Brooklyn/Belmont Arena Discussion 2018-19

[Brunomics]

I'm going to say this as nicely as possible. f*** everyone that opposes this. I'm going to be selfish and honestly say I don't give a flying f*** who gets butt hurt from the new arena. We have all suffered for the past 25 years or so with getting jerked around with Kate Murray and Wang plus all the other bs we dealt with. And now there are morons like Sexton that want to rain on the parade? He can go f*** himself.

I know there is nothing stopping this. But people like him deserve a nice punch right in the jaw.

 

[saintunspecified]

Funny that these supposed "organic protests" always seem to involve the same cast of characters. Most people either are in favor of it or really don't care, and there's 10 people who are using it to try to advance their agenda and/or career and drag along friends and relatives to carry signs. And of course media outlets are happy to give them space to make it seem like there's real opposition.

I'm guessing you've never organized, because that's how organizing generally works. Spontaneous protesting generally only occurs after some event that's really shocking (e.g. the travel ban protests at the airports). By all means, criticize their message and their numbers, which speak for themselves. But your "criticism", such as it is, would apply to the vast majority of protests.

At any rate, the vast majority of people don't get excited about some project that is supposed to maybe happen in a few years.

 

[saintunspecified]

I know there is nothing stopping this. But people like him deserve a nice punch right in the jaw.

They're protesting an arena. They're not Nazis ffs. That's dumb.

 

[Brunomics]

They're protesting an arena. They're not Nazis ffs. That's dumb.

My point is that we Islander fans deserve something good for once and honestly screw whoever is against it. Never said Nazi's. Let's not go to extremes with the labeling.

We all are long time suffering and deserve something great. Until I see this thing starting to be built they are the enemy.

 

[saintunspecified]

My point is that we Islander fans deserve something good for once and honestly screw whoever is against it. Never said Nazi's. Let's not go to extremes with the labeling.

Lol. Extreme is saying someone deserves to be punched for exercising their right to free expression whether you like it or not.

 

[Brunomics]

Lol. Extreme is saying someone deserves to be punched for exercising their right to free expression whether you like it or not.

Agreed. I'm just extremely frustrated with the the push back from try hard morons like Sexton so I may have laid it on a little thick.

 

[YearlyLottery]

Sexton is a loser either way. He will eventually lose this battle as well. I cannot wait to see what he has to say after the shovels are in the ground.

 

[denis5]

Agreed. I'm just extremely frustrated with the the push back from try hard morons like Sexton so I may have laid it on a little thick.

You got to realize that these guys are literally at the howling at the moon phase of things. If you see their facebook page and twitter feeds, they are 1) making stuff up, 2) desperately clinging to any help they can find as they have utterly failed at drumming up any real opposition from the majority of their neighbors. Williams is full of bluster, but boasting of turning out 100 on Sunday (not that that would have been all the impressive considering the size of their communities) but only turning out a fraction of that is a really, really bad look and a bad blunder. They are reduced to talking up support from an astroturfed group, funded by dark money from local retailers and trying to get support from out of the mainstream politicians since no one else -- aside from Carrie Solanges -- has their back. BTW, maybe he's camera shy (ha!), but their gadfly lawyer Siegel was nowhere to be seen in the photos or in the quotes. Perhaps they've run out of money to pay him?

 

[Richie Daggers Crime]

My point is that we Islander fans deserve something good for once and honestly screw whoever is against it. Never said Nazi's. Let's not go to extremes with the labeling.

We all are long time suffering and deserve something great. Until I see this thing starting to be built they are the enemy.

You'd probably have a better, clearer outlook on the situation if you took the time to be a little objective about it rather than taking the hysterical route and devolving into tribal us vs. them mode.

 

[Metnut]

Some blame definitely belongs to the newspapers here for even covering this farce of a "demonstration." There were "dozens" of protesters? How the hell is that worthy of a full feature in a major regional newspaper? It seems like there's some sort of relationship between Sexton and the reporter where he gets coverage every time one of these micro-protests happens. Given Sexton's known propensity for engaging in fraud, it's worth asking whether there's any money being paid here for coverage.

Think about how small a turnout "dozens" are. We could put together an HF Islander tailgate at the Belmont parking lot to support the arena, each bring some friends, and we'd have 2-3X the amount of people that this fraud of a demonstration had! Would the newspaper cover it? I doubt it, because there wouldn't be the connection that the reporter/newspaper has with Sexton.

 

[Brunomics]

You'd probably have a better, clearer outlook on the situation if you took the time to be a little objective about it rather than taking the hysterical route and devolving into tribal us vs. them mode.

Oh I know all the factors but there comes a point that you just have to look at the whole situation and say screw em.

 

[Doshell Propivo]

Some blame definitely belongs to the newspapers here for even covering this farce of a "demonstration." There were "dozens" of protesters? How the hell is that worthy of a full feature in a major regional newspaper? It seems like there's some sort of relationship between Sexton and the reporter where he gets coverage every time one of these micro-protests happens. Given Sexton's known propensity for engaging in fraud, it's worth asking whether there's any money being paid here for coverage.

Think about how small a turnout "dozens" are. We could put together an HF Islander tailgate at the Belmont parking lot to support the arena, each bring some friends, and we'd have 2-3X the amount of people that this fraud of a demonstration had! Would the newspaper cover it? I doubt it, because there wouldn't be the connection that the reporter/newspaper has with Sexton.

I think we should do a billboard instead.

 

[doublechili]

I'm guessing you've never organized, because that's how organizing generally works. Spontaneous protesting generally only occurs after some event that's really shocking (e.g. the travel ban protests at the airports). By all means, criticize their message and their numbers, which speak for themselves. But your "criticism", such as it is, would apply to the vast majority of protests.

At any rate, the vast majority of people don't get excited about some project that is supposed to maybe happen in a few years.

I didn't mean to imply that "organic protest" is the same thing as spontaneous protest. A protest can be non-spontaneous yet organic, IMO. What I was getting at is that there doesn't seem to be a groundswell of opposition such that the protests are well-attended events reflecting numerous groups protesting. In that case, the several protests would be organic. Instead, we see periodic reports of protests, yet each one seems to involve the same organizers (eg., Williams, Sexton) and not a lot of attendees. It seems to be designed to create the impression of more opposition than there really is. That might be a common thing these days, but it doesn't legitimize the protest or confirm that the impression they're trying to create equals reality.

 

[MJF]

You got to realize that these guys are literally at the howling at the moon phase of things. If you see their facebook page and twitter feeds, they are 1) making stuff up, 2) desperately clinging to any help they can find as they have utterly failed at drumming up any real opposition from the majority of their neighbors. Williams is full of bluster, but boasting of turning out 100 on Sunday (not that that would have been all the impressive considering the size of their communities) but only turning out a fraction of that is a really, really bad look and a bad blunder. They are reduced to talking up support from an astroturfed group, funded by dark money from local retailers and trying to get support from out of the mainstream politicians since no one else -- aside from Carrie Solanges -- has their back. BTW, maybe he's camera shy (ha!), but their gadfly lawyer Siegel was nowhere to be seen in the photos or in the quotes. Perhaps they've run out of money to pay him?

It’s funny you mention local retailers being behind dark money towards the opposition. At a few of the community meetings a couple of local business owners pointed out that the NHL and the Islanders seek out local businesses to work with. From stationery and printing services to plumbing to the embroiderer for the team. Merchants are aware that this project could be a real shot in the arm for their businesses.

 

[Richie Daggers Crime]

Oh I know all the factors but there comes a point that you just have to look at the whole situation and say screw em.

I understand. I'm just observing that discourse in general has been devolving into this "I disagree, so you're my enemy and I must exterminate you" with alarming frequency over the last few years. I don't consider myself a hysterical or dramatic person, but I'm genuinely concerned about how easily people fall into this trap these days.

 

[saintunspecified]

It seems to be designed to create the impression of more opposition than there really is. That might be a common thing these days, but it doesn't legitimize the protest or confirm that the impression they're trying to create equals reality.

"Protesters walk single-file to hide their numbers."

Or is it the opposite. Sorry. The idea that people can be deceptive standing around about the number of people standing around is pretty amusing.

Protest is a point of view. Even if one grants (I've seen no evidence) that these protesters are funded by businesses, SCOTUS has decided that corporate interests spending money is political speech. Maybe take it up with them?

I get the pro-Islander POV, but does anyone see the irony here? Claiming that that there's dirty money of corporate interests when they're going up against Scott Malkin, a literal billionaire? I mean sure maybe, and so what?

 

[Brunomics]

I understand. I'm just observing that discourse in general has been devolving into this "I disagree, so you're my enemy and I must exterminate you" with alarming frequency over the last few years. I don't consider myself a hysterical or dramatic person, but I'm genuinely concerned about how easily people fall into this trap these days.

Not to fall into the political atmosphere but I feel we've reached that point because what can be gained being cordial and a "nice" guy isn't worth it anymore because no one wants to compromise and work together.

Both sides need to agree to that level of respect but that left the building 20+ years ago to what the situation is now today.

 

[saintunspecified]

Not to fall into the political atmosphere but I feel we've reached that point because what can be gained being cordial and a "nice" guy isn't worth it anymore because no one wants to compromise and work together.

It's a sports arena though.

 

[doublechili]

"Protesters walk single-file to hide their numbers."

Or is it the opposite. Sorry. The idea that people can be deceptive standing around about the number of people standing around is pretty amusing.

I never said they were trying to be deceptive about their numbers and wasn't stressing that as my point (you're moving the goalposts). The point is that it seems to be the same few people behind each of the protests. Each time there's a protest it gets new coverage. Someone not paying close attention thinks there's a lot of opposition. Yet it's the same organizers walking around with a group of like 8 people. Probably friends and family of Tammie and Matt. You would think a legit news outlet would kind of realize that after 4 or 5 "protests". Yet they continue to cover these manufactured events as if they're real news. Why is that?

 

[saintunspecified]

The point is that it seems to be the same few people behind each of the protests. Each time there's a protest it gets new coverage. Someone not paying close attention thinks there's a lot of opposition. Yet it's the same organizers walking around with a group of like 8 people. Probably friends and family of Tammie and Matt. You would think a legit news outlet would kind of realize that after 4 or 5 "protests". Yet they continue to cover these manufactured events as if they're real news. Why is that?

Ah. First you said the protests were designed to be deceptive, and now you're saying the media coverage doesn't meet your standards. Are you suggesting that protesters are conspiring with Newsday?

Frankly, my read of the article makes the protesters seem pretty damn lame. Like the arena is going to hurt a 12 year old middle school student in Floral Park? Lol. Thought the reporter did a decent job, to be honest.

 

[denis5]

It’s funny you mention local retailers being behind dark money towards the opposition. At a few of the community meetings a couple of local business owners pointed out that the NHL and the Islanders seek out local businesses to work with. From stationery and printing services to plumbing to the embroiderer for the team. Merchants are aware that this project could be a real shot in the arm for their businesses.

It's not them. It's the big mall operators (think Simon) that are afraid that the project will take business away from them. That's why the astroturfed group is called Elmont Against the Mega Mall -- they really don't care one way or another about the arena. The whole things is a creation of a PR and lobbying company that Newsday says has a long track record of working with Simon, and had a big hand in killing a mall project in Syosett that the company opposed and later took over when the original developer gave up. Their tactics worked there because the project needed local approvals to get built. Fortunately (for us) here that's not an issue.

 

[Costigan77]

He lived in Queens. Can’t wait to move his team back there. That was the plan all along.

Its win win. He is putting them at belmont, but re drawing county lines

 

[Richie Daggers Crime]

Not to fall into the political atmosphere but I feel we've reached that point because what can be gained being cordial and a "nice" guy isn't worth it anymore because no one wants to compromise and work together.

Both sides need to agree to that level of respect but that left the building 20+ years ago to what the situation is now today.

This is what I was saying in terms of the discourse devolving.

 

[doublechili]

Ah. First you said the protests were designed to be deceptive, and now you're saying the media coverage doesn't meet your standards. Are you suggesting that protesters are conspiring with Newsday?

I've been saying the same thing all along. So I'm not sure what you are getting at by implying that I'm changing my tune. This was what I posted originally (and what I've repeated ever since):

"Funny that these supposed "organic protests" always seem to involve the same cast of characters. Most people either are in favor of it or really don't care, and there's 10 people who are using it to try to advance their agenda and/or career and drag along friends and relatives to carry signs. And of course media outlets are happy to give them space to make it seem like there's real opposition. "

You're adding different interpretations of what I'm saying as we go, but I really can't be much more consistent than I've been, short of cutting and pasting the same thing each time.

 

[saintunspecified]

You're adding different interpretations of what I'm saying as we go, but I really can't be much more consistent than I've been, short of cutting and pasting the same thing each time.

You would think a legit news outlet would kind of realize that after 4 or 5 "protests". Yet they continue to cover these manufactured events as if they're real news. Why is that?

Keep on "just asking questions".