Proposal: Brock Boeser for Miro Heiskanen or Cale Makar+

[tfu92]

Nucks fan,

Heiskanen>boeser
Boeser=>makar (only because makar hasnt played in the nhl yet)

Besides boeser we have no legit top6 wingers
COL has no reason to trade makar since they have 3 top line forwards already and potential 1 top and 1 top 10 pick this year ( most likely will be forwards)
Dallas would never trade heisk. No team trades a stud young D, with the only comparable jones-johansen and that was because of Nsh depth and a need for a #1c. Even then it looks like columbus got the better end of the stick.

 

[Canadian Canuck]

It was supposed to be an obvious question to highlight a point. All 3 players in Miro, Makar and EP are looking to be if not already are elite players that teams wouldn't move, and if it is absurd that EP has more value than BB, then it should be equally obvious how BB's value relates to the other 2.

Dal and Col had their options and they choose them and there is no reason for that decision to be any different now. Van is also just as happy.

Van's horrific ability to draft in years past isn't relevant or valid in this discussion in any way.

Fair enough. However, Colorado would have to be very stupid to turn down Elias Pettersson for an unproven Makar. Heiskanen you can make a case for.

 

[GoodbyeLuongo]

It was supposed to be an obvious question to highlight a point. All 3 players in Miro, Makar and EP are looking to be if not already are elite players that teams wouldn't move, and if it is absurd that EP has more value than BB, then it should be equally obvious how BB's value relates to the other 2.

Dal and Col had their options and they choose them and there is no reason for that decision to be any different now. Van is also just as happy.

Van's horrific ability to draft in years past isn't relevant or valid in this discussion in any way.

Hughes, Woo, Madden, Pettersson, Lind, DiPietro, Rathbone, Boeser, Jasek, Demko, Gaudette. Benning has done just fine. And before someone mentions Virtanen and Juolevi, we don't get Pettersson/Hughes if we take Nylander/Ehlers and Tkachuk.

 

[QJL]

Canucks add for Makar and add a mountain for Heiskanen.

 

[135ace]

Barkov is better then Hischier, and you could argue Barkov over Barzal

Anyways, I'm not going to get in an argument over value, but if Heiskanen reaches his potential I wouldnt trade him for many of the guys in the league. Look how dominant guys like Keith and Doughty were during there teams cup runs. Obviously those teams had great #1C's too. But having a guy who plays huge minutes to me is key in going far in the playoffs

Like you said there's no point in arguing, but the value young C's have is due to control and value of their production on an ELC. Barkov has less term and therefore loses a lot of value. Also, while I wouldn't bet on Hischier becoming better than Barkov, he certainly could.

 

[Lonewolfe2015]

Avs have two high-end picks that likely end up being forwards. Makar rounds them out nicely. Great player, but rolling the dice on Makar sounds better. Would you trade Hughes for Boeser if the situations were reversed?

 

[Meeqs]

Fair enough. However, Colorado would have to be very stupid to turn down Elias Pettersson for an unproven Makar. Heiskanen you can make a case for.

To me this is just a silly thing fans do. They use words like 'unproven' instead of 'he isn't in the NHL so I really haven't watched him'.

There is a debate towards why or why not a deal like that should or should not be made, but acting like Makar is any less talented because he choose to murder the NCAA for an extra year isn't one of them. Players skill levels don't change because general fan bases aren't informed about them.

 

[CherryToke]

Boeser is worth more than Makar at this point..

Makar is in his D+2 and people act like it's his D+1. He hasn't really done anything special YET..

 

[GoodbyeLuongo]

To me this is just a silly thing fans do. They use words like 'unproven' instead of 'he isn't in the NHL so I really haven't watched him'.

There is a debate towards why or why not a deal like that should or should not be made, but acting like Makar is any less talented because he choose to murder the NCAA for an extra year isn't one of them. Players skill levels don't change because general fan bases aren't informed about them.

No one said his skill level has changed. Makar is most likely going to be an NHL star. But Boeser already is an NHL star, that's the difference.

 

[Meeqs]

Hughes, Woo, Madden, Pettersson, Lind, DiPietro, Rathbone, Boeser, Jasek, Demko, Gaudette. Benning has done just fine. And before someone mentions Virtanen and Juolevi, we don't get Pettersson/Hughes if we take Nylander/Ehlers and Tkachuk.

2 things:

1) they have certainly done much better as of late, and its showing on the ice. However when you look past the very recent success, Van has been one of the worst drafting teams for a long period of time. I hope for their fans that they have truly turned a corner and those previous days are behind them.

2) Over hyping prospects is one of the easiest mistakes that all fan bases do. So I'd just keep that in mind.

 

[Meeqs]

No one said his skill level has changed. Makar is most likely going to be an NHL star. But Boeser already is an NHL star, that's the difference.

You're missing the point. That difference doesn't exist and ultimately isn't relevant. What your referencing is a fans personal emotional certainty on a player, which isn't a factor in actuality

 

[GoodbyeLuongo]

2 things:

1) they have certainly done much better as of late, and its showing on the ice. However when you look past the very recent success, Van has been one of the worst drafting teams for a long period of time. I hope for their fans that they have truly turned a corner and those previous days are behind them.

2) Over hyping prospects is one of the easiest mistakes that all fan bases do. So I'd just keep that in mind.

Yes, Gillis was absolutely terrible at it. He hit on one pick, his last one with Bo. Benning has been far, far better.

 

[WHISTLERNATE]

What team would trade you their young, high end 1C for Heiskanen? I would say none. You wouldn't get EP, you wouldn't get Hischier, you wouldn't get Barzal, etc. The best young C Heiskanen would command would be a Kotkaniemi type or something like a Horvat++. Maybe you could swing a Barkov, but there's a big age difference in that scenario.

I agree that you wouldn't trade EP for Heiskanen, and probably not Barzal, but I have to think most people would trade Hischier?

 

[innitfam]

I see the reason behind it, especially if we can add one of the top UFA wingers, but losing Boeser would suck and I'm not sure Colorado or Dallas goes through with it

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

While you're not wrong, the chances are the players from the 2017 draft that are already producing are likely the top of the class, it's extremely rare for a player to be good enough to be top of class but not already be playing in the NHL. Also, Pettersson is putting up numbers that only have been bested by the likes of Ovi and Crosby, who are two of the best in the games. All signs are pointing to Pettersson being best in class by a country mile.

Nikita Kucherov wasn't playing in the NHL by the end of his D+2 season, and is now considered by most people to be the best player from the 2011 draft class (and one of the best in the NHL). If we look at the halfway mark of the 2013 season, all signs pointed to Landeskog or RNH being the best from the draft class.

Filip Forsberg (2012 draft) had 18 NHL games and 6 total NHL points by the end of his D+2 season, and is now arguably the best from his draft class. Halfway through D+2 season, all signs probably would have pointed to Galchenyuk being the best from the draft.

That's two examples from recent drafts of something that you claim is "extremely rare". So, you can believe Pettersson will be the "best in class by a country mile" if you want, but I'm going to wait until more than 8 guys have 40+ NHL games, and make that decision based on a statistically significant sample size.

 

[Cogburn]

Colorado and Dallas have scoring forwards. Wingers are worth less then D as well.

Vancouver doesn't outside of Boeser and Pettersson. Horvat maybe but we have 0 scoring wingers outside of Boeser that we can rely on so far. Baertschi is injured and is a bit of a risk concussion wise. Virtanen isn't a pure goal scorer but more of a powerforward or grinder with scoring ability. Goldobin hasn't found consistency yet. Leivo is a tweener even if he is a talented one. Dahlen and Lind could be a long time from making an impact. Eriksson is not a scorer any more. MacEwen came out of no where and might not be a name we remember in the future if he does stick. Kero and Pyatt and Gagner and Boucher will probably never see the light of day again. Granlund isn't cutting it as a forward let alone a scoring forward. Roussel is a lot of things but a reliable scoring threat he is not. Sutter and Beagle and Schaller are not scoring threats. Motte is useful as a swiss army knife but you'd be nuts to have him in a scoring role regularly. Gaudette is still figuring things out. Gaunce and Gadjovich are not likely to contribute offensively. Jasek is hit or miss. I think I've hit any (even remote) possibility of a scoring forward from our roster. I don't think I can make that any more clear.

Vancouver has D. Edler and Tanev as top four or top pairing guys now and Hughes and possibly Juolevi and Woo in the future. We could absolutely use a top flight young defenseman but we are actually better equipped there then we are at our wings going forward.

With a little sophmore slump from Boeser Dallas and Colorado fans saying no for their highly touted D makes sense to me.

Be patient. Wait for reinforcements. Don't piss off other fan bases trading from our position of weakness for theirs while only subtracting from their weakness. At worst we can take a huge dive into the UFA market or trade some assets at the draft.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Dallas says no to Van

Van says no to Colorado

Nope Colorado hangs up before Vancouver gets a chance to offer it.


Makar is not for trade. He has as much upside as Heiskanen.

 

[Luck 6]

I’d do it for Heiskanen. No chance for Makar right now.

 

[Jabba The Hutton]

Would rather keep Boeser and just work on upgrading our depth dmen. I'm fine with Edler/Tanev, Hutton/Stecher (biega as 7th D), since we have Juolevi and Hughes coming up next year. Our goals against is 20th, could easily be closer to average by next year. If Juolevi isn't ready, we could pay 2nd and 3rd round prices + B prospect for dmen that would be upgrades to Gudbranson, Pouliot.

 

[CherryToke]

Makar is not for trade. He has as much upside as Heiskanen.

We shall see. I think he would have put up near PPG in his D+1 if that were true.

 

[Dr Pepper]

I get the argument, don’t get me wrong.

By the same token, perhaps the Stars or Avs would be motivated to trade for Brock since he’d be a bigger help for this year’s playoffs.

Benn-Seguin-Boeser

Or

Mackinnon/Raantanen anchoring one line, while Landeskog and Boeser anchoring another. Now all of a sudden, the Avs have two good scoring lines and could be poised to be a dark horse.

Boeser would make both teams an instant dark horse.

Benn and Seguin are faring just fine with Radulov, thanks.

Offense as a whole is down in Dallas, but trading away a gem like Miro for a winger makes zero sense.

 

[The3rd]

You want Heiskanen? It'll take Pettersson. Nothing less.

Closer than a lot of people would like to believe, but seemingly accurate!

 

[The3rd]

Nucks fan,

Heiskanen>boeser
Boeser=>makar (only because makar hasnt played in the nhl yet)

Besides boeser we have no legit top6 wingers
COL has no reason to trade makar since they have 3 top line forwards already and potential 1 top and 1 top 10 pick this year ( most likely will be forwards)
Dallas would never trade heisk. No team trades a stud young D, with the only comparable jones-johansen and that was because of Nsh depth and a need for a #1c. Even then it looks like columbus got the better end of the stick.

None of these teams make this deal, not Van, not Dallas, not Col. Literally all players were drafted at the time to fulfill a perspective need and it just so happens that every guy worked out very well for the teams...so why in the bleep trade any of them???

 

[135ace]

I agree that you wouldn't trade EP for Heiskanen, and probably not Barzal, but I have to think most people would trade Hischier?

I don't think he's done enough to pass Hischier (who has had excellent production for a player his age). I could see why some people who don't watch Nico might want to rank him above Nico based on potential, but if you watch Nico you'll see he has great potential. On potential alone I actually think Barzal is the worst out of the group. Probably something like EP>>>Miro>/=Nico>Barzal. People will likely freak out about this, but I think it's quite clear that Barzal is a lot closer to his ceiling than the other 3 youngsters.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

We shall see. I think he would have put up near PPG in his D+1 if that were true.

He was adjusting from playing in a junior A league to literally the most difficult league he could play in without turning pro.


That's a massive adjustment and if you had actually watched him play you'd have seen that his biggest focus was on adjusting and improving his play without the puck and learning how to play at a top level every single night.


He stands a good chance at winning the Hobey Baker as a 20 year old in his 2nd year of college hockey, as a Dman this year. That simply does not happen and us extremely rare. He is going to be elite and will be a top pairing NHL Dman. The only questions that remain are whether he's a #2 guy, a #1 Guy, or an elite franchise level guy.


And we're not trading any of those options for a Top line winger.