Brian MacLellan's tenure as GM of the Washington Capitals (UPD: rumor agreed to multi-year extens)

txpd

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Yea, the Oshie hate is with a pretty short memory. After last season it was reported that about every player on the roster told MacLellan in the exit interview that he had to keep Oshie. Oshie was right on his numbers when he was hurt. He is a big part of the heart and soul of the team. I venture to guess that him not being himself has been a good contribution to why the team seems so off base.
 

hb12xchamps

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Ridley Simon

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I wonder how long it will take before it’s convenional wisdom that BMBM is average? My guess is the vast majority on here will be down on him before he’s ultimately removed for an in-house replacement. If he’s staying I think it’s imperative that our coach search leads us outside the organization. The Caps desperately need fresh eyes and a fresh voice on the situation. Similar to the end of the Boudreau and McPhee years, I’ll still be rooting for a surprise here. I’d be thrilled if Trotz/Brian or ____/Brian get it done over the next year or two. I will definitely not be holding my breath, however.

So your prognostication skills are telling you that a message board will howl for change before it actually happens. Bold commentary, Cotton.

I'd like to see them target a Quenneville, were he to become available. I'm not all that keen on Sutter, but I wouldnt be upset were he to get hired. Rierden is the obvious option, but that may not happen.

As I stated earlier....Dick Patrick's advancing age may change their dynamic here. The "Ted'n'Dick" show has produced a long line of rookie (cheap) hires. That was partially changed w Trotz (although he was still pretty cheap, considering), so there is hope. Someone like Quenneville will = 4-5m in annual salary, I think (Babcock is what....5m?). I cant see them spending that...which in the big picture, is foolish when they spend to the cap every season. If the cap is 80m...spending another 4m+ on a difference maker coach seems a wise investment. So while the headwinds of such a hire exist, the fact that Patrick probably has 5 or so more years left (at most?) of working this role has to come into play, IMO

Of course, all of this is based on a Quenneville type being available. That's certainly putting the cart before the horse here.
 

RandyHolt

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It is remarkable how much Dick and Teds big adventure is hamstrung by their consistent choice of coaches - all inexperienced, former players, or Trotz a guy with a playoff history so bad that it makes ours look better. All low paid including Trotz. They have been skimping on coaching for a decade, which is ironic since we spend to the cap consistently. With Ovi falling into their laps, it was the time to change course. Perhaps switching to Barry was changing course, but with Reirden lined up to take the reigns, expect little to change next year. Reirden should have gotten his chance this year, now with our defense regressing, does anyone even want him as our coach?
 

Langway

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CapFriendly has Q at $6M currently and Babcock at $6.25M. Those are the big two raises that stand to inflate the market for the elite of the elite. Trotz isn't on that level but he should still stand to benefit near the $4M range if demand for him is high enough (and enough big markets are involved).

I'll believe Patrick has clued into changing anything up when it happens. I still doubt they're prepared or seriously battle it out for HC talent like Q (even setting aside the $$$ involved). I just have to assume they'll run out the clock with the same superficial decision-making and general complacency. They had a prime opportunity last summer to change things up and did nothing on a positive, confidence-building level. I'm not sure yet another off-season of questions results in their solutions being any better.
 

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CapFriendly has Q at $6M currently and Babcock at $6.25M. Those are the big two raises that stand to inflate the market for the elite of the elite. Trotz isn't on that level but he should still stand to benefit near the $4M range if demand for him is high enough (and enough big markets are involved).

I'll believe Patrick has clued into changing anything up when it happens. I still doubt they're prepared or seriously battle it out for HC talent like Q (even setting aside the $$$ involved). I just have to assume they'll run out the clock with the same superficial decision-making and general complacency. They had a prime opportunity last summer to change things up and did nothing on a positive, confidence-building level. I'm not sure yet another off-season of questions results in their solutions being any better.

Hi "Glass Half Empty"...its "Glass Half Full" here, wanting to comment on this.

Sometimes it takes time to witness an error, and to fix it. Last summer was bad in all facets, and it was compounded by the very real, and very disrupting, hangover that the entire org felt from losing to the Pens. In particular, management. Now, you can hem and haw all you want about how they are "Professionals" and should be above that type of response, but whatever. They are human. And they are far more deeply immersed in it than we are.

I know I felt really badly for a few weeks after the loss. I stopped watching hockey...stopped thinking about it (much less talking about it). It was too painful a reminder. And I'm just a fan. Imagine you are a new GM of a team -- probably a life long dream to have that role -- and think you have a very very real chance to win the prize. You've spent a LOT of time and energy to get to that moment...and you lose. Yikes. I'm sure it was like a death in the family for Brian. By the time the funk was over, we were up to our eyeballs in decisions. So some weren't made well. Doesn't take a neurosurgeon to understand why.

This summer will be different. They have the benefit if time...a lot of it...to have plotted their course of action. I see it as akin to the summer of 2015. They made some really good strides that summer. I think they will again.

"Glass Half Full" signing out.
 

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So your prognostication skills are telling you that a message board will howl for change before it actually happens. Bold commentary, Cotton.

Umm, no. I’m saying all the GMBM supporters and apologists will come around once it becomes abundantly clear that he’s not very good - yourself included.
 

Bananas

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Sure....and you'll come around once he has another terrific summer. Which he's done 3x now (75% of the time)

I guess we’re gonna find out. I genuinely hope I’m wrong about the guy...but I don’t think I am. Plus I’m not sure you can say he’s had 3 terrific offseasons but maybe that’s just me. This offseason is tremendously important. We’ll know more soon.
 

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I guess we’re gonna find out. I genuinely hope I’m wrong about the guy...but I don’t think I am. Plus I’m not sure you can say he’s had 3 terrific offseasons but maybe that’s just me. This offseason is tremendously important. We’ll know more soon.

I want Patrick gone, I've said it for a while now. Thats all part of this.

Look at Rutherford. People thought he was horribad his last 5 (10?) years in Carolina. Bad move after bad move. Now he's a genius in Pittsburgh and should go to the Hall of Fame?

I guess.
 
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Langway

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This summer will be different. They have the benefit if time...a lot of it...to have plotted their course of action. I see it as akin to the summer of 2015. They made some really good strides that summer. I think they will again.

"Glass Half Full" signing out.
Keep the dream alive and all but they've had plenty of time during the season to get over it and plan more for the future. Instead, they seem very content to essentially waste another Ovechkin season because firing Trotz would be mean.

They've had more than enough time to act with a greater sense of foresight. One disappointment shouldn't change the overall vision given that it's really nothing new. The dynamic from summer 2016 to summer 2017 wasn't that different overall. There were just different matters to settle on the immediate agenda. They're just apparently unable to come at it from a more objective perspective, in part because ownership may not want that level of analysis due to an inherent preference to retain this core despite any signs it may have run its course. Not only that but everything tends to suggest them keeping the band together at all costs given their unequivocal support for doing whatever it takes to lock up Oshie and eventually Carlson.

I'd guess that the only way they have a more substantive level of change this summer is if they do get bounced in the first round and the excuses become even less convincing than usual. If they advance and get waxed by PIT again I don't think they'll necessarily change much. They'll lock up Carlson & Wilson, maybe do something at the goaltender position whether it's Holtby or Grubauer, swap out depth players and largely do what they do. Pinning their hopes on a genius coaching hire is likely asking way too much from them, mostly because they don't typically learn the right lessons from their failures.
 
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Bananas

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I want Patrick gone, I've said it for a while now. Thats all part of this.

Look at Rutherford. People thought he was horribad his last 5 (10?) years in Carolina. Bad move after bad move. Now he's a genius in Pittsburgh and should go to the Hall of Fame?

I guess.

I mean the options are he gets better on the fly or the Ovechkin Era is toast. I guess you could turn around and blame Patrick in the final analysis but that’s part of the problem with Brian for me. He’s not a truly outside-of-the-organization perspective and he doesn’t have the clout to win a power struggle with Patrick and Co. Demanding and setting his total vision is not a strong suit of his. Just one of several things to not love about the guy. Ted and Co will deservedly get a large portion of the blame if we come up short - MacLellan is not the answer there either, unfortunately. In that way Brian is just part of a larger problem - but a problem nonetheless.
 
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bur and 666 others

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I want Patrick gone, I've said it for a while now. Thats all part of this.

Look at Rutherford. People thought he was horribad his last 5 (10?) years in Carolina. Bad move after bad move. Now he's a genius in Pittsburgh and should go to the Hall of Fame?

I guess.
I have a theory on that. if you look at the best GMs around the league, they are people who have been around for a while. It's a closed club of 31 people, you need to develop good relationships with everyone to make trades, especially good ones. With whom you would make a trade if everything is the same, when a rookie calls to you or an experienced and well respected guy? Plus you need to develop your instincts, to know the 'market' which is essentially feelings/next moves of your peers. Additionally, you need to have a long term plan which is easier when you have lots of experience to know what works and what doesn't. Essentially, the gm is in my eyes a guy who can make a deal (buy or sell) behind the closed doors at the best possible price or even make a deal. I am very frustrated with GMBM, but i do understand why he can't make deals or make deals where he overpays (expect Blues lol, he has a good relationship with them). it's because he is a rookie, practically outsider, haven't developed good working relationships with anyone yet. My two cents.
 
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Ridley Simon

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I mean the options are he gets better on the fly or the Ovechkin Era is toast. I guess you could turn around and blame Patrick in the final analysis but that’s part of the problem with Brian for me. He’s not a truly outside-of-the-organization perspective and he doesn’t have the clout to win a power struggle with Patrick and Co. Demanding and setting his total vision is not a strong suit of his. Just one of several things to not love about the guy. Ted and Co will deservedly get a large portion of the blame if we come up short - McClellan is not the answer there either, unfortunately. In that way Brian is just part of a larger problem - but a problem nonetheless.

This is going to sound trite, and I dont mean it to be....but have you worked in a role where you were at the top of the house, but not the top? I dont think GMBM can be held at fault for what Patrick does. Nor do I think Patrick is going to ever hire a guy that will defuse his involvement. So your criticism that Brian allows it seems unfair. Neither of us know that is allowed -- day to day -- or how deeply Patrick instills his "vision". We have seen quite a few comments that would lead us to believe that GMBM has been handcuffed with the coaching situation. Especially after the last Pens loss. I think (my opinion) that he wanted Trotz fired, and couldnt do it. After 2016 he specifically called out what he wanted done better....and those really didnt happen (pace of game, etc).

GMBM has to work the lay of his land. Much like McPhee did. In retrospect, it looks as though both men were/are handcuffed by Patrick. However, one had more success than the other (discounting the 1998 Poile team). And George has done awfully well so far in VGK, so I think both are talented and "know what to do". But Brian seems bolder and more direct, which frankly feels better than the way George used to handle things.

Patrick will simply NOT relinquish control now....at age 72 or whatever....so a new GM seems like a waste of time. The new GM would have a much higher learning curve, and candidly may be just as handcuffed as George or Brian, but with the "newness" curve to deal with. No Thanks.

Patrick will need to run his course. And maybe get more aggressive in his twilight years. Here's to hoping that happens.
 

Bananas

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This is going to sound trite, and I dont mean it to be....but have you worked in a role where you were at the top of the house, but not the top? I dont think GMBM can be held at fault for what Patrick does. Nor do I think Patrick is going to ever hire a guy that will defuse his involvement. So your criticism that Brian allows it seems unfair. Neither of us know that is allowed -- day to day -- or how deeply Patrick instills his "vision". We have seen quite a few comments that would lead us to believe that GMBM has been handcuffed with the coaching situation. Especially after the last Pens loss. I think (my opinion) that he wanted Trotz fired, and couldnt do it. After 2016 he specifically called out what he wanted done better....and those really didnt happen (pace of game, etc).

GMBM has to work the lay of his land. Much like McPhee did. In retrospect, it looks as though both men were/are handcuffed by Patrick. However, one had more success than the other (discounting the 1998 Poile team). And George has done awfully well so far in VGK, so I think both are talented and "know what to do". But Brian seems bolder and more direct, which frankly feels better than the way George used to handle things.

Patrick will simply NOT relinquish control now....at age 72 or whatever....so a new GM seems like a waste of time. The new GM would have a much higher learning curve, and candidly may be just as handcuffed as George or Brian, but with the "newness" curve to deal with. No Thanks.

Patrick will need to run his course. And maybe get more aggressive in his twilight years. Here's to hoping that happens.

Even if this scenario is plausible, and it seems so to me, you can look at MacLellan’s actual record of moves and come away less than inspired. Take away potential front office ranglings AND the draft (because it too early to call) and you STILL have an uneven series of trades, FA signings and contract negotiations. Plus his deadlines have been atrocious. Simply saying he’s been more “direct” than McPhee, whatever that means, doesn’t cover up for his failures across the board imo. Look, he hasn’t been a train wreck but he hasn’t been a savior either. All in all he’s been average. Either he has to improve or we need someone better if the plan is to win the Stanley Cup. It’s a very tall order, but simply filling seats at Verizon and lining Ted’s pockets is no great accomplishment especially since he inherited GMGMs overall strong roster and ... Ovechkin. You or I could have done that pretty easily and I’m not even kidding.
 
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Ridley Simon

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Even if this scenario is plausible, and it seems so to me, you can look at McClellan’s actual record of moves and come away less than inspired. Take away potential front office ranglings AND the draft (because it too early to call) and you STILL have an uneven series of trades, FA signings and contract negotiations. Plus his deadlines have been atrocious. Simply saying he’s been more “direct” than McPhee, whatever that means, doesn’t cover up for his failures across the board imo. Look, he hasn’t been a train wreck but he hasn’t been a savior either. All in all he’s been average. Either he has to improve or we need someone better if the plan is to win the Stanley Cup. It’s a very tall order, but simply filling seats at Verizon and lining Ted’s pockets is no great accomplishment especially since he inherited GMGMs overall strong roster and ... Ovechkin. You or I could have done that pretty easily and I’m not even kidding.

We just wont see eye to eye here.

All I know, is that someone (GMBM, Trotz...Patrick?) took a team that was coming off 2 mediocre seasons (strike shortened loss in 1st round, and then playoffs missed), and was trending downwards. They turned them into a surprising near miss ECF team (losing that dreaded 3-1 lead to the Rags), and the 2 straight Prez Cup teams (a feat done only a few times in the modern era). So....I personally would call that a heckuva turn around, and a fast one.

They happens to coincide with GMBM's (and Trotz) 1st 3 seasons. I guess its totally *nutso!!* to give the GM credit for that?

Hence, he is average at best.:dunno:
 

CapitalsCupReality

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It's so easy to look back at a decision that didn't pan out and spew **** like this now.

Go back to the Shattenkirk trade thread and just about everyone was praising GMBM for this move. It's crazy how now it's such a big problem for people around here.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threa...1st-2019-cond-2nd-sanford-and-malone.2195933/

That’s kinda not true. People had concerns. I thought it was too steep a price. I guess you did type “Almost everyone”....
 

Bananas

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We just wont see eye to eye here.

All I know, is that someone (GMBM, Trotz...Patrick?) took a team that was coming off 2 mediocre seasons (strike shortened loss in 1st round, and then playoffs missed), and was trending downwards. They turned them into a surprising near miss ECF team (losing that dreaded 3-1 lead to the Rags), and the 2 straight Prez Cup teams (a feat done only a few times in the modern era). So....I personally would call that a heckuva turn around, and a fast one.

They happens to coincide with GMBM's (and Trotz) 1st 3 seasons. I guess its totally *nutso!!* to give the GM credit for that?

Hence, he is average at best.:dunno:

There is no “correct” answer here because the situation is still playing itself out. Those two garbage years we were coming off of were under...who? Adam Oates? The guy was an epic failure and GMGM was still icing a pretty miserable defense. Karlzner and at the very end Orlov turned out to be practically the only quality defensemen he brought in over his entire 17 year tenure. Yeah GMGM refused to address the D over and over. His time had more than run it’s course and he deserved to be let go.

MacLellan deserves high marks for immediately addressing one our most glaring organizational holes by bringing in Orpik/Niskanen. Another obvious one, coach, was filled by ownership. The third, 2C, was filled by the maturation of Kuznetsov. He then turned in his finest hour and got Oshie/Williams to flush out secondary scoring at value. Look, MacLellan came out of the gates and gave Trotz an enhanced roster for three years and deserves a lot of credit for that window.

But where are we now? Schmidt gone, Oshie signed for 8, Orpik still on the roster. The two best defenders this year? Orlov and Carlson, both McPhee draft picks. The two best forwards? Wilson and Ovechkin. McPhee guys. The talent MacLellan has brought in has already peaked (Niskanen, Oshie), is a current or future salary albatross (Orpik, Oshie), is TBD (draft picks), is meh (Connolly, DSP, Chiasson etc) or is no longer with the team (Williams). The best player rn who’s a MacClellan guy is Eller. A good guy and solid player but that’s it. I’m hoping Oshie and Niskanen bounce back but over the last year I think the cracks have started to form in Brian’s luster. The next offseason will be crucial. If McClellan aces it I’ll gladly change my tune. After taking a look at the entire package now on display, I’m gonna go out on a limb and say it’s probably not gonna turn out particularly well.

But yeah I’ve more than said my piece so I guess let’s just check out what happens....
 
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Ridley Simon

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There is no “correct” answer here because the situation is still playing itself out. Those two garbage years we were coming off of were under...who? Adam Oates? The guy was an epic failure and GMGM was still icing a pretty miserable defense. Karlzner and at the very end Orlov turned out to be practically the only quality defensemen he brought in over his entire 17 year tenure. Yeah GMGM refused to address the D over and over. His time had more than run it’s course and he deserved to be let go.

McClellan deserves high marks for immediately addressing one our most glaring organizational holes by bringing in Orpik/Niskanen. Another obvious one, coach, was filled by ownership. The third, 2C, was filled by the maturation of Kuznetsov. He then turned in his finest hour and got Oshie/Williams to flush out secondary scoring at value. Look, McClellan came out of the gates and gave Trotz an enhanced roster for three years and deserves a lot of credit for that window.

But where are we now? Schmidt gone, Oshie signed for 8, Orpik still on the roster. The two best defenders this year? Orlov and Carlson, both McPhee draft picks. The two best forwards? Wilson and Ovechkin. McPhee guys. The talent McClellan has brought in has already peaked (Niskanen, Oshie), is a current or future salary albatross (Orpik, Oshie), is TBD (draft picks), is meh (Connolly, DSP, Chiasson etc) or is no longer with the team (Williams). The best player rn who’s a McClellan guy is Eller. A good guy and solid player but that’s it. I’m hoping Oshie and Niskanen bounce back but over the last year I think the cracks have started to form in Brian’s luster. The next offseason will be crucial. If McClellan aces it I’ll gladly change my tune. After taking a look at the entire package now on display, I’m gonna go out on a limb and say it’s probably not gonna turn out particularly well.

But yeah I’ve more than said my piece so I guess let’s just check out what happens....

And for better or for worse (we all assume “worse”, yes?), this year has not been fully written. Book is only 66% over.
 

Calicaps

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Going all in was the right move and that costs. Shattenkirk was the consensus best option so I still think it was good move by GMBM. That said, a better GM doesn't just go for the consensus guy but rather makes a deal for a player--maybe not a rental--that suits the team more.
 
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Brian23

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But where are we now? Schmidt gone,

This was bad.

Oshie signed for 8, Orpik still on the roster.

I mean the first you can't call bad till a few years from now. You're projecting a possible scenario and calling it fact. The second, while bad has less to do with GMBM and more to do with Trotz. While the 5 million would still be annoying, GMBM isn't the guy who's trotting 44's decaying body out their night after night and has in fact gone out of his way to give Trotz options with which to replace him with.

The two best defenders this year? Orlov and Carlson, both McPhee draft picks.

Well this is cherry picking at it's finest. Orlov did almost nothing until Trotz came here, and I love Dmitry. Carlson is also having a career year but every year he's been here it's been a consensus that Niskanen has been our best defender. He got hurt this year and has been off and suddenly that was an awful signing?

The two best forwards? Wilson and Ovechkin.

Wilson has taken a giant upswing, but almost all of his development has been while Trotz and GMBM have been at the helm. You also seem to ignore Vrana who's been outstanding (and a GMBM pick).

You're really gonna tout the Generational Talent as some giant win for GMGM, or knock on GMBM?

The talent McClellan has brought in has already peaked (Niskanen, Oshie), is a current or future salary albatross (Orpik, Oshie), is TBD (draft picks), is meh (Connolly, DSP, Chiasson etc) or is no longer with the team (Williams).

So you're making assumptions off two guys who were injured, making a projection and stating it was fact with Oshie, calling a conract with one more year an albatross, assuming his draft picks are gonna be awful, knocking depth players (who're definitly better then what we've trotted out before under GMGM's trash dives), and then knocking him because he didn't wanna sign the 36 year old to a 12 million dollar deal?

The best player rn who’s a McClellan guy is Eller. A good guy and solid player but that’s it. I’m hoping Oshie and Niskanen bounce back but over the last year I think the cracks have started to form in Brian’s luster. The next offseason will be crucial. If McClellan aces it I’ll gladly change my tune. After taking a look at the entire package now on display, I’m gonna go out on a limb and say it’s probably not gonna turn out particularly well.

No, you're making assumptions based on slanted observations and going even further to state those assumptions as fact. The only thing one can knock GMBM on, without reproach, was his handling of the Expansion Draft. Literally every other move has been defensable, if not a good move. GMBM has been a good GM in his time here. Every time we've had a whole or an issue he's done whatever he can to address it, something we've been calling for for years and suddenly he's awful? Get out of here with that nonesense.

Oh, and you also seem to ignore that GMBM has been here when guys like Wilson, Orlov, and Carlson were drafted. Apparently he doesn't get any kudos for that.
 

g00n

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Going all in was the right move and that costs. Shattenkirk was the consensus best option so I still think it was good move by GMBM. That said, a better GM doesn't just go for the consensus guy but rather makes a deal for a player--maybe not a rental--that suits the team more.

gmbm even got testimonials from players before pulling the trigger. It's not like he just took a flyer on an expensive unknown that was off the board. KS was the #1 TDL target for a lot of teams. gmbm got a win by landing that deal.

At some point we have to start asking why KS didn't produce like he should have, and that's on him and the coaches.
 
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Langway

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Oh, and you also seem to ignore that GMBM has been here when guys like Wilson, Orlov, and Carlson were drafted. Apparently he doesn't get any kudos for that.
If anything that strengthens Mahoney's hand as the organizational powerhouse and not MacLellan. It's not like he was responsible for those picks when he was on the pro scouting side of things.

MacLellan's adds after four years to the current roster: Niskanen, Oshie, Orpik, Eller and a bunch of depth players basically (Connolly included). Vrana is his lone pick on the team and, again, a large part of whatever credit deserved for that also should go to Mahoney. Is that really so bold? Williams moved on and he went after Shattenkirk but it's not that much substantive turnover. He had cap space and used it his first year. He's made two significant trades with the Blues. He acquired a 3C Montreal had been trying to move for a while it seemed like. For the past two seasons they've been capped out to do anything more in FA and made no real significant alterations to a core that hasn't been able to get it done. They may wind up similarly capped out this summer depending on the eventual cap number, the numbers given to Carlson+Wilson and what happens with Holtby. I don't tend to think Holtby will go anywhere just yet, in part because even if Grubauer holds on to the starter spot there looks to be a rather soft goaltender market next summer. Would Buffalo be a fit? It's just about the only non-divisional team that really needs one. A case could be made for Arizona given Raanta's durability questions but that's about it at the moment. That's not great in trying to drum up a strong market to the point where IMO it's likely they get enough value back to toss aside a sort of iconic player for them in short order. Cap space would be one of the biggest assets gained but, I mean, I doubt they'd spend that overly well anyway.

MacLellon easily meets the Leonsis Standard of being vaguely capable but there's still a lot of room for growth all-around and he doesn't seem like he's definitely getting better at it. He does seem to know where the league is headed and some of the changes needed but there still seems to be a disconnect between idea and action toward developing further in a lot of areas.
 

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