Brayden Schenn Part II

[Striiker]

Michael Raffl is a 3rd line player, he doesn't belong on top line for 82 games.

Except he's not.

 

[SchennSational1022*]

The stats don't support that claim at all.

Your argument for this is what? Do you have any factual data to prove that he shouldn't be playing with Giroux/Voracek? Just because you have a 1st line player (production wise) doesn't mean you should actually use them on the 1st line.

The stats, you mean his high sh% and being placed with 2 top players . I found myself being frustrated with him killing a lot of their time in the zone, he's just not skilled enough to play with them. I don't care what his Corsi says, the eye test shows me he shouldn't be on that line. He's a 3rd liner IMO. I am a believer in advanced stats too FWIW.

 

[Curufinwe]

A 3rd liner who led his team in ES goals by a significant margin. Four more than Simmonds despite getting 160 fewer minutes.

http://www.nhl.com/stats/player?fet...rd=desc&sort=evenStrengthGoals&viewName=goals

BSchenn was placed with the same top two players at ES and didn't produce anywhere near as well as Raffl did.

Last year he produced more and had better possession stats playing with Giroux and Voracek than Hartnell did.

 

[pinedak]

The stats, you mean his high sh% and being placed with 2 top players . I found myself being frustrated with him killing a lot of their time in the zone, he's just not skilled enough to play with them. I don't care what his Corsi says, the eye test shows me he shouldn't be on that line. He's a 3rd liner IMO. I am a believer in advanced stats too FWIW.

You should get your eyes checked then. He will pot 25-30 next year with proper ice time. The "problem" is he isn't flashy. He doesn't wow you like you want him to. He just produces.

 

[Lindberg]

The stats, you mean his high sh% and being placed with 2 top players . I found myself being frustrated with him killing a lot of their time in the zone, he's just not skilled enough to play with them. I don't care what his Corsi says, the eye test shows me he shouldn't be on that line. He's a 3rd liner IMO. I am a believer in advanced stats too FWIW.

Since your eye balls don't seem to be functioning properly, when I said these stats I mean these.

At 5v5

1st in the league for FFrel among LW's of 845 min or more
3rd in league of Corsirel among LW's of 845 min or more
1st line production for g/60
2nd line production in p/60
3rd in league in Relscoring chances among LW's of 845 min or more
14th in Corsi for of 845 min or more
7.27 ZS%

All of that in 65 games and at 1.1 million AAV. You find me someone better for the money that Philly could actually acquire and i'll buy you lunch.

Considering he scored almost 30 points in 67 games with very little power play time that is pretty decent. It wouldn't surprise me if he played in Schenn's #1 PP spot that he would be around 50 points. Believe whatever you like but Raffl is the best solution to the #1 LW spot for the flyers with the cap unless they pull off a king's ransom for another player.

 

[deadhead]

Raffl was just fine on the 1st line, he does the dirty work for them. Could you upgrade? Sure, but not easily, we saw Schenn who is supposedly far more talented struggle in that role. I'd say there are a lot of other areas of improvement they should focus on before expending the resources to upgrade Raffl.

As far as Hartnell, he had a nice bounce back year - the best he's played since he was 26-29. History says it was an anomaly and he'll probably regress back to last year's performance (11 ES goals). He hasn't been a playoff performer since 2010.

He's not a cornerstone player and he wouldn't have made the Flyers a playoff team. He'd have made them a little better in 2014-15, but also would have stuck them with 4 years of declining production.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Raffl's production with zero PP time was pretty surprising. Whether it's a single outlier year remains to be seen. If it's not a complete outlier, even with regression but more PP time, his production still ought to be good.

 

[SchennSational1022*]

Schenn is not a good fit on the top line. My one beef with Schenn seemed that he was never comfortable with the puck on his stick, which is why I thought he'd be a good fit with Jake. It was the exact opposite when he got put with Coots. He wanted the puck more and looked better with it than ever, was skating and making dekes that we haven't seen in years. He is a great fit with Couturier, their games complement each other perfectly. I expect 55-60 points next year from Schenn, with an imporaved defensive game. LEave him with Coots.

I don't really have a problem with Raffl, he can stay on the top line for all I care. Schenn is much better distributor and easily has a better shot than Raffl. Not to mention Schenn's vision is in another ballpark compared to Raffl. He is a good fit for the PP1 spot. He is better at fishing pucks out at the end of the season than I can ever remember. Go look at his pass to Streit on Jake PP blast vs the Pens when he got blown up by Adams. That is what we need from him on the 1st powerplay. Schenn is a big piece moving forward.

 

[Beef Invictus]

I think Raffl's best use on the top line is the way he can get to a puck quickly, and if not winning the battle for it, at least knocking it away from the opposition. If it's 3-5 strides away he gets on top of it fast. A big part of that was due to Raffl being able to read the higher paced play with V and G much better than Schenn. Schenn either couldn't think fast enough to do that, or when he was there he lost the battles. He just seemed overwhelmed.

He looked infinitely more whelmed playing with the more deliberate Couturier.

 

[FlyersFan61290]

Call me crazy but I think Schenn's lack of production with G and on the first pp unit are good things. It means you can give that spot to someone else and squeeze as much offensive production out of that individual while not hampering Schenn's solid production. As he learns his game in the NHL/what works for him at this level and gets stronger with age his numbers will go up. But until then he doesn't need to be with All-Star players in order to put up top line winger numbers (25th among both LW and RW in pts).

 

[Striiker]

Call me crazy but I think Schenn's lack of production with G and on the first pp unit are good things. It means you can give that spot to someone else and squeeze as much offensive production out of that individual while not hampering Schenn's solid production. As he learns his game in the NHL/what works for him at this level and gets stronger with age his numbers will go up. But until then he doesn't need to be with All-Star players in order to put up top line winger numbers (25th among both LW and RW in pts).

Not only does he not need to be with allstars, he's better without them.

Giroux and Voracek were just holding him back

 

[Beef Invictus]

Not only does he not need to be with allstars, he's better without them.

Giroux and Voracek were just holding him back

Agreed, he should file his retirement papers and seek a new life among the spiders.

 

[Larry44]

Raffl's production with zero PP time was pretty surprising. Whether it's a single outlier year remains to be seen. If it's not a complete outlier, even with regression but more PP time, his production still ought to be good.

Raffl just keeps getting better. Really, one of my favorite Flyers for the last two years. Plays and produces everywhere. Fast, tough, hits, has skill and is learning to score more too. What's not to like? Bellemare may also make some more progress next year.

Can't wait to see who the scouts have in mind this year? Is there potential top 4 Dman blooming late in Europe somewhere?

 

[Striiker]

Agreed, he should file his retirement papers and seek a new life among the spiders.

Beef pls

 

[Beef Invictus]

Can't wait to see who the scouts have in mind this year? Is there potential top 4 Dman blooming late in Europe somewhere?

This guy Erik Gustafsson supposedly had a pretty strong season in the KHL.

 

[Striiker]

This guy Erik Gustafsson supposedly had a pretty strong season in the KHL.

He's no Grossmann.

 

[renberg]

I think Raffl's best use on the top line is the way he can get to a puck quickly, and if not winning the battle for it, at least knocking it away from the opposition. If it's 3-5 strides away he gets on top of it fast. A big part of that was due to Raffl being able to read the higher paced play with V and G much better than Schenn. Schenn either couldn't think fast enough to do that, or when he was there he lost the battles. He just seemed overwhelmed.

He looked infinitely more whelmed playing with the more deliberate Couturier.

Good post. G and Jake are Ferraris on the ice both with their speed of movement as well as the way that they see things on the ice. Often Schenn just got in the way of what they were doing. Raffl can keep up with them.

 

[JayRosehillMVP]

I think Raffl's best use on the top line is the way he can get to a puck quickly, and if not winning the battle for it, at least knocking it away from the opposition. If it's 3-5 strides away he gets on top of it fast. A big part of that was due to Raffl being able to read the higher paced play with V and G much better than Schenn. Schenn either couldn't think fast enough to do that, or when he was there he lost the battles. He just seemed overwhelmed.

He looked infinitely more whelmed playing with the more deliberate Couturier.

Good post. G and Jake are Ferraris on the ice both with their speed of movement as well as the way that they see things on the ice. Often Schenn just got in the way of what they were doing. Raffl can keep up with them.

Bingo. It's not even a knock on B.Schenn, he's just not the right fit. I'm a big Raffl supporter and I'm more than comfortable with him as our 1LW. That's a non issue imo. A guy with a comparable skill set to our big guns is just going to take away from the time they have the puck. Raffl is the perfect compliment.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Yeah, I haven't noticed a real palpable speed difference in-game between the two players, but raffl decides where to go much quicker so he gets there.

 

[Tripod]

This summer, Hextall should be offering Raffl a nice little security contract before he plays the whole year on the top line and we can't afford him.

Offer him a 3year deal worth 2 million per and then hope for the next 4 years we get "Burrows" like production with the Sedins.

Plus, he is effective on any line we use him on and can even play C if we run into injury issues.

 

[Origina1Master]

This summer, Hextall should be offering Raffl a nice little security contract before he plays the whole year on the top line and we can't afford him.

Offer him a 3year deal worth 2 million per and then hope for the next 4 years we get "Burrows" like production with the Sedins.

Plus, he is effective on any line we use him on and can even play C if we run into injury issues.

This would be awesome. Raffl is very underrated and a huge asset to this team. Plus he's not a complete ****** bag unlike Burrows.

 

[Larry44]

This guy Erik Gustafsson supposedly had a pretty strong season in the KHL.

No, we need someone good enough to be an NHL regular.

 

[Beef Invictus]

No, we need someone good enough to be an NHL regular.

He was, we just had a coach too stupid for the job.

 

[Rebels57]

He was, we just had a coach too stupid for the job.

That's a bingo!

 

[Flyotes]

This summer, Hextall should be offering Raffl a nice little security contract before he plays the whole year on the top line and we can't afford him.

Offer him a 3year deal worth 2 million per and then hope for the next 4 years we get "Burrows" like production with the Sedins.

Plus, he is effective on any line we use him on and can even play C if we run into injury issues.