Speculation: Brayden Point Mega Thread

[Dekes For Days]

That's probably more true when the player has put up real stats. Like, if a player has scored 50 goals, and has a G/PG to suggest he hasn't fall off that pace, it means more than if a player can put up the pace, but has never actually done it.

These are real stats. It's what happened. It does not mean more when a player does it over a smaller sample compared to this bigger sample.

You didn't like what the 3 year sample showed, so I gave you the 2 year sample you asked for. You didn't like what goals showed, so I gave you points. You wanted other players, so I gave you other players. Now all you do is complain about the stats used, which you clearly don't understand.

 

[DFC]

Interesting. Johnson was my first guess but Cirelli might have it in him.

What’s the top 6 lineups look like with Andy without Point?

Part of it is Johnson had a very solid season on the wing. But Cirelli looks like he's capable of more than 39 points, and his defense is close, if not on par, with Point's. (I saw one forecast magazine picked him for the Selke, which I think is a stretch, but still an indication that he's in that realm.)

This is just a guess:

Johnson - Point - Kucherov (90% chance they stay together if Point signs, at least to start)
Palat - Stamkos - Cirelli (we're seeing this line in pre-season)

And without:

Gourde - Johnson - Kucherov
Palat - Stamkos - Cirelli


Or something like:

Palat - Stamkos - Kucherov
Johnson - Cirelli - Gourde

...Or, finally:

Palat - Johnson - Kucherov (Triplet reunion, which we've also seen)
Gourde - Stamkos - Cirelli

...

This is all assuming Cirelli is in the top-six either way (not a given) and that Gourde is the guy who comes up if Point doesn't sign (also not a given). Could easily be someone like Joseph, or even the rookie, Volkov.

 

[DFC]

These are real stats. It's what happened. It does not mean more when a player does it over a smaller sample compared to this bigger sample.

You didn't like what the 3 year sample showed, so I gave you the 2 year sample you asked for. You didn't like what goals showed, so I gave you points. You wanted other players, so I gave you other players. Now all you do is complain about the stats used, which you clearly don't understand.

Except those goals a player is on pace for do not actually count in games.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

This is according to cap friendly and Marc methot. Who had the same contract in ottawa transferred to Dallas.

So you agree this can happen in reverse?

A player in a tax-free state has their (lol) entire tax advantage subtracted out of their contract value (as a benefit to billionaires)... and then gets traded to a high tax location?

Seems like it's ENTIRELY a NO risk, ALL reward perk for the TEAM, and the player gets NO reward, ALL the risk.

Those players must have pretty horrible agents if they just accept it. "I realize I have a tremendous tax advantage, but I'm just giving it to billionaires".

I'm trying to imagine my current job. Taxes drop in my province by 10%. We rejoice. Then our employers say to us "Due to the recent tax reduction in our Province, we are subtracting 10% off of your overall salary. You "bring-home" pay will remain unchanged."

Yeah, everyone would go for that...

 

[Krewe]

@uncleben

Can you somehow get people to stay on topic? So few of these posts are actually about point. Most are clark34 STILL goin on about taxes, or Dekes trying to tell us how much better Matthews is. I keep checking back expecting to see relevant posts and it's all just troll posts and arguments on what is supposed to be a megathread for info

 

[DFC]

@uncleben

Can you somehow get people to stay on topic? So few of these posts are actually about point. Most are clark34 STILL goin on about taxes, or Dekes trying to tell us how much better Matthews is. I keep checking back expecting to see relevant posts and it's all just troll posts and arguments on what is supposed to be a megathread for info

Yeah. We have to stop arguing with them. If someone mentions Matthews and six disciples show up to preach the gAuspol, we (mainly me) have to be more disciplined in ignoring them and staying... on Point.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Folks, this isn't an Austin Matthews thread. It's one thing to reference him as a comparable but the Matthews discussions are derailing the thread. Let's stay on topic.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Can you somehow get people to stay on topic? So few of these posts are actually about point. Most are Dekes trying to tell us how much better Matthews is.

All I have done is provide multiple pieces of relevant information/statistics comparing Matthews and Point over a given time frame, as requested by a Tampa fan in the context of contract discussions, so I don't appreciate you misrepresenting my involvement here.

 

[Aoko]

Nope he will sign for less. Largely due to the tax scenario.

Maybe, just maybe, Brayden will sign for less because he wants to honor a pact that fellow stars of his caliber have done in the past, and wants to give the best chance to keep the core intact?

Nah, you're right. They only sign cheap, team friendly deals because of the tax advantage. Which is why Florida, Dallas, ETC are capable of getting away with the same shit. Clearly.

 

[Menzinger]

Maybe, just maybe, Brayden will sign for less because he wants to honor a pact that fellow stars of his caliber have done in the past, and wants to give the best chance to keep the core intact?

Nah, you're right. They only sign cheap, team friendly deals because of the tax advantage. Which is why Florida, Dallas, ETC are capable of getting away with the same ****. Clearly.

Is it "honour" why he still hasnt signed?

Season opener getting closer with every passing day....

 

[DFC]

Is it "honour" why he still hasnt signed?

Season opener getting closer with every passing day....

Well, that goes the other way--if the tax break is so awesome, why hasn't he signed?

Took Kucherov a while to sign a bridge too.

They're arguing over money and term. Part of a GM's job.

 

[Aoko]

Well, that goes the other way--if the tax break is so awesome, why hasn't he signed?

Took Kucherov a while to sign a bridge too.

They're arguing over money and term. Part of a GM's job.

Kuch signed in mid October.

This wait is nothing in comparison.

 

[2020 Cup Champions]

Yeah. We have to stop arguing with them. If someone mentions Matthews and six disciples show up to preach the gAuspol, we (mainly me) have to be more disciplined in ignoring them and staying... on Point.

This is the first pun in at least a year that I have actually enjoyed.

 

[Foxtail]

Um.......no he's not.

Um yeah he is

 

[Holymakinaw]

Um yeah he is

LOL. Nah.

There are a bunch more than 10 Centres our there who every GM in the league would take ahead of Aho. His big ONE 80+ point season doesn't make him a top 10 guy. He's somewhere after these guys.

McDavid
Crosby
McKinnon
Stamkos
Tavares
Matthews
Barkov
Bergeron
Point
Seguin
Scheifele
Monahan
Malkin
Kuznetsov
Kopitar
Backstrom
Toews
Pavelski

 

[BeingTheThunder]

Rantanen plays wing, and with the 2nd best player in the world.

He’s amazing but not comparable.

Rantanen does not play with Kucherov...

 

[Merrrlin]

One thing that is becoming hugely obvious is that fans are very willing to call their RFAs top players, but for some reason to do not feel they deserve to be paid that way. Maybe it's a grandfathering of the old days when the kids were paid 5th or 6th most to be the 1st or 2nd best player on the team because they didn't have rights.

 

[DFC]

One thing that is becoming hugely obvious is that fans are very willing to call their RFAs top players, but for some reason to do not feel they deserve to be paid that way. Maybe it's a grandfathering of the old days when the kids were paid 5th or 6th most to be the 1st or 2nd best player on the team because they didn't have rights.

They still don't have rights.

Salaries jump up when multiple teams are bidding for the player. TB has left itself with enough cap to match a realistic offer sheet. Aside from that, the competitive offers are gonna come from Euro league teams.

RFAs still don't have much leverage. Sometimes they pretend they do.

 

[Merrrlin]

They still don't have rights.

Salaries jump up when multiple teams are bidding for the player. TB has left itself with enough cap to match a realistic offer sheet. Aside from that, the competitive offers are gonna come from Euro league teams.

RFAs still don't have much leverage. Sometimes they can pretend they do.

They don't, but they seem to be more aggressive in their negotiations. I don't remember having 10 or so top RFAs unsigned in mid September at any time in the last decade.

 

[DFC]

They don't, but they seem to be more aggressive in their negotiations. I don't remember having 10 or so top RFAs unsigned in mid September at any time in the last decade.

Yup. And they're still just sitting there.

Different GMs are gonna handle the situation differently. It doesn't seem like JBB nor Sakic are going to crack to pressure that doesn't even actually exist.

 

[AndreRoy]

One thing that is becoming hugely obvious is that fans are very willing to call their RFAs top players, but for some reason to do not feel they deserve to be paid that way. Maybe it's a grandfathering of the old days when the kids were paid 5th or 6th most to be the 1st or 2nd best player on the team because they didn't have rights.

Again, it’s because the players chose to give up negotiating power for RFAs in exchange for things like fully guaranteed contracts. Today’s RFAs don’t like that so they’re playing hardball but teams have every right to do the same in return.

You know that those same RFAs who are demanding bigger contracts now wouldn’t be happy if they could later be cut for not living up to them. They can’t have it both ways.

 

[Dekes For Days]

One thing that is becoming hugely obvious is that fans are very willing to call their RFAs top players, but for some reason to do not feel they deserve to be paid that way. Maybe it's a grandfathering of the old days when the kids were paid 5th or 6th most to be the 1st or 2nd best player on the team because they didn't have rights.

It's because people blindly use raw points (often in just the contract year) and don't consider the massive impact of PP time/opportunity on production, so they don't realize how good this batch of RFAs are compared to players of the past who they grew up idolizing for the inflated point totals of the time.

The biggest actual change is RFAs waiting until their ELC is done to sign instead of signing early and massively undervaluing themselves.

 

[junyab]

Just a heads up to everyone that an NHL player's bottom line isn't just based on the income tax of the state or province they live in. There is so much more involved in a professional athletes tax return that people just aren't aware of. The link below explain just one of the very many tactics used to save athletes on the tax they pay.

How pro athletes and other high earners stick-handle high Canadian income taxes

 

[BeingTheThunder]

I am a big fan of the NHL, NFL, and MLB. Why is it that the NHL is the only league where I see so much whining about Florida not having state income taxes??? I don't read this nonsense about the NFL or MLB teams in Florida, so why is it such a big deal to NHL fans? Genuinely curious..

 

[CupsOverCash]

I am a big fan of the NHL, NFL, and MLB. Why is it that the NHL is the only league where I see so much whining about Florida not having state income taxes??? I don't read this nonsense about the NFL or MLB teams in Florida, so why is it such a big deal to NHL fans? Genuinely curious..

I didnt hear about it until Stamkos chose TB over Toronto when everybody "knew" he was going to go to Toronto and that no deal TB could give would be more with the endorsements Toronto could give. Then when Stamkos and Hedman signed for less than many thought they would, "OMG TAXES!!!!"