Brian MacLellan's tenure as GM of the Washington Capitals (UPD: rumor agreed to multi-year extens)

[Ridley Simon]

Then do it better. Do it in a fashion less likely to bite you in the ass in the future for no particular good reason. Do it more in a way that when you are giving up prime assets it's not just for some very short-term rental like Shattenkirk where you only have him for one run and even that is a bit of a questionable fit. Do it in every sense of maximizing what's available rather than just focusing on certain parts of what makes a team immediately competitive. Do it without skimping on the intangibles and the more subtle development needed beyond amassing a good team on paper. One recent example of a more subtle missed opportunity would be the neglect toward Hershey's forward ranks last off-season in not giving them enough skilled options. It not only reduced the number of recall options for the parent club but it would have made Hershey more competitive, given them more balance in light of how young they are on the blueline and likely would have helped all of the D prospects be further along than they are now (at least from a confidence standpoint). I don't think Hershey has had that weak a team in well over a decade and it didn't really need to be that way. Based on some of MacLellan's comments to Vogel, it seems like an afterthought and that's not how it should be. Again, for me it comes down to balance. Overaggressiveness to the point of glossing over essential components of overall quality management isn't very impressive.

Some things are outside of MacLellan's control. The coaching staff is likely chief among them currently. We'll see whether that continues but at the very least I'd assume he'll be financially restricted. He's maybe not then fully allowed to enact his vision to a tee but I still don't think that vision extends very far into the future and seems to gloss over a lot of what truly makes an organization elite. All of that leaves them on weaker ground in the future than they otherwise would be if they maintained the same sense of aggressiveness in a more disciplined fashion toward other areas that end up making an organization strong/deep. As-is I think they still lack substance as an organization and MacLellan plays a key role in that being the case. Like I said, he's a fine personnel guy but that's about it IMO and he's not so tremendous at that to the point where the rest can be ignored.

You dont need to be sorry that you're a stats geek. We get it. And you aren't the top of that group, I wouldnt say (not that there is anything wrong....with that )

I dont like using the Shattenkirk trade as a "negative". Had the Pens acquired him (as had been rumoured at the time), and they won the Cup with him on the roster (as they probably would have), then everyone on here would have bitched and moaned about how we "Let Shatty go to the freaking Pens!!!!". We all know it. He did what he had to do, to put the team in the best possible situation to win it.... they just didnt.

Was there a better TDL acquisition that should have been acquired, over Shattenkirk (at the time...lets not use 20/20 here please)

 

[Langway]

Do you think MacLellan needs to be replaced?

I think the culture needs to fundamentally continue to evolve or else they're likely to be bypassed by both franchises that already have that mentality or up-and-coming franchises that are driven by ascending core groups. Whether MacLellan can manage that or not...I'd tend to think not at this point. Optimistically, I guess you could argue that if he's able to hand-pick the next coach maybe all of his vision could be enacted more strategically than Trotz has been able to manage. But I do think that there should be constant review protocols in place by any more scientifically or analytic-oriented GM that insures a more thorough self-assessment of underlying performance and finer sense of development and what actions are necessary. They do run their own player analytics but it doesn't seem to lead to any sort of coherent management partnership in terms of developmental action. That disconnect IMO is not how teams should be managed and I'd wager that will probably follow with any replacement that happens to have a particular shortcoming or blind spot. It isn't just on the coaching staff to make players better and see to it that longer-term trends aren't getting lost in the constant day-to-day shuffle. So, again, I think you can't just judge MacLellan on personnel alone and then just blame ownership or the coaching staff for basically everything else even if the power dynamic absolves MacLellan of some responsibility.

Re: Shattenkirk, sometimes the best trades to make are ones not made. Had they had a better eye of judgement on Schmidt or been better able to make 74 on PP1 work on all cylinders then that move is less appealing. It was a luxury type move when they should have been getting their house in order to a greater extent. And I think that's the basic wastefulness of MacLellan's tenure to date. He's been unable to preside over a more diligent underlying culture, despite his initial brash tough talk. I don't think they'll ever truly get the results they need without a stronger, more detailed leader calling the shots overall. Some his boldness has been refreshing in comparison to the past but there's still a long way to go in terms of being properly disciplined and resisting the hype of just putting together what are essentially rather soft, top-heavy regular season geared teams. There's another level of foresight needed that doesn't seem to filter into how they prepare much at all and doesn't even really seem to inform some of their personnel moves either.

 

[Ajax1995]

I just want to confirm that if the Caps had won the cup last season then getting Shattenkirk still would have been a dumb move because what they should have been doing was ‘getting their house in order’ and preparing for another cup less off season?

So basically they should have known they weren’t going to win it all so why even try?

 

[Langway]

No. It's more like they should have had a better idea of where they were within that process and more intelligently planned accordingly. They never really seem to grasp the reality of their situation until it's right on them and then they predictably fold rather than buckle down. There's an ongoing cultural problem that MacLellan seems to have only made more persistent (based in part on his largely one-dimensional and removed approach).

You can't buy a championship and it's foolish these days to even begin to operate that way. But even on that level, his personnel moves haven't been so genius as that of a GM could pull it off. So even on his supposed strength, it's much more of a mixed bag and one less likely to bear fruit as time passes. I don't really get the accolades based off of adding Niskanen, Orpik and Oshie. That's not exactly a wide-ranging set of moves that sets them up for lasting success. He made a couple of needed short-term moves and that's basically it. It's enough to gain the favor of ownership and, of course, their typical standard is part of the problem. Nonetheless, it still doesn't absolve their hires for just being altogether pretty mediocre.

 

[RandyHolt]

Hindsight is 2020, but getting KSK, what were we expecting. We had 2 strong movers in front of him. It's a pipe dream to think he would significantly improve our #1 PP no matter how much we complained nobody can feed Ovi on the PP, ignoring we have fed him his entire career.

He was really looking at being a bottom pairing only guy with someone likely to drag him down. Getting him commits to rolling 3 pairs at a time coaches shorten the bench. Compounding that, Barry went 7D.

Barry doesn't seem to like these SADPMD (SAD=Suck at D) types much anyways. Did he have full faith in KSKs D? I doubt it.

St Louis selling him is a huge red flag and broke the precedent of competitors not selling UFAs.

If Pitt got him we'd be fleecing BMac, but we have to be reality and admit getting him failed. If we didnt have Carlson or Nisky, he would have been a no brainer add.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

No. It's more like they should have had a better idea of where they were within that process and more intelligently planned accordingly. They never really seem to grasp the reality of their situation until it's right on them and then they predictably fold rather than buckle down. There's an ongoing cultural problem that MacLellan seems to have only made more persistent (based in part on his largely one-dimensional and removed approach).

You can't buy a championship and it's foolish these days to even begin to operate that way. But even on that level, his personnel moves haven't been so genius as that of a GM could pull it off. So even on his supposed strength, it's much more of a mixed bag and one less likely to bear fruit as time passes. I don't really get the accolades based off of adding Niskanen, Orpik and Oshie. That's not exactly a wide-ranging set of moves that sets them up for lasting success. He made a couple of needed short-term moves and that's basically it. It's enough to gain the favor of ownership and, of course, their typical standard is part of the problem. Nonetheless, it still doesn't absolve their hires for just being altogether pretty mediocre.

I still think we were very close to winning it all and while our formula wasn't perfect, it was good enough to win a championship last year.

 

[Brian23]

I still think we were very close to winning it all and while our formula wasn't perfect, it was good enough to win a championship last year.

Right? Outside of game 7, everyone seems to forget how we dominated the Penguins. Literally the only reason it even got to game 7 was Holtby couldn't buy an opportune save.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

Right? Outside of game 7, everyone seems to forget how we dominated the Penguins. Literally the only reason it even got to game 7 was Holtby couldn't buy an opportune save.

This goes against the narrative that we're horrible in the playoffs. We're not actually horrible, we're just not good in the key situations.

 

[Capsman]

Don’t think we dominated at all. And we’ve lost to different teams in different ways. It’s system.

 

[Brian23]

Don’t think we dominated at all. And we’ve lost to different teams in different ways. It’s system.

What playoffs were you watching? We drove play, peppered them with shots, and held onto the puck. It was just anytime the Pen's got a chance to move up ice it was a goal, 2v2 and it was going in the back of our net. It wasn't even a system thing, people really love to underplay just how good and talented we were the last two years. We were a straight up meat grinder.

 

[Capsman]

What playoffs were you watching? We drove play, peppered them with shots, and held onto the puck. It was just anytime the Pen's got a chance to move up ice it was a goal, 2v2 and it was going in the back of our net. It wasn't even a system thing, people really love to underplay just how good and talented we were the last two years. We were a straight up meat grinder.

Oh I think we were talented alright. But I don’t think the system was/is conducive to winning playoff series.

 

[hockeykicker]

 

[Empty Goal Net]

Hope he has the opportunity to set a course w/o interference from Dick & Ted, save for things like overall budget and long-term commitments. If they don't tell him what he must do - e.g., keep Trotz, or hire AV - then he'll have a window to establish his vision. We'll see how this goes.

 

[marcel snapshot]

If Pitt got him we'd be fleecing BMac, but we have to be reality and admit getting him failed. If we didnt have Carlson or Nisky, he would have been a no brainer add.

If we'd nutted up for Game 7 and took them down as we should have, Shatty would have been a key to the series victory, scoring the OT winner in Game 3 that kept us out of an 0-3 hole. That said, the brass thought we needed him because Schmidt wasn't good enough. It turned out Schmidt was clearly better than 2 other guys in our pre-Shatty top 6, and we needed Shattenkirk because he was a marginal net gain over Orpik and Alzner. So, do we give the brass credit for addressing a flaw they didn't really know existed. Meh.

 

[Bananas]

I wonder how long it will take before it’s convenional wisdom that BMBM is average? My guess is the vast majority on here will be down on him before he’s ultimately removed for an in-house replacement. If he’s staying I think it’s imperative that our coach search leads us outside the organization. The Caps desperately need fresh eyes and a fresh voice on the situation. Similar to the end of the Boudreau and McPhee years, I’ll still be rooting for a surprise here. I’d be thrilled if Trotz/Brian or ____/Brian get it done over the next year or two. I will definitely not be holding my breath, however.

 

[Ajax1995]

When teams add depth, whether depth type pickups or more front line guys who push others out of the lineup, and then don’t go far enough to need that depth everyone always pans those moves dumb.

Did the Caps need Shattenkirk to go out in the 2nd round? Probably not. But if they had gone farther who knows what injuries may have happened. If they hadn’t added him and ended up playing game 7 of the Eastern Conference finals with 4 AHL defensemen, as the Sabres had to not all that long ago, everyone would have panned him for not adding.

You don’t add depth because you think the same 6 guys on your blueline are going to take you to the cup. You do it because you know if you go deep enough it is pretty darn unlikely they all stay healthy.

They just didn’t go deep enough to need Shattenkirk. That doesn’t make it a bad move IMO.

 

[ovikovy817]

How many years?

 

[maacoshark]

You dont need to be sorry that you're a stats geek. We get it. And you aren't the top of that group, I wouldnt say (not that there is anything wrong....with that )

I dont like using the Shattenkirk trade as a "negative". Had the Pens acquired him (as had been rumoured at the time), and they won the Cup with him on the roster (as they probably would have), then everyone on here would have *****ed and moaned about how we "Let Shatty go to the freaking Pens!!!!". We all know it. He did what he had to do, to put the team in the best possible situation to win it.... they just didnt.

Was there a better TDL acquisition that should have been acquired, over Shattenkirk (at the time...lets not use 20/20 here please)

If you dont think the Shattenkirk deal was a negative then you really don't know what kind of player he is. I knew what kind of player he was before he got here and had a feeling he wouldn't fit.
If he was such an impact player then why would the Blues trade him when they were making a playoff rum themselves.

 

[maacoshark]

Oh I think we were talented alright. But I don’t think the system was/is conducive to winning playoff series.

The system is fine. Yes we have some talent but it doesn't translate into a good team. We have too many east/west players losing the puck on toedrags. We dont have near enough north/ south players that play a 200 foot game.
We signed some players to some big long term deals that just aren't earning the money. We lost some players to free agency and lost Schmidt to expansion. Any players we have added are all borderline players. Especially the 2 dmen we just added. Our team has gotten worse. Sounds like some very poor management.

 

[Ridley Simon]

If you dont think the Shattenkirk deal was a negative then you really don't know what kind of player he is. I knew what kind of player he was before he got here and had a feeling he wouldn't fit.
If he was such an impact player then why would the Blues trade him when they were making a playoff rum themselves.

I know what kind of player he is. Show me your posts from back then and sure, you can take credit for seeing it early.

However, he was easily the best player available at the TDL. So I don’t believe you in saying it was the wrong move at the time. It wasn’t. It just didn’t work out.

And the Blues are one of the few teams that trades players at the TDL for futures while in contention. They did it again this year. Is Paul Stastny now also trash because he was dealt a few weeks ago?

 

[Ridley Simon]

The system is fine. Yes we have some talent but it doesn't translate into a good team. We have too many east/west players losing the puck on toedrags. We dont have near enough north/ south players that play a 200 foot game.
We signed some players to some big long term deals that just aren't earning the money. We lost some players to free agency and lost Schmidt to expansion. Any players we have added are all borderline players. Especially the 2 dmen we just added. Our team has gotten worse. Sounds like some very poor management.

They gave up low level draft picks for the 2 d-men they acquired. They are playing as expected. Maybe your expectations were wrong.

They also had zero cap space. So only deal to be made was to ship salary out. We’ve all been over this, to death.

 

[maacoshark]

They gave up low level draft picks for the 2 d-men they acquired. They are playing as expected. Maybe your expectations were wrong.

They also had zero cap space. So only deal to be made was to ship salary out. We’ve all been over this, to death.

We had zero cap space because of the poor signings we made in the off season. Especially Oshie. An 8 year deal at just under 6 per season for a player in his 30s. Tell me how that isn't a poor signing

 

[maacoshark]

I know what kind of player he is. Show me your posts from back then and sure, you can take credit for seeing it early.

However, he was easily the best player available at the TDL. So I don’t believe you in saying it was the wrong move at the time. It wasn’t. It just didn’t work out.

And the Blues are one of the few teams that trades players at the TDL for futures while in contention. They did it again this year. Is Paul Stastny now also trash because he was dealt a few weeks ago?

Shattenkirk did not fit this team.

 

[Brian23]

Shattenkirk did not fit this team.

He was the best piece avalibe and supposed to be the missing piece to make all 3 lines deadly "first" lines. He was good with Schmidt, it's not his fault that Trotz stuck him with Orpik for almost the entirety of his time here.

 

[Ridley Simon]

We had zero cap space because of the poor signings we made in the off season. Especially Oshie. An 8 year deal at just under 6 per season for a player in his 30s. Tell me how that isn't a poor signing

It’s TBD as a signing. FA wingers that score at Oshie’s clip are worth 6m on the open market. There are literal examples you can find at the drop of a hat. From the past 2-3 years....not just last summer.

So while 8 years is long, it’s very long, the cap hit is accurate. I like Oshie the player, I love Oshie the person, so as a Caps fan, I’m happy he’s here. He had a brutal concussion. One that should not have happened. It was not “game play” related, from where I sat. He hasn’t been the same since. You blame him for that?

His play before the injury was every bit worth his contract. Every single bit.