putting a Cup contender together is well proven.

geez, Pens fans these days. win one Cup in the last 5 years and all of sudden you're the be all and end all of hockey.

 

[sabres_phan]

geez, Pens fans these days. win one Cup in the last 5 years and all of sudden you're the be all and end all of hockey.

Lol, you've convinced me that Chicago deserves nothing more for quite a few years. Your perspective has become (understandably) warped.

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

b/c you won it last year? BFD! Chicago won it the year before, went to the WCF the year before that, and won another Cup the year before that. what has PIT done in the last 5 years again? even after the coaching change, when you were "annihilating everyone", you still lost both games against the Hawks. you may be willing to to write them off (without seeing either team on the ice yet this season), but I'm not. we have no idea how either team is going to play this year, but CHI's track record for putting a Cup contender together is well proven.

geez, Pens fans these days. win one Cup in the last 5 years and all of sudden you're the be all and end all of hockey.

I'm sorry. I had no idea that a teams current competitiveness is based on all of your accomplishments within the last five years, and not on the teams most recent play and evaluation of how they have handled the offseason.

 

[SoCalFan]

Lol, you've convinced me that Chicago deserves nothing more for quite a few years. Your perspective has become (understandably) warped.

you think I like when my own fans act that way? that's ********.

nowhere did I say the Hawks had a better shot this year. nowhere. so the question still stands...the Pens have no sustained success yet, but somehow they are closer to a Cup contender than Chicago? give me a break. I'd say their odds are pretty even.

 

[SoCalFan]

I'm sorry. I had no idea that a teams current competitiveness is based on all of your accomplishments within the last five years, and not on the teams most recent play and evaluation of how they have handled the offseason.

its your opinion on "how they've handled the offseason". they add Campbell which makes the D MUCH better since they can move TVR where he truly belongs. add Kempny which will hopefully really lock down that last pair. lose Teuvo and Shaw (you know, those role players that the Hawks lose every year) and what? now they are further from a Cup contender? is their roster even finalized at this point??

and yes, when someone or something proves in the recent past they can succeed repetitively, that carries weight whether you like it or not.

 

[JustABlackhawksFan]

Most of this Vesey to Chicago talk is mainly speculation, just because they don't have a clear LW for Toews, although I can't see what Chicago would offer him that Pittsburgh wouldn't be able to offer him too. I'd still say that we can replace Kunitz or Sheary with Vesey, to play next to Crosby or Malkin. Sure, there may be slightly more competition over that LW spot, but that may just elevate his play. He'd also be playing on the closer contender for the cup. Pittsburgh would also have a much better shot at re-signing him after two years.

Except it's not, because Vesey's agent actually came out and said Chicago is on his "short list." And the Blackhawks coach and GM have been spotted attending Vesey's games in Foxborough this summer.

On the other hand, there has been no credible source saying Pittsburgh is on his "list." I suppose Pittsburgh might BE on the list, but there has been no confirmation of that thus far.

The point being, though, that any talk of Vesey to Chicago is more than just mere speculation. I still feel like he ends up in Boston in the end, but people are not just discussing Chicago for no reason.

 

[Mpasta]

I think Vesey should go to pgh...... because i'm a fan of the pen's......it's a no brainer, in my opinion.

Fans of the Pens use PGH when referring to Pittsburgh?

 

[Kristopher Letang]

Fans of the Pens use PGH when referring to Pittsburgh?

I hate it too But I guess it's better than MON for Montreal instead of MTL.

 

[Irishguy42]

I hate it too But I guess it's better than MON for Montreal instead of MTL.

Friedman confirmed in an AMA a while back that he uses MON/CAL/etc to troll people.

Well, at least now that's his intention. It's likely muscle memory by now, but the intent has changed.

 

[aufheben]

Friedman confirmed in an AMA a while back that he uses MON/CAL/etc to troll people.

Well, at least now that's his intention. It's likely muscle memory by now, but the intent has changed.

Friedman is the man.

 

[KnightofBoston]

I hope he signs in Montreal. Bruin fans would lose they minds. And he really isn't that good.

If he's not that good then why would Bruins fans lose their minds?


Imo its between Boston and Chigacco at, with the small chance of a very random team out of left field

Buffalo is only considered because they own his negotiating rights which was never his decision and if anything it shows he likely won't sign there because he likely would have already, and because Eichel plays there, but I have it on good authority that while Eichel likes playing with the guys on the Sabres and for the coach, he hates living in Buffalo. Doesn't spell well for the future of him staying or what he would suggest to his friend Jimmy in confidence. Not to mention if we're going to use the friend angle, Vesey has more friends in the Bruins organization

Most likely Vesey and his agent humor Buffalo but focus on the Bruins and Hawks and a team no one has mentioned yet. Boston will have to ensure him they'll provide a situation he can grow and put up points in and that the organization is headed in a good direction. Chigacco will have to convince him playing with toews is and in Chigacco is superior enough to playing with Krejci or Bergeron to move to a different time zone with little familiarity


Likely Vesey scores 20/20 his first season wherever he goes and goes on to be a 30-40 goal scorer

 

[sabres_phan]

you think I like when my own fans act that way? that's ********.

nowhere did I say the Hawks had a better shot this year. nowhere. so the question still stands...the Pens have no sustained success yet, but somehow they are closer to a Cup contender than Chicago? give me a break. I'd say their odds are pretty even.

I'll bet you like all those shiny Cups though!

I couldn't care less about Chicago or Pittsburgh or your argument over whose awesome team is better, tbh.

 

[TheDoldrums]

Likely Vesey scores 20/20 his first season wherever he goes and goes on to be a 30-40 goal scorer

Yeah that seems likely

 

[Dogewow]

Likely Vesey scores 20/20 his first season wherever he goes and goes on to be a 30-40 goal scorer

Yeah... lets not get ahead of our selves.

 

[Pyromaniac]

I couldn't care less about Chicago or Pittsburgh or your argument over whose awesome team is better, tbh.

Well Hawks and Pens fans couldn't care less about the Bruins/Sabres/Leafs argument either. Vesey won't benefit those teams nearly as much as he can benefit a true Cup contender with his ELC.

 

[Liferleafer]

Except it's not, because Vesey's agent actually came out and said Chicago is on his "short list." And the Blackhawks coach and GM have been spotted attending Vesey's games in Foxborough this summer.

On the other hand, there has been no credible source saying Pittsburgh is on his "list." I suppose Pittsburgh might BE on the list, but there has been no confirmation of that thus far.

The point being, though, that any talk of Vesey to Chicago is more than just mere speculation. I still feel like he ends up in Boston in the end, but people are not just discussing Chicago for no reason.

Any info on the entire short list?

 

[Dogewow]

Any info on the entire short list?

Right now Buffalo, Boston and Chicago are the only confirmed teams on the list. Everything else is just speculation.

 

[PB37]

I don't think Boston is a finalist. He'll want to play away from home, despite what sources say.

He's already confirmed that Boston is on the short list and will be heavily considered.

 

[PB37]

They won't be a "losing team" much longer.

2014-15 Season - 54 pts
2015-16 Post-All Star - 92 pts (prorated)

I've seen Toronto fans use this prorated crap for years.

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

its your opinion on "how they've handled the offseason". they add Campbell which makes the D MUCH better since they can move TVR where he truly belongs. add Kempny which will hopefully really lock down that last pair. lose Teuvo and Shaw (you know, those role players that the Hawks lose every year) and what? now they are further from a Cup contender? is their roster even finalized at this point??

and yes, when someone or something proves in the recent past they can succeed repetitively, that carries weight whether you like it or not.

I seem to recall you guys losing Ladd, Fleischmann and Weise too.

I never said anywhere that Chicago is less of a contender than they were last year. They have solidified their defense, and have young studs who can fill in their depth. And even if I don't believe that Chicago is less of a contender, I still believe that Pittsburgh is more of a contender.

I don't really see past success as a huge factor. In that case how come that past success didn't kick in against St. Louis?

Except it's not, because Vesey's agent actually came out and said Chicago is on his "short list." And the Blackhawks coach and GM have been spotted attending Vesey's games in Foxborough this summer.

On the other hand, there has been no credible source saying Pittsburgh is on his "list." I suppose Pittsburgh might BE on the list, but there has been no confirmation of that thus far.

The point being, though, that any talk of Vesey to Chicago is more than just mere speculation. I still feel like he ends up in Boston in the end, but people are not just discussing Chicago for no reason.

Okay, I got a bit ahead of myself with the credible sources. Although his list is probsbly not complete and I keep hearing connections.

Speaking of sources, mynhltraderumors.com stated that Matthew Coller put the Rangers and the Leafs on Vesey's shortlist, together with Buffalo, Boston and the Hawks, and pointing out their selling points and drawbacks in this article:

http://espn.go.com/nhl/insider/stor...n-harvard-star-jimmy-vesey-first-contract-nhl

So, does anybody have ESPN insider for the full article?

 

[Gsus]

If goaltending holds up they'll be in the playoffs. Yes there's still teams to pass but Philly Detroit and Boston haven't improved too much this offseason.

Philly has done nothing but improved this offseason. And it will carry to the start of the season.

Why:
Bottom6 got stronger with the additions of Weise and Gordon. At the same time 1-2 prospects are going to start in the Flyers jersey. One of them is called Ivan Provorov who could very well already be TOP4 Dman in Flyers to start the season. I believe that Konecny will be there too and I project him to be in the TOP6 at some point this season. Giroux and Ghost had their hip surgeries and especially for Giroux this is big since he battled thru the injury longer than many thought and it affected his numbers. Voracek was injured too and has lost 10 pounds this summer and last time he did that, he had 81 point season. Going to Hakstol's second year as a coach, I think the difference between the Sabres and the Flyers will be the same this year than it was last year. Flyers will be better next year than they were last year.

For me this is the season were the Flyers start to climb with the best of our prospects.