Brian MacLellan's tenure as GM of the Washington Capitals (UPD: rumor agreed to multi-year extens)
- Thread starter ChibiPooky
- Start date
Hivemind
We're Touched
He's good, but his senior year has been disappointing after his breakout junior year. If he does sign with the Capitals, I wouldn't rule out a cup of coffee, but I wouldn't count on it either. I certainly wouldn't be penciling him into the playoff roster just yet.
Plus I'm not convinced he even signs with Washington.
CapitalsCupReality
It’s Go Time!!
- Feb 27, 2002
- 64,720
- 19,583
Hivemind
We're Touched
Oshie trade and Niskanen contract would be his best two, easily.
That being said, going forwards the perception of the Oshie trade will likely be colored by Oshie's performance on his new contract.
RandyHolt
Keep truckin'
- Nov 3, 2006
- 34,812
- 7,145
Fumbling away MJ on the cheap after inking Oshie
As others have noted, we got slower as the league got faster.
Speculation, wishful thinking Grubauer would be selected by Vegas
Losing Schmidt to Vegas when others were pushing their problems on George. Chorney + a 2nd. George loves 2nds.
Not a fan of the Chorney contract but whatever
Deadline adds failed
That Orpik Contract
Possibly that Oshie contract
Pushing all in on DMW Trotz without an extension after close to 2 decades of playoff failure.
Promoting Reirden in title and money only, when a staff shakeup may have been wise.
Our cup aspirations are slowly slipping away on his watch. Lets be reality.
Trades an awful lot of picks to move up a few spots. Trading up for Walker? Drafting heavy D it seems.
Thin cupboard of prospects.
Drafting Samsonov is up for debate, but I still don't like the pick. BPA blah blah we need skaters
Last edited:
Dr John Carlson
Registered User
Gersich's linemates last season were Tyson Jost and Brock Boeser, both of whom are now full-time NHLers. A regression in production was expected.
I don't understand much about the NCAA but isn't putting up less than a PPG with those 2 at his age not that impressive?
- Mar 26, 2007
- 3,782
- 1,846
I’m gonna go on record again and say that Brian’s tenure has been largely a mixed bag. Hopefully he improves over the next few seasons but if his trajectory is any indication - which I think is a downward one- I’d wager that he’ll do just enough to keep us competitive, and not much more. He is riding GMGM and Ovechkin’s coattails as of right now. And he doesn’t have any knock-it-out-of-the-park-this-changes-everything moves to hang his hat on. Oshie is the closest thing to that but then he turned around and signed him for 8 years when there is a long history of players of his ilk declining precipitously in their 30s. Orpik is another player who served a purpose, so the signing wasn’t terrible, but keeping him on this season in the top-4 while leaving the younger, faster, cheaper and better suited to today’s game Schmidt unprotected is most likely another Cup losing blunder. Combined with his deadline flops, I’d say he’s taken away as many chances as he’s given.
He gave us two amazing opportunities at a Cup when there was a perfect storm on the roster. But his first year and this year - two seasons where considerably more work was needed - he punted and it cost us. Plus if you look down the road into subsequent seasons I’d say we could definitely be in better shape. He’s neither tried to aggressively open a window down the road, nor has he truly gone all-in on a consistent basis. Instead he’s done a little bit of one and a little more of the other.
This playoffs and the following offseason will be extremely telling. I won’t be shocked if he surprises me and smartly retools the roster on the fly. However, my confidence in his ability to do that effectively is at an all-time low, so if I had to guess I’d say he continues to tinker and largely ride Ovechkin’s brilliance and McPhee’s core...
Not only that, I don’t think he has the stones or the gravitas to make a larger impact on the organizational culture. I think the continuation of some of the things that plagued us during McPhee is a testament to that. If it’s coaching, he needed to spearhead a more aggressive approach to rectifying it. If it’s the players then he needed to trade from the core and change up the inherent mix on that front. He’s done neither.
We could do better...if anyone wants to seriously argue otherwise, have at it. So far no one has spelled out sufficiently why Brian is such a keeper at this point. I think the reason that no one has done it is because it can’t actually be done.
He gave us two amazing opportunities at a Cup when there was a perfect storm on the roster. But his first year and this year - two seasons where considerably more work was needed - he punted and it cost us. Plus if you look down the road into subsequent seasons I’d say we could definitely be in better shape. He’s neither tried to aggressively open a window down the road, nor has he truly gone all-in on a consistent basis. Instead he’s done a little bit of one and a little more of the other.
This playoffs and the following offseason will be extremely telling. I won’t be shocked if he surprises me and smartly retools the roster on the fly. However, my confidence in his ability to do that effectively is at an all-time low, so if I had to guess I’d say he continues to tinker and largely ride Ovechkin’s brilliance and McPhee’s core...
Not only that, I don’t think he has the stones or the gravitas to make a larger impact on the organizational culture. I think the continuation of some of the things that plagued us during McPhee is a testament to that. If it’s coaching, he needed to spearhead a more aggressive approach to rectifying it. If it’s the players then he needed to trade from the core and change up the inherent mix on that front. He’s done neither.
We could do better...if anyone wants to seriously argue otherwise, have at it. So far no one has spelled out sufficiently why Brian is such a keeper at this point. I think the reason that no one has done it is because it can’t actually be done.
Last edited:
Well, you know this was meant for posters like me, so....
GMGM's coattails? LOL. What are those, exactly? Mahoney's draft picks? The Ovechkin lottery ball? What else? GMGM tore it down (because Ted forced him too), and traded off everyone. What did he get for that? Some draft picks (as stated earlier, with Mahoney heavily involved), and a couple of players like Flash and Laich. Not much else.
GMGM had ONE good deadline. The infamous Federov/Huet one. That was awesome. But it looks like it was lightning in a bottle, as it only happened that ONE time (which was massively negated by the other...the LAST....deadline bomb that he dealt the franchise).
GMBM added the touches to the GMGM legacy that took a team out of the playoffs (we all seem to forget that), and in to 2 Pres Cups in 3 years. Sure, Pres Cups dont mean much, but its not "riding a coattail" either.
He didnt do anything his first year? When exactly did Niskanen and Orpik sign their contracts?? Oh yeah....a month or so into Brian's regime. His first 3 off-seasons were spent making the team better. He did that. His 4th off-season was having to see FA and Expansion tear it apart. Again, as I've stated earlier, thats not an every year phenomenon...those 2 things in tandem. As an example, we have ONE true UFA this summer. Carlson. Much easier to navigate.
GMBM did more in 3 years than GMGM did in 17. By a factor of 2 (2 Pres Cup's to 1).
GMGM got the team to the SC Finals his first year. After that, 3 2nd round losses....in 17 years. GMBM also has 3 2nd round losses....in 3 years.
"We could do better.....".
Ok, I will bite. Like who? I'm not saying "we cant find a good GM"....but I honestly ask you, who? Lombardi? That donkey from the Rangers? (Neil Smith). Someone else's 2nd in charge? A stats geek like Chayka? Who??
RandyHolt
Keep truckin'
- Nov 3, 2006
- 34,812
- 7,145
AtNightWeFly
You better run.
About Mitch Korn - I mean the man wanted to retire and spend more time with his family. Why is that B.Mac's failure? And if Holtby cant play without him then that says a lot about Holtby.
There's no such thing as a perfect GM. They all have f***ups! He's a million times better than George( who was atrocious) and should be given a few more years. Trotz is the biggest problem with this team currently and I'm not sure if I can even blame B.Mac for that, might be the ownership that doesn't want to fire him anyways.
Right. His years as a PR guy for Ted will work in concert with their visions of Ex Capitals leading us to the promised land. Just need Langway (not the poster...although he may do better?) as one assistant GM, and Bengt Gus as the other.
Fill out coaching staff with Oates and Hunter....and voila!
If we want an ex Cap. Focus on Quenneville.
RandyHolt
Keep truckin'
- Nov 3, 2006
- 34,812
- 7,145
All good points. I will concede Korn can be removed from my list.
I was just making a counter list to all those great trades and moves that he is hanging his hammock on.
RandyHolt
Keep truckin'
- Nov 3, 2006
- 34,812
- 7,145
@Rids - Nice pull on the former Cap Joel Q
Bondra does have some GM experience.eu. I feel more and more, our GM is just the spokesperson for Dick Patrick anyways.
Bondra does have some GM experience.eu. I feel more and more, our GM is just the spokesperson for Dick Patrick anyways.
Langway
In den Wolken
- Jul 7, 2006
- 32,431
- 9,150
Sorry. I'd probably be one of those stats geeks.
It's hard to completely hammer MacLellan because ownership interference/involvement does muddy the waters some. On the other hand, I don't think you can laud MacLellan for his aggressiveness and overlook the fact that he does have a degree of autonomy to shape the agenda. He doesn't have total control and that's a problem but he does very likely at least have the same degree of power as McPhee. McPhee put into place protocols to continue to improve their drafting during the rebuild and it's not clear MacLellan has followed suit. I don't think he's really done anything to make Mahoney more effective, despite Mahoney getting a promotion. I'm also not sure he's made for an effective foil for Trotz so in terms of the management of non-player personnel talent IMO he's shown some limitations. He seems to exclusively be a win-now type personnel guy only and that's basically what the majority of his backers tend to judge him on. But the other facets of being a general manager matter. They're less bold and obvious but crucial just the same. Even with financial constraints in place, there are actions that could be taken to maximize efficiency and I don't get the sense he bothers because they're able to get away with it. So, when it comes to whether he's THE organizational stickler that will steer them around obstacles via his intelligent foresight I just don't see it from him. He's aggressive and that has a place but there needs to be more substance beyond that.
Their predominant win-now attitude filters down into every aspect of their functioning and I don't think it's for the better due to how many shortcuts they tend to take in the process. Over time that starts to come at a price and that bill will increasingly start becoming a factor for them. They paid the price this past deadline by being handcuffed by Orpik's contract and a lack of assets. It's possible it creeps into cap issues for the foreseeable future. TJ Oshie obviously is becoming a problem and at this rate will be part of their secondary scoring issues when it matters. That contract is probably not going anywhere if he's only scoring every month or two. It's possible ownership involvement was part of just how disorganized their last off-season was but he's got to at least share some blame in being so last minute with basically every single decision.
Mostly, I think MacLellan has shown that he's purely a win-now type GM and I wouldn't trust him to rebuild. He's likely only going to make more moves that make an eventual rebuild that much taller a task. It's a high standard but I tend to prefer GMs that can keep all of the balls in the air at the same time while truly building up organizational depth. That way when they do actually want to be aggressive, they have the assets to be in that game. IMO his lack of discipline and shortcomings as an all-around GM restrict him from being as aggressive as he'd like and that has just as much to do with his mentality as a GM as ownership's involvement.
Alexander the Gr8
Registered User
The win-now attitude is necessary. It's good that they showed urgency and made the players feel it. It's not GMBM's fault that the players couldn't handle the pressure of only having two clean shots at winning the Cup. We're still in win now mode with a weaker roster, as we should be. Don't want to waste a single second of Ovi's prime.
Langway
In den Wolken
- Jul 7, 2006
- 32,431
- 9,150
Then do it better. Do it in a fashion less likely to bite you in the ass in the future for no particular good reason. Do it more in a way that when you are giving up prime assets it's not just for some very short-term rental like Shattenkirk where you only have him for one run and even that is a bit of a questionable fit. Do it in every sense of maximizing what's available rather than just focusing on certain parts of what makes a team immediately competitive. Do it without skimping on the intangibles and the more subtle development needed beyond amassing a good team on paper. One recent example of a more subtle missed opportunity would be the neglect toward Hershey's forward ranks last off-season in not giving them enough skilled options. It not only reduced the number of recall options for the parent club but it would have made Hershey more competitive, given them more balance in light of how young they are on the blueline and likely would have helped all of the D prospects be further along than they are now (at least from a confidence standpoint). I don't think Hershey has had that weak a team in well over a decade and it didn't really need to be that way. Based on some of MacLellan's comments to Vogel, it seems like an afterthought and that's not how it should be. Again, for me it comes down to balance. Overaggressiveness to the point of glossing over essential components of overall quality management isn't very impressive.
Some things are outside of MacLellan's control. The coaching staff is likely chief among them currently. We'll see whether that continues but at the very least I'd assume he'll be financially restricted. He's maybe not then fully allowed to enact his vision to a tee but I still don't think that vision extends very far into the future and seems to gloss over a lot of what truly makes an organization elite. All of that leaves them on weaker ground in the future than they otherwise would be if they maintained the same sense of aggressiveness in a more disciplined fashion toward other areas that end up making an organization strong/deep. As-is I think they still lack substance as an organization and MacLellan plays a key role in that being the case. Like I said, he's a fine personnel guy but that's about it IMO and he's not so tremendous at that to the point where the rest can be ignored.
- Mar 26, 2007
- 3,782
- 1,846
The only problem with that line of thinking is he didn’t play win-now his first deadline or his second. The yields were abysmal: Glencross, Webber et al. And this year’s dealings, Jerebek and Kempny, appear for the most part to be the sort of deadline dumpster dives for mid-round picks we’ve become accustomed to seeing under his stewardship. I think we should have gone more win-now, not less. So on that point I disagree with Langway’s otherwise exceptional analysis. That’s why I can’t blame him for Shattenkirk and, in fact, applaud him - although the poor result is not a feather in his cap by any stretch.
The bottom line is his in season-dealings have been borderline catastrophic and cancel out much of the good work he’s done, such as quickly addressing the D (Orpik, Niskanen) and acquiring secondary scoring on the cheap (Oshie, Williams). Not only that but seeing how he handled Oshie when his contract was up and Orpik once he was vastly overpaid starting this year, is further proof that he doesn’t have the foresight needed to stay a step ahead of roster problems. Problems that will only get worse as the excellent players he inherited from McPhee begin to age and become either more expensive, less effective...or both. Top it off with backing down from a potential EK blockbuster while Carlson or, hell, even Niskanen could have blunted the price, and you start to see a very uneven resume on closer inspection.
To answer Ridley, no I don’t know who would be better, and we could certainly do worse than BMac, but that doesn’t mean he hasn’t been average at best. If your goal is to win a Stanley Cup, you have to be a lot better than that...
artilector
Registered User
- Jan 11, 2006
- 8,351
- 1,187
Alexander the Gr8
Registered User
MacLellan has been part of this organization for a long time before being GM and we had perennial success based on regular season results and playoff appearances. It's easy to complain about the Shattenkirk trade not working, everyone was happy about it at the time. We didn't trade for Shattenkirk for his leadership or other intangible qualities, we traded for him to make our PP better in the playoffs. It worked, until Kadri took a run at Ovi's knee in game 5.
The GM isn't the only one who makes the call when it comes to recalling players from the farm club. Who says Trotz would've played the AHL kids if they had been recalled. I remember Bowey being called up twice last year and not playing. Vrana only played 21 games last year when he could've been a better option in the playoffs. Trotz chose to play 11 forwards and 7 Ds, not the GM's decision.
Do you think MacLellan needs to be replaced?
I get the feeling that those who don’t think MacLellan has done at least a reasonably good job are just anti-establishment overall concerning coaching/management at this point. Most complaints seem to be directed at Trotz and his failure to get more out of the players, and I don’t believe MacLellan hired Trotz, Leonsis did.
If you don’t hire and fire the coach then the best a GM can do is provide him with a team with a pretty decent shot at winning and the previous 2 seasons he definitely did that. This year they were going to take a step back regardless because of contracts, the question was just how much.
I’m not saying everything has been great, this offseason in particular, but overall I do think he has done a good job.
If you don’t hire and fire the coach then the best a GM can do is provide him with a team with a pretty decent shot at winning and the previous 2 seasons he definitely did that. This year they were going to take a step back regardless because of contracts, the question was just how much.
I’m not saying everything has been great, this offseason in particular, but overall I do think he has done a good job.
