Brian MacLellan's tenure as GM of the Washington Capitals (UPD: rumor agreed to multi-year extens)

twabby

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Just as an aside: I don't think the Capitals should be afraid to trade in division if the value is good enough. Carolina and the Islanders ought to be in the market for a #1 goaltender, on top of the other teams you mentioned. Perhaps these teams might lowball the Capitals since they are in the same division, but I wouldn't exclude these teams as possible trade candidates outright.
 
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um

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Just as an aside: I don't think the Capitals should be afraid to trade in division if the value is good enough. Carolina and the Islanders ought to be in the market for a #1 goaltender, on top of the other teams you mentioned. Perhaps these teams might lowball the Capitals since they are in the same division, but I wouldn't exclude these teams as possible trade candidates outright.

having a not trading within the division rule is an incredibly stupid rule that can only hurt you. It's one of the dumbest thing NHL teams do.
 
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txpd

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having a not trading within the division rule is an incredibly stupid rule that can only hurt you. It's one of the dumbest thing NHL teams do.

Yea, just think if McPhee had traded Forsberg to the Flyers. Just when you think that thing couldn't be worse, there you are. Trading within your conference isn't much different and the Caps do that. Trading Johansson inside the division wouldn't be dangerous. Trading Holtby or a Tom Wilson or someone like that....Backstrom...Is an entirely different story
 

Langway

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If the value is good enough...maybe. But what's enough? The NYI or CGY first rounder+? Domi+? I'd be surprised if they lined something like this up in the off-season in short order. It can't be ruled out because IINM Grubauer will be a pending UFA after next season so the time is now to make a decision. But I don't think we can rule out them just extending Grubauer for another season and waiting to make that call. We'll see how they finish up but they don't tend to sour on key players quickly at all.
 

um

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Yea, just think if McPhee had traded Forsberg to the Flyers. Just when you think that thing couldn't be worse, there you are. Trading within your conference isn't much different and the Caps do that. Trading Johansson inside the division wouldn't be dangerous. Trading Holtby or a Tom Wilson or someone like that....Backstrom...Is an entirely different story

trades usually involve assets going both ways, if we get more than Erat back from Philly than I do it 100 times out of 100.

Hell Nashville may offer even more once they find out the Flyers are about to fleece us. The bigger the market the more we get.
 
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twabby

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If the value is good enough...maybe. But what's enough? The NYI or CGY first rounder+? Domi+? I'd be surprised if they lined something like this up in the off-season in short order. It can't be ruled out because IINM Grubauer will be a pending UFA after next season so the time is now to make a decision. But I don't think we can rule out them just extending Grubauer for another season and waiting to make that call. We'll see how they finish up but they don't tend to sour on key players quickly at all.

I don't know what the exact value should be for either Grubauer or Holtby. I'm just saying if Carolina, for example, comes knocking with a fair deal and a better deal than Arizona or Buffalo for instance they shouldn't say no just because they are in the same division.

Particularly Carolina seems like a team that will be desperate for a goaltender and might be willing to part with significant assets. They lack scoring too but goaltending has crippled them season after season and with a new GM and owner they could look to make a big move to keep fans interested and to make their mark.
 

um

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If the value is good enough...maybe. But what's enough? The NYI or CGY first rounder+? Domi+? I'd be surprised if they lined something like this up in the off-season in short order. It can't be ruled out because IINM Grubauer will be a pending UFA after next season so the time is now to make a decision. But I don't think we can rule out them just extending Grubauer for another season and waiting to make that call. We'll see how they finish up but they don't tend to sour on key players quickly at all.

if Grubauer is a UFA next offseason than he will lose 90% of his value. I can't recall many UFA backups returning anything worthwhile.
 

um

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I don't know what the exact value should be for either Grubauer or Holtby. I'm just saying if Carolina, for example, comes knocking with a fair deal and a better deal than Arizona or Buffalo for instance they shouldn't say no just because they are in the same division.

Given the new owner it seems like they want to have some success soon. They look like a prime candidate to give up a 1st round pick plus a prospect for Holtby.

Grubauer will probably be looked as another Darling for the Canes. Most NHL teams will probably have that on the back of their mind when we're trying to trade one of our goalies.
 

Corby78

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If I’m running the show I’m getting rid of one of them this offseason. With our next goalie moving up the ranks and grubs contract, the time is now. I would shop both, see what teams are interested and what the offers are. Make the best deal for long term based on the market.
 

Langway

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Grubauer will probably be looked as another Darling for the Canes. Most NHL teams will probably have that on the back of their mind when we're trying to trade one of our goalies.
It really depends on how both goalies finish the season. Grubauer's advantages are that he's younger and likely to be cheaper to both acquire and extend for the next few seasons. That could be more attractive to rebuilding clubs looking for someone they could rebuild around.

It still seems more likely they'd sell high on Grubauer this summer given the timing, with Holtby put on notice as Samsonov enters the system. I get the value of going cheaper/younger at the position but their typical mentality suggests that going with Grubauer/Samsonov is likely too risky for them. It would take either someone blowing them out of the water with an offer on Holtby or Grubauer having a monster playoff run.
 

um

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It really depends on how both goalies finish the season. Grubauer's advantages are that he's younger and likely to be cheaper to both acquire and extend for the next few seasons. That could be more attractive to rebuilding clubs looking for someone they could rebuild around.

It still seems more likely they'd sell high on Grubauer this summer given the timing, with Holtby put on notice as Samsonov enters the system. I get the value of going cheaper/younger at the position but their typical mentality suggests that going with Grubauer/Samsonov is likely too risky for them. It would take either someone blowing them out of the water with an offer on Holtby or Grubauer having a monster playoff run.

It does also save us cap room to resign Carlson. Plus our prospect pool is so weak and trading Holtby could drastically help that, while trading Grubauer may just get us a meh prospect.
 

Ridley Simon

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I don't know what the exact value should be for either Grubauer or Holtby. I'm just saying if Carolina, for example, comes knocking with a fair deal and a better deal than Arizona or Buffalo for instance they shouldn't say no just because they are in the same division.

Particularly Carolina seems like a team that will be desperate for a goaltender and might be willing to part with significant assets. They lack scoring too but goaltending has crippled them season after season and with a new GM and owner they could look to make a big move to keep fans interested and to make their mark.

Arizona just traded for their "#1 Guy" in Kuemper. They also just added Raanta last summer. They arent going to add a 6m G unless we give him away. They are not a fit, gang....but there are a LOT of options that you guys are not talking about.

Rangers (Lundqvist is ancient)
Senators (depending on ownership)
Hurricanes (as mentioned)
Islanders (as mentioned)
Canucks (Markstrom has struggled)
Sharks (Jones is ok, but they like marquee players)
Avalanche (they seem ready to move on from Varlamov)
Blues (Allen is another stopgap)
Red Wings (Howard is not good, Mrazek is gone)
Sabres (as mentioned)
Oilers (Talbot? please....)

One never know what the Jets, Flames, Flyers, or Maple Leafs will do if they flame out fast in the playoffs.

If the Caps "put Holtby out there", they would have a lot of teams biting. Looks what Fleury has done for VGK. Holtby could be seen as "Instant Relevance" for a lot of those teams.
 

Alexander the Gr8

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Just for information, Holtby has a modified NTC. He can list 7 teams to which he cannot be traded. Forget trading him to Arizona, Detroit etc.
 

Langway

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One never know what the Jets, Flames, Flyers, or Maple Leafs will do if they flame out fast in the playoffs.
The Flames may not make it anyway and I doubt Winnipeg or Toronto throw their guy under the bus at this stage. Both are still probably a year or two from really hitting their stride as contenders anyway. The problem with most of these teams you've listed is that even if they are motivated to move on they still have the financial commitment on the books. They'd be looking at $10-11M spent on goaltending or a buyout or orchestrating getting a third team involved to take their old option.

I don't think Kuemper is the new #1 in Arizona. I don't think they have that player and don't seem willing to fully invest there yet. Maybe Holtby makes some teams reconsider but I'd tend to strike oout NYR/SJS/OTT at the very least. The Blues could either extend Hutton and give him some run or turn to Husso. Jones just signed a six-year extension. I think many of these softer situations like VAN where Markstrom remains on the books for another two seasons make a better fit for Grubauer given his youth and lower AAV. I don't doubt you'd have teams interested in Holtby but would the market be strong enough to warrant it? I'm not so sure whereas I think it's much more likely their perceived price is met on Grubauer. Grubauer could change his standing in the org. though, so we'll see what happens.
 

Ridley Simon

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The Flames may not make it anyway and I doubt Winnipeg or Toronto throw their guy under the bus at this stage. Both are still probably a year or two from really hitting their stride as contenders anyway. The problem with most of these teams you've listed is that even if they are motivated to move on they still have the financial commitment on the books. They'd be looking at $10-11M spent on goaltending or a buyout or orchestrating getting a third team involved to take their old option.

I don't think Kuemper is the new #1 in Arizona. I don't think they have that player and don't seem willing to fully invest there yet. Maybe Holtby makes some teams reconsider but I'd tend to strike oout NYR/SJS/OTT at the very least. The Blues could either extend Hutton and give him some run or turn to Husso. Jones just signed a six-year extension. I think many of these softer situations like VAN where Markstrom remains on the books for another two seasons make a better fit for Grubauer given his youth and lower AAV. I don't doubt you'd have teams interested in Holtby but would the market be strong enough to warrant it? I'm not so sure whereas I think it's much more likely their perceived price is met on Grubauer. Grubauer could change his standing in the org. though, so we'll see what happens.

When was the last time a recent Vezina G was traded? Ryan Miller (4 years after his win?)

You cant use your above logic on this, as its not exactly a situation that we've run into often....looks like once in 14-15 years. Holtby being on the block, a scant 2 season after his Vezina (and with his playoff statistics being a big "bonus") is not a guy you can say would *not* supplant most G's on any teams roster. Having a G on the books isnt some non starter for these teams, as G's move around ALL the TIME.

If you dont think Winnipeg or Toronto would move on from Hellebuyck or Andersen after a 1st round flameout, then we dont have much to discuss with that. I will just disagree with you.

There's also Minnesota to think about, as well as Chicago. I didnt mention the Blackhawks earlier as their salary structure would probably prevent it, but if they move on from Seabrook, its possible too.
 
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Langway

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If you dont think Winnipeg or Toronto would move on from Hellebuyck or Andersen after a 1st round flameout, then we dont have much to discuss with that. I will just disagree with you.
Fair enough. Let's see how that plays out with Toronto in particular given the likelihood that they'll draw Boston in the first round. I doubt there's going to be significant fallout if they lose that series, particularly unconditionally in that it would fall on goaltending. It's their defense that likely needs further tweaks. Even if Winnipeg flames out early, again, I think they're still a team that needs another year or two of maturation. They ought to be able to handle Minnesota but I don't think they get past Nashville yet. So I don't consider those potential panic situations really. The same goes for the Flyers and Flames. The Flyers have more uncertainty at the position but it's hard to argue any GM is going to substantially deviate from their overall plan based on one playoff result. Most teams don't operate that way and aren't that excessively focused in it being a make-or-break season. I'd also doubt Minnesota and Chicago as serious option. My main point is: how often do we see teams with two $5M+ goaltenders on their roster? Goalies move but big contracts move less easily. Dallas has paid up for two and that's all that comes to mind for any duration. Some of those teams do have their current guy's contract expiring after next season so it's possible as a short-term thing but it is a complication.

In Washington's favor, though, when it comes to either Holtby or Grubauer is that there may not be any highly capable alternatives available. Carter Hutton could be the closest thing in UFA and that's a stretch. Otherwise, there aren't many heir apparent types right on the cusp. Does Khudobin carry that much value and would Boston move him? What about Zane McIntyre? Nashville may have one with Saros for the right offer but otherwise the Caps may have the market pretty much cornered if they do want to be aggressive. As-is Grubauer ought to be able to net a high second rounder plus and are now in a position to perhaps only strengthen the case to other teams that he's starter material.

The biggest impediment, though, when it comes to Holtby being the one moved is him being a high profile player and they don't tend to just usher them out of the organization after one subpar season.
 

g00n

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Jose Theodore won the Vezina in 01-02 and was traded 3 seasons later (lockout interrupted).

Tim Thomas won in 2011 and played one more season with the Bruins.

Vezina winning goaltenders don't get traded not because of the trophy, but because they're usually consistent enough that their stats don't totally crater all of a sudden, with a few exceptions. It's rare that a fly by night goaltender shows up and just dominates the league for one year.

I don't see gmbm trading Holtby, or being very big on dumping just about any of his "core" contracts.
 

Empty Goal Net

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...The biggest impediment, though, when it comes to Holtby being the one moved is him being a high profile player and they don't tend to just usher them out of the organization after one subpar season.
If the hockey guys in the Caps' front office (including GMBM and the professional scouts) conclude that Gruby is THE guy to retain - admittedly, not a highly likely scenario - then they have the task of convincing Ted and Dick that moving Holtby is in the team's best interest. That case, imo, has to be made in the context of a) return and b) opportunity cost (i.e., salary cap). Regarding return, trading Holtby can be made more palatable if the Caps get decent player(s)/pick(s) back. And that requires dance partners who are willing to meet asking price and bid against one another. Re. opportunity cost, if shedding Holtby's contract means fewer $$ committed to the GK position, it also means more $$ available to re-sign Carlson and/or acquire a 1D or other needed player. I have no doubt that the Ted and Dick calculation also involves marketing-related factors - ticket and jersey sales, franchise identity (not in the playing style sense, more in the casual fan awareness sense) - that Langway references. They just don't seem to be able/willing to move on until it's too late - and even after they do, oftentimes the player returns for a farewell tour (as player or coach).

Then again, it's possible that a bona fide hockey trade could happen. Maybe a Holtby/Karlsson swap also involving some picks & prospects?
 

Ridley Simon

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Jose Theodore won the Vezina in 01-02 and was traded 3 seasons later (lockout interrupted).

Tim Thomas won in 2011 and played one more season with the Bruins.

Vezina winning goaltenders don't get traded not because of the trophy, but because they're usually consistent enough that their stats don't totally crater all of a sudden, with a few exceptions. It's rare that a fly by night goaltender shows up and just dominates the league for one year.

I don't see gmbm trading Holtby, or being very big on dumping just about any of his "core" contracts.

Correct, which is why I stated "once in 14/15 years"...Theodore was 16 years ago.

Thomas was an FA, I believe....who was rather unconventional when it came to his thought process. And Boston had Rask.

So again....were the Caps to make Holtby "available", I think the notion that he'd have few landing spots (IE, few suitors) is laughable. I think the Caps would have 15-20 inquiries from teams. Does that mean a bidding war? I don't know. But its not 2-3 teams, like some are openly stating.
 

Langway

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I think the Caps would have 15-20 inquiries from teams. Does that mean a bidding war? I don't know. But its not 2-3 teams, like some are openly stating.
There's an awful lot of middle ground between two to three serious and obvious fits and 15-20 "inquiries." You can expand or inflate the perceived interest as much as you'd like but it would still likely boil down to about a handful when it really comes down to it. It also depends in part on their ask. If they're just giving him away for the cap space then, sure, there would be a lot of interest but they're very likely going to want either quality futures or a really good roster player. I doubt 20 teams would make serious inquiries beyond kicking tires. Mostly, this isn't Hasek we're talking about here and it's not like they would be selling high either. Jose Theodore was traded for...David Aebischer. That's not the type of deal Washington would be after (a cap dump basically). Before that you've got to go back to Patrick Roy to find a Vezina winner traded in a legit hockey trade and there were very clear reasons as to why with the player wanting out. The precedent isn't really there league-wide, nor would I expect this front office to be the ones that blaze that trail.

The timing lends itself more to the possibility that Grubauer attracts a stronger market given a likely smaller ask (more along the lines of the Jones/Schneider returns), his stronger play this season, his youth and lower cap hit as a speculative #1 option for teams that are in between solutions.
 

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