Post-Game Talk: BROKE! Pens lose 4-1 to juggernaut Devils

[vodeni]

I don't know why is it such a hard concept to understand that there is a possibilty in sport that best players in sport may look average and underachieve when their coach sucks. Basketball, soccer, seen that million times....

 

[SHOOTANDSCORE]

Easy to say Cooke but the truth is if he stays in good shape the next few years I'd be happy to have Dups on the 3rd line (where in relative terms he'd be a very good 3rd liner most nights). So I guess the answer is "Neither. Fire Bylsma and replace him with a coach who knows where to play Dupuis and get the most out of him / and get the most out of our bottom 6."

Yep. Duper Sutter is 2/3 of an excellent 3rd line.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

The Pens are having a really hard time transitioning out of the tweaked defensive scheme. I know everyone wants a change but I'm not sure if Martin is the right guy. I like him but he might be a bad fit for this team... I actually really liked Teddy Nolan.

I guess it leads back into the transition game but puck support up ice is really bad. Players are hitting the blue line all alone and throwing lame 30' wristers on net or driving into 3 players. Even Sid and Malkin...

Just forget the PP. Whats Joey Mullen doing these days?

I know Martin is the wrong guy, so there really isn't anything more to say about him.

I believe Joey Mullen is still in the Flyers organization, but I could be wrong. Not sure in what capacity, though.

Clean up plan:

1: Fire coach. Don't know who should be the replacement. At this point I almost don't care.
2: Trade popular guys in the room to make sure the message is heard. Start with Dupuis and Niskanen. Cut D'Agostino. Every single one of them are totally redundant in the roles they are currently in, so it doesn't hurt us in the least.
3: Get Malkin's line a defensively solid third wheel who wrecks havoc on the boards. It should have been an obvious thing to do over any point these last two years. Nothing Shero could do other than canning Bylsma would be more transformative for the team 5 on 5.

Good stuff. No. 1 is the no-brainer that we all know won't happen, which pretty much makes everything else a gigantic moot point.

For the record, I've thrown some names around before that would make solid coaching candidates: Rick Tocchet, Ulf Samuelsson, Ron Francis. A return to glory days? Yes, but they also all have coaching experience in the NHL. Francis is probably a more likely candidate to replace Shero one day, but he's one man I'd trust behind our bench. If we're looking for a really short-term fix, we could do a LOT worse than Peter Laviolette.

No. 2 would be awesome, but highly unlikely as long as Shero is the GM. Guys like Dupuis, Adams, Glass, Niskanen should have been gone (or never here in Glass's case) a long time ago. Trading a popular player to send a message is a great idea. It'll never happen.

No. 3. We already have that player for Malkin's line...either Beau Bennett or Chris Kunitz. They both can do the job perfectly. We have 3 top-nine left-wingers currently, 2 work perfectly in that role with Malkin and Neal, one doesn't. Guess which one Bylsma chooses to use? Yep.

 

[IcedCapp]

"We should sit someone. If not Malkin, then Dupuis?"


STOP SAYING MOVE KUNITZ AND PUT BENNETT THERE. KUNITZ ISN'T THE ISSUE ON THE FIRST LINE. YOU'RE NOT FIXING IT IF YOU LEAVE BENNETT THERE. IF YOU THINK BENNETT - CROSBY - DUPUIS WILL BE GOOD, GO GET A PHYSICAL, YOU MAY BE DEAD


edit: sorry, I'm arguing with the radio

 

[Captain Hook]

There's just something missing with this team. I don't think it's one thing either. I don't put it all on coaching. I think there's some personnel issues that are just as big.

It doesn't help that Sid, Dupuis, Malkin, Bennett and many others are slumping. Neal and Malkin have not looked anywhere near the same since Kunitz was taken off their line a couple seasons ago. I think this team needs a big shakeup. It probably should have happened in the off-season looking back at it. I can understand that they thought they had a great regular season and wanted to keep a lot of the components together but the supporting cast probably should have been overhauled in the summer.

 

[Shockmaster]

Well they did have Rads and Foppa there but they're just a mess. I'll never understand drafting defense, defense, defense...

I've tried to make sense of it by saying that its such a taught position that it takes some of the question marks out of drafting or that if a skilled player doesn't work out there isn't much room for him on a pro team. In the end I would love to be talking about Tatar or Silfverberg right now over such a glut of defensive prospects.

Oh man, imagine if the Penguins didn't have Crosby and Malkin. The Penguins would be Predators East.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

Yes, but the last time there was an alignment of the team spinning its wheels AND Sid and Geno sucking during the regular season, Therrien was fired. It's my only hope at this point, because the alternative explanation is that Shero truly is 'all in' with Bylsma.

I think if anything Mario or another owner will snap in the end. It's just a matter of when, and the sooner the better.

 

[vodeni]

I was disapointed when they let Cooke go. He has a great compete level and probably our best player in the Boston series. I have no problem with Dupuis if he is on the 3rd line, where he belongs!!! Bylsma seems to be the only person that doesn't realise this.

yes he was

 

[Uemoda]

if we were fans of a bad team, we would have lower expectations and be a lot less bothered by bad play.

See: The X-Generation Pens....As a fan, I wasn't disappointed with them. They were supposed to lose.

Seriously, we have an exceptionally talented hockey ream that consistently under-performs. And people keep making excuses for them.


This game was yet another nightmare to watch. It's actually nauseating. No poise, no plan, no semblance of a system. The talented players trying to do it all themselves, and the untalented ones looking like lost puppies. It's the same old story, and it aint going to change until Bylsma (everyone's BFF) is gone.


I'll say this now. The fact that we had to fire Michel Therrien was indicative of the mindset of the locker room. This is a country club, and I'm fed up with it. We need someone who can actually make these losers play as an organized team again. And Dan ****** Bylsma isn't that guy. And Shero isn't going to be the one to make the change.


At this point, I seriously hope, and without any ill-will, that Mario cans them both. We need significant change, and we need it now. It's irritating that this debacle has gone on for so long already.

 

[KIRK]

Clean up plan:

1: Fire coach. Don't know who should be the replacement. At this point I almost don't care.
2: Trade popular guys in the room to make sure the message is heard. Start with Dupuis and Niskanen. Cut D'Agostino. Every single one of them are totally redundant in the roles they are currently in, so it doesn't hurt us in the least.
3: Get Malkin's line a defensively solid third wheel who wrecks havoc on the boards. It should have been an obvious thing to do over any point these last two years. Nothing Shero could do other than canning Bylsma would be more transformative for the team 5 on 5.
]
Who am I kidding?
Good thing is that I will be so busy the next couple of weeks, that I really shouldn't prioritize watching hockey in morning during the week. Watching this team gives me a headache pretty much irrespective of the results.
And yes, Malkin, Letang and Sid suck right now compared to how they ought to be able to play regardless of the coach. But the absolute incompetence behind our bench is the biggest problem we have, and I don't think any fundamental problems with this team will be solved before he is gone.

The only changes you see on this team is that Megna gets booted for D'Agostino, Bort sits for Engelland, and when Sill gets a token cup of coffee, it is instead of Vitale. Changes that are changing absolutely nothing, have no impact on the regulars and ignores performance completely. **** him. I am done.

Item 4 damn well better be Bennett or an acquisition for Sid's RW, but you're right on the money with steps 1-3.

And, yes, like you, I pretty much agree that 'who' replaces Bylsma and whether we 'win' the trade for the locker room guys moved matters a lot less than just trying things at this point.

 

[chethejet]

Mario seems to be more concerned about Pierre's bar bill in the Pens box. Not sure how much of a slide it will take to recognize this team in not close to a cup contender. No cap room, players sitting on guaranteed contracts for years is a recipe for under performance. Malkin is not going to take any chances before the Olympics. Who is going to make him play harder? Neal is a joke now. Crosby fed up. The beat goes on.

 

[SaturdayNightSlegr]

At least half the blame has to go to 87 and 71. They had a handful of grade-A chances and either were stopped cold (87) or passed to a covered winger (71). Say what you want about Jagr, but he didn't miss when his chance came.
...
That said, in my fantasy world Zubrus is on Malkin's line with Kulemin....

 

[billybudd]

There's probably no such thing as "THE PROBLEM." There's a bunch of problems. No magic bullet.

The entire bottom 6 is inadequate apart from Bennett (who can't get a shot off under anything approaching traffic), 2 of the wings on the first two pairs aren't good enough and another is barely adequate. That's five players who can't play, another three who are miscast and another who isn't about to beat the goaltender. Nine problems of varying degrees of seriousness in the top 12.

On top of that, the coach doesn't have control of the stars or believe in line matching. In 2013, to find a coach that doesn't line match is crazy. Hell, it would have been difficult to find one in 1983.

All three of the stars are misfiring...

There's no easy answer for this. No organizing around it.

No "this set of line combinations would be better." Square pegs don't fit in round holes, no matter which square peg you try in which round hole.

Coming schedule is not reassuring. We could very well go 1-9.

 

[Uemoda]

There's just something missing with this team. I don't think it's one thing either. I don't put it all on coaching. I think there's some personnel issues that are just as big.

It doesn't help that Sid, Dupuis, Malkin, Bennett and many others are slumping. Neal and Malkin have not looked anywhere near the same since Kunitz was taken off their line a couple seasons ago. I think this team needs a big shakeup. It probably should have happened in the off-season looking back at it. I can understand that they thought they had a great regular season and wanted to keep a lot of the components together but the supporting cast probably should have been overhauled in the summer.

It definitely needed to.

Behind extending (!) Bylsma, re-signing Dupuis was the dumbest thing Shero has done. And it will haunt us for a while yet.

 

[KIRK]

"You're not counting on your 4th line to score goals, but they've been REALLY good this season"

- Pens radio!

Make it stop . . .

 

[stardog]

+ I feel like we've really gotten closer during that joke.
+ I ate a good cookie.
+ They earned a result, yay for earning things.

- The team.
-- Crosby and Malkin. One of you throw a hissy fit.
--- Niskanen, 2.3M for that in case of injuries.
---- Orpik, when is he good?
----------- Dupuis, go the **** away.
--------------------- KCD still exists, ****.
----------------------------------------------------------- Bylsma, **** off you ****ing moron, eat **** and look smug. It's you, you're the biggest problem, you tool.

Less bads:
Bennett, not that he got rewarded
Maatta looked better
Letang was good until he went brain dead
Martin was solid
Neal was solid

Agree with everything expect a few small tweaks. Malkin and Crosby need a few more of your minuses.
Secondly, I thought Paul Martin was awesome in the first until New Jersey scored. Then he tanked like most of the team. He looked real bad on the second goal. He did things tonight that he hasn't done since his "bad" year. He fell apart with the team.

This game looked like the Rangers game. It was obvious that the team quit and simply wasn't into it. I got hammered for suggesting that the team is tuning Bylsma out after the Rangers game but it is obvious that he has no real control or leadership over this group.
Maybe there is some 90210 drama going on in the locker room and Juice and Neal are in a love triangle with one of the ice girls. People are taking sides. Dupuis kids are siding with Juice because he looks like the crazy uncle who refuses to grow up and always gets drunk and loud at Christmas before passing out on the couch and pissing himself. Oh, and maybe he dates a stripper named Starla or Diamond JewelZ or something.

Finally, a big ++++ to Jussi. Saw him without his hat on and he does actually look like that aging SoCal surfer hippie who never got a real job because he didn't want the responsibility. Life's a beach dude. Surf it up.

 

[Uemoda]

There's probably no such thing as "THE PROBLEM." There's a bunch of problems. No magic bullet.

The entire bottom 6 is inadequate apart from Bennett (who can't get a shot off under anything approaching traffic), 2 of the wings on the first two pairs aren't good enough and another is barely adequate. That's five players who can't play, another three who are miscast and another who isn't about to beat the goaltender.

On top of that, the coach doesn't have control of the stars or believe in line matching. In 2013, to find a coach that doesn't line match is crazy. Hell, it would have been difficult to find one in 1983.

All three of the stars are misfiring...

There's no easy answer for this. No organizing around it.

No "this set of line combinations would be better." Square pegs don't fit in round holes, no matter which square peg you try in which round hole.

Coming schedule is not reassuring. We could very well go 1-9.

Good.

Maybe when we're out of a playoff spot in the worst division in the NHL, someone will actually pay attention. Because apparently sucking horribly isn't enough to get any actual changes around here.

 

[billybudd]

Good.

Maybe when we're out of a playoff spot in the worst division in the NHL, someone will actually pay attention. Because apparently sucking horribly isn't enough to get any actual changes around here.

Could we if we wanted though? Don't know how many contracts can be moved in season apart from the deadline. Ray Shero made a real mess of things this summer.

 

[KIRK]

I don't know why is it such a hard concept to understand that there is a possibilty in sport that best players in sport may look average and underachieve when their coach sucks. Basketball, soccer, seen that million times....

And, it happens with all of them the same way. They start trying to do too much because 'being themselves' no longer cuts it, which is turn puts them into a spin towards mediocrity, which is turn reinforces the temptation to try to do it all, which in turn makes things worse.

That's why you juggle lines in hockey. Sometimes, there's no rational explanation for why a spin starts, but you sure as **** have an obligation as a coach to do everything in your power to stop it.

 

[Uemoda]

Could we if we wanted though? Don't know how many contracts can be moved in season apart from the deadline. Ray Shero made a real mess of things this summer.

Part of the first step in an actual culture change should be canning Ray Shero for those moves.

And maybe a bad team like Florida or Buffalo would take a Dupuis type. And Niskanen and/or Orpik are certainly moveable.

Then we go from there.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Agree with everything expect a few small tweaks. Malkin and Crosby need a few more of your minuses.
Secondly, I thought Paul Martin was awesome in the first until New Jersey scored. Then he tanked like most of the team. He looked real bad on the second goal. He did things tonight that he hasn't done since his "bad" year. He fell apart with the team.

Yeah Paul Martin was awful tonight. Again, though, bigger fish to fry here.

 

[KIRK]

"We should sit someone. If not Malkin, then Dupuis?"


STOP SAYING MOVE KUNITZ AND PUT BENNETT THERE. KUNITZ ISN'T THE ISSUE ON THE FIRST LINE. YOU'RE NOT FIXING IT IF YOU LEAVE BENNETT THERE. IF YOU THINK BENNETT - CROSBY - DUPUIS WILL BE GOOD, GO GET A PHYSICAL, YOU MAY BE DEAD


edit: sorry, I'm arguing with the radio

The word the extended Pens PR department (i.e., the Pittsburgh media) does to keep a wary eye away from Bylsma now has surpassed Therrien levels.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Clean up plan:

1: Fire coach. Don't know who should be the replacement. At this point I almost don't care.
2: Trade popular guys in the room to make sure the message is heard. Start with Dupuis and Niskanen. Cut D'Agostino. Every single one of them are totally redundant in the roles they are currently in, so it doesn't hurt us in the least.
3: Get Malkin's line a defensively solid third wheel who wrecks havoc on the boards. It should have been an obvious thing to do over any point these last two years. Nothing Shero could do other than canning Bylsma would be more transformative for the team 5 on 5.

 

[Captain Hook]

It definitely needed to.

Behind extending (!) Bylsma, re-signing Dupuis was the dumbest thing Shero has done. And it will haunt us for a while yet.

I don't really have a problem with keeping the coach if you're going to make some personnel changes. It just seemed like after failing to reach the finals for so long with the current group that it was time for some sort of change to be made and yet they seemed so hell bent on keeping everything the same.

It's really the combination of Dupuis and Bylsma that becomes the problem. Dupuis can be one of the best 3rd liners in the game if used properly. The problem is Bylsma marries himself to certain guys being in certain roles. Dupuis = Top Line in DB's mind and Glass + Adams = his 4th line. A guy like Vitale will always take the blame and get healthy scratched when that line inevitably struggles when we all know Glass and Adams are what bogs that line down.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

Who will be the scapegoat for tonight?