Post-Game Talk: Bruins def. Canucks - 3-2 (Pearson, Garland)
- Thread starter Mr. Canucklehead
- Start date
You have no ideea what you are talking about. Myers-OEL play the heavy minutes. Take a look at ice time distribuiton and O-zone starts. His ice time is inflated due to playing a lot of PP minutes. PP are not heavy minutes.
take a look here: 2021-22 Vancouver Canucks Roster and Statistics | Hockey-Reference.com
He has: 68% O-zone starts and 32% D-zone
Now compare him with Myers and OEL. He plays butter soft minutes. He has the lowest d-zone starts on the team along with Petey and for some strange reason Dowling. Brock and Miller are also both under 40% while Horvat gets 54% d-zone and only 46% o-zone starts.
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PK minutes are easy on this team, it rarely actually lasts a minute.
You are just trolling.
Playing with one player less is easy while playing with +1 is hard. You'd have to wonder why they call penalties if is easy to PK. By your logic PK is rewarding and PP is punishing.
canuckking1
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What are you taking about? Hughes plays the most minutes on the team 5v5 and that's with him missing a game. He's literally played 22 more minutes than OEL in one less game played 5v5. You should try fact checking first
Player Season Totals - Natural Stat Trick
We are talking about heavy minutes here. I don't know what you are talking about. Most minutes= heavy minutes? I'm talking about hard mathchups, O-zone Vs D-zone starts and PK. I think i was clear enough.
Maybe you should scrool right and see what kind of minutes he is getting compared to Myers and OEL Don;t just stop at Total ICE time.
Flames should give Tanev PP and Ozone starts galore, and expect 65 points, cuz it's easy minutes. Everything is relative.
canuckking1
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That's what you said ^^.
Hughes plays the most minutes at ES on the team by a wide margin he's far from sheltered
In the Bruins game. Are you blind or what. I said take tonights game. I did not say overall. I was arguing with the guy about PK in tonights game and i went on explaining to him why Hughes is not used on PK and how he is sheltered.
You just quoted a part of what i said: "Take a look at today's game: Hughes TOI: 21:23 with 5:44 PP time and 0 PK time. Both OEL and Myers played more minutes more at even strength plus PK time. His ES minuntes are 3rd on the team". Look at tonights game and see the ice time at ES.
Why are you lying about what i said?
Vancouver Canucks - Boston Bruins - November 28th, 2021
canuckking1
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Why are you using a one game sample to make your point as to why he's sheltered? By ice time at ES he really isn't.
How is he not sheltered when he avoids hard matchups like plague and has 68% O-zone starts? Why is he not starting with OEL in all zones VS the best players from the other teams? He plays no PK. He gets the juicy minutes on PP and O-zone.
Do you think Travis is a moron for using him like this? I think he uses him as he should to maximize his talent while hidding his deficiencies.
I'm just tired of the Hughes number#1-2 defender bulljive. He is not. At this moment his a little better Tyson Barrie with better playmaking and less goal scoring.
canuckking1
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Avoid like the plague is a huge exaggeration. He plays in offensive situation because he drives the teams offence not hard to figure that out. He plays the most minutes at 5v5 and his QOC is still high.
Ok man. Have it your way. He is getting the heavy minutes like a true first pair defender while being a stud at ES,PP,and PK.
Arguing with you Jimbo fans is getting me tired like Juolevi was after the bag skate. You guys run from facts like plague.
Your argument for Hughes should get some PK time to improve as a player, is.. that he doesn't get PK time...
On a team with the worst PK in history, and a coach that's about to be fired..
I agree with you if you want us to have an < 50% PK. As of today we are at 62,3%.
Its odd to say that a defensive player being put in defensive situations, is harder than an offensive player being put in an expectation to score.
Especially when the former is brutal, and Huggy is better at everything than the rest.
Especially when the former is brutal, and Huggy is better at everything than the rest.
ARe you telling me that it;s easier for a defender on the PK than on PP? I guess chasing guys around, winning board battles and blocking bombs on PK is easier than you doing the bombing and passing on the PP.
What i found out today is that PP is hard while PK it's easy. Are you telling me that you played hockey and you found PK easy and PP hard?
PS: You should have said: defensive player put in defesive situations where he is expected to shut players down. At least be honest and don't type just half a truth. You could also say that PK is less reliant on talent than PP. This is true but it does not make it easier.
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There is little physicality on the PK. D-men are generally ignoring the net front presence by fronting them. You can’t touch them without getting a penalty. Especially now with cross checking being called so tight. That is no longer a reason not to use a smaller d-man. (It’s the same reason you don’t need a useless guy like Chiasson on the PP because he can handle the punishment and is big…there is no punishment).
Hughes does have a good stick, good hand eye, reactions and mobility…all things they lack on the PK down low. He’s not going to make it worse. The only way they are killing penalties right now is when the opposition essentially kills it themselves with bad plays. Small d-men do kill penalties in this league now.
And there is nothing wrong with trying it giving they have a historically bad PK.
Hughes does have a good stick, good hand eye, reactions and mobility…all things they lack on the PK down low. He’s not going to make it worse. The only way they are killing penalties right now is when the opposition essentially kills it themselves with bad plays. Small d-men do kill penalties in this league now.
And there is nothing wrong with trying it giving they have a historically bad PK.
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Hughes is given more offensive zone starts, that is true. For forwards, zone starts are a good indication for whether they are sheltered or not, but it's not always the case for defensemen. Cale Makar has a higher offensive zone starts percentage than Hughes, but penalty kills...how does that happen then? Zone starts often tells you more about the team trying to maximize offensive output from an offensive player than it is about trying to minimize defensive play. Are there situations when zone starts track the way you are suggesting, yes, but that's looking at it as an end all stat, which no stat is. Theres nuance.
I'll ask one question that demonstrates the problem with this zone starts = everything argument. How often do the Canucks keep it in the offensive zone for the entire shift when starting there? If they dont it seems to me a player who starts 65% offensive 5on5 can play half the game or more making defensive plays. Quality of competition matters too btw.
If Hughes was playing like last year on defense then sure I'd also argue they are sheltering him, but he isnt. He has positive possession metrics across the board and has been much better. He should be tried on the PK. Not necessarily as a first option but for at least some part of the PK.
I'll ask one question that demonstrates the problem with this zone starts = everything argument. How often do the Canucks keep it in the offensive zone for the entire shift when starting there? If they dont it seems to me a player who starts 65% offensive 5on5 can play half the game or more making defensive plays. Quality of competition matters too btw.
If Hughes was playing like last year on defense then sure I'd also argue they are sheltering him, but he isnt. He has positive possession metrics across the board and has been much better. He should be tried on the PK. Not necessarily as a first option but for at least some part of the PK.
I'd rather he keeps doing what he is doing and stay away from the PK. You think Shaw or Green would not use him if he was decent on PK? You think they don't practice these things? Keep in mind that coaches know more than we do about players. Travis may be a bad coach but i doubt he would not play Hughes on PK if he had a chance to improve it.
They don’t know if he’s good on the PK because they’ve never used him. Same with any other player they have never tried which is every single player not pencilled in as PKers during camp. They’ve really not tried anyone else. Certainly on the blueline you know for a fact Poolman, Burroughs, and Myers can’t kill penalties. There’s a reason OEL wasn’t a first unit PKer in Arizona as well. Green is an old school dinosaur coach who pigeon holes his players into certain roles and he’ll be damned if he changes his mind. He did just that with Schmidt last year…made a decision on how he will play rather than understand how he should be played. It’s no wonder all players struggle to develop under this regime (and it goes back to his AHL coaching days).
Given the complete lack of success on the PK you’d think they’d try something. But as with everything else with this team it’s we’ve tried nothing and we are all out of ideas. The best thing this team can do right now is ride Hughes even harder as he’s the only D-man that has anything resembling a complete two-way game. If that means bumping him up to 28 minutes a night right now then so be it. Kid can skate for days.
What I can tell you is this…as soon as the Bruins received the PPs in the third we knew they would score. Certainly on the second one when Burroughs came over the boards we knew. That’s why it’s an issue. It is over 6% less effective than the 31st place team. Its over 15% less effective than the 7th WORST team in the league on the PK. That’s staggeringly bad and yet they try nothing new, At least make us say “well that’s interesting. Not sure it’s going to work but let’s see what happens”.
Agreed on the Hughes should PK idea. He should learn at some point and when better than when your team is sitting at 60% PK and the season is already down the tubes, oh and the alternative is two #7/AHL d-men instead.
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At this point I don’t care if we don’t win another game, so long as major change is the result.
I don’t even care if we lose to the Leafs, Oilers or Flames… that’s how bad it’s gotten.
I don’t even care if we lose to the Leafs, Oilers or Flames… that’s how bad it’s gotten.
theguardianII
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