Player Discussion Brady Tkachuk (LW) I'm a fan.

[JD1]

An interesting thing about message boards is that we don’t have to rely on your recollection of the discussion and can just look back and see what happened:

Part 1: Confirmed with Link: - Alex BURROWS traded to Ottawa for Dahlen | Signed to speculated extension 2x2.5

Part 2: Burrows for Dahlen Part 2 | Rage and Anger Edition

Skimming through those it’s quite evident that the majority of the complaints were about the value the sens got in acquiring him and that a significant portion of posters were complaining about Burrows being done or being a minimal improvement and not warranting an extension.

Yes and that value was attached to the perception of Dahlen which time has shown to be clearly inflated

The perception was ALL we got for Dahlen was Burrows so i suppose you can look at it as Dahlen being perceived highly or Burrows negatively

People were quite angry that we gave Dahlen away

 

[Bileur]

Yes and that value was attached to the perception of Dahlen which time has shown to be clearly inflated

The perception was ALL we got for Dahlen was Burrows so i suppose you can look at it as Dahlen being perceived highly or Burrows negatively

People were quite angry that we gave Dahlen away

Not doubt people were quite angry Dahlen was traded away for a 36 year old bottom six player who was gifted an extension and a NTC. I still think it was piss poor asset management.

That said, my point in this thread is that you said that over time the argument has switched from Dahlen being a good prospect to Burrows being a bad player because people can’t complain now that Dahlen has busted.

This isn’t the case. Plenty of posters complained about Burrows being done, or that he would be terrible during his extension right when the deal happened.

Now you’re moving the goalposts.

 

[JD1]

For prospects you value them based on potential. At that point Dahlen was a recent 2nd round pick who had improved upon his draft season and was one of the best players in his men's league. At worst he was only worth a 2nd rounder at that point and more realistically his value AT THE TIME was a late 1st early 2nd.

Just this season Dorion traded Ennis/ Namestnikov who are much better players than Burrows for a 4th and a 5th. The issue isn't that Dahlen busted it's the value Dorion got for his asset when he was the only one bidding on his target. Not to mention that ridiculous extension.

We could have traded Dahlen for a better player and maybe won a cup or at least gotten a player who could contribute more to the team.

I find it interesting when armchair GMs feel we COULD have got something more for a prospect that amounted to nothing

Something we might consider: Dahlen was traded in February 2017. Elias Peterson was chosen 5th in the 2017 draft. It's kinda likely that more scouts saw Dahlen in 2017 while scouting Peterson than what saw him during the year he was actually drafted. So while stat watchers are looking at it thinking his value was rising maybe scouts were looking at it thinking his value was falling. I mean surely if at that point his perceived value amongst the scouting community was late 1st rounder we would have done better no? And i guess if his value was that high, it only makes his failure to develop that much more of a shocker.

 

[Agent Zub]

I find it interesting when armchair GMs feel we COULD have got something more for a prospect that amounted to nothing

Something we might consider: Dahlen was traded in February 2017. Elias Peterson was chosen 5th in the 2017 draft. It's kinda likely that more scouts saw Dahlen in 2017 while scouting Peterson than what saw him during the year he was actually drafted. So while stat watchers are looking at it thinking his value was rising maybe scouts were looking at it thinking his value was falling. I mean surely if at that point his perceived value amongst the scouting community was late 1st rounder we would have done better no? And i guess if his value was that high, it only makes his failure to develop that much more of a shocker.

your appeal to authority is too much. GMs makes bad trades, scouts whiff on players and promising players can bust. Think for yourself.

 

[JD1]

Not doubt people were quite angry Dahlen was traded away for a 36 year old bottom six player who was gifted an extension and a NTC. I still think it was piss poor asset management.

That said, my point in this thread is that you said that over time the argument has switched from Dahlen being a good prospect to Burrows being a bad player because people can’t complain now that Dahlen has busted.

This isn’t the case. Plenty of posters complained about Burrows being done, or that he would be terrible during his extension right when the deal happened.

Now you’re moving the goalposts.

Maybe you should read that thread and count out the Dahlen = good prospect versus Burrows = bad player and assess the sentiment of why a poster didn't like the trade

Look at your own post on page 2 saying we overpaid...

 

[Hale The Villain]

Was not my intention to start another Dahlen/Burrows debate, as those have been played out already.

All I'll say is this, Dahlen busting doesn't change the fact that when he was traded he unquestionably had at least had the value of a 2nd round pick, as he was just drafted in the 2nd round and had improved his numbers significantly since being drafted.

Dealing anything of value for Burrows to give him a 2.5M x 2YR deal was a mistake, and that was proven when he was a complete non-factor in our playoff run and was bought out a year later.

If we had dealt Dahlen for a 7th round pick instead, Dahlen busting wouldn't make that a good trade in hindsight. His value at the time was higher, much higher than what he returned and that was very poor asset management.

 

[Korpse]

Dahlen for Burrows gets brought up not because of Dahlen but because we traded an asset for a piece we promptly had to buy out.

Take the asset we gave up out of the equasion and many people would still complain because Burrows was a divisive player even at his peak with lots of people hating him for his antics, and resulted in him being anchor so bad we bought him out.

I saw enough “erat for forsberg 2.0” Comments to know that ain’t the full truth.

 

[Bileur]

Maybe you should read that thread and count out the Dahlen = good prospect versus Burrows = bad player and assess the sentiment of why a poster didn't like the trade

Look at your own post on page 2 saying we overpaid...

My post on page two where I said « budget teams can’t afford horrible asset management » or my post on page three where I said «the Leafs picked up a better player for lesser pieces a few hours ago » and said Dorion getting reamed wouldn’t help Karlsson sign an extension?

It’s not about how many posts complained about one aspect or the other of the deal, you suggested that the narrative or Burrows being a bad player wasn’t originally part of the complaint and that this is a recent « switch » because of hindsight. The threads demonstrate that people complained about Burrows as a player at the time of the trade and that it was foreseeable that he would be very bad by the end of his extension. You’re spinning a false narrative.

 

[aragorn]

I mean anyone would trade Tkachuk for Lafreniere, regardless of contract situation. Lafreniere is on a different level.

You know I wouldn't right? Right? ....

 

[JD1]

My post on page two where I said « budget teams can’t afford horrible asset management » or my post on page three where I said «the Leafs picked up a better player for lesser pieces a few hours ago » and said Dorion getting reamed wouldn’t help Karlsson sign an extension?

It’s not about how many posts complained about one aspect or the other of the deal, you suggested that the narrative or Burrows being a bad player wasn’t originally part of the complaint and that this is a recent « switch » because of hindsight. The threads demonstrate that people complained about Burrows as a player at the time of the trade and that it was foreseeable that he would be very bad by the end of his extension. You’re spinning a false narrative.

Your post on page 2 where you said "we overpaid!"

What i said earlier was that it was primarily about Dahlen....what that means is that it was more about Dahlen than Burrows

You can go back in this thread and see what i said....i said primarily....and you can examine the Burrows / Dahlen trade thread...if you feel it wasn't primarily about giving up Dahlen well i guess we can agree to disagree

 

[FormentonTheFuture]

You know I wouldn't right? Right? ....

I'm as much of a Tkachuk fan as you...but I would.

 

[Bileur]

Your post on page 2 where you said "we overpaid!"

What i said earlier was that it was primarily about Dahlen....what that means is that it was more about Dahlen than Burrows

You can go back in this thread and see what i said....i said primarily....and you can examine the Burrows / Dahlen trade thread...if you feel it wasn't primarily about giving up Dahlen well i guess we can agree to disagree

Keep moving those goalposts JD.

I never suggested the frustration wasn’t primarily about Dahlen being moved. In my first post in this thread I clearly said value seemed to be the issue. That fits perfectly with me saying in 2017 that we overpaid.

What I disagreed with is your incorrect assertion that people have recently « switched » the argument to being about Burrows’ abilities. Burrows’ age and abilities have always been a factor in the frustration.

 

[DrakeAndJosh]

The only reason I don’t harp on the Zibby trade is because we were a goal away from having (IMO) a very good chance at winning the Stanley Cup. I feel the same way about the Burrows trade. He may not have been a top piece in those playoffs but he was a contributor on a team that almost won. If you win a Stanley cup all errors are forgotten. That team is in the past now and I’m only looking forward, and I think Pierre has done a good job setting us up. We’ll see where it goes from here.

 

[Agent Zub]

The only reason I don’t harp on the Zibby trade is because we were a goal away from having (IMO) a very good chance at winning the Stanley Cup. I feel the same way about the Burrows trade. He may not have been a top piece in those playoffs but he was a contributor on a team that almost won. If you win a Stanley cup all errors are forgotten. That team is in the past now and I’m only looking forward, and I think Pierre has done a good job setting us up. We’ll see where it goes from here.

Lol its weird cuz that's exactly what pisses me off. that we were so close and if the team was only a tiny bit better the Ottawa Senators have a cup right now. Sub in Zibanejad for Brassard who was basically a glorified 3rd liner as soon as we got him and a legitimate top 9 NHLer to Burrows replacement level play and yea, we would have had a parade going through downtown.

 

[BoardsofCanada]

People say Burrows did nothing in the playoffs are narrow minded. They are only looking at the stats. Going into the trade deadline that year, our bottom 6 was slow, weak and unskilled. THere were posts about our bottom 6 on this board. It was well known, we had one of the worst in the league.

Dorion added Burrows, Wingels and Stahlberg and suddenly, we had a good third line. I would argue that third line was crucial. Had we gone into the playoffs with Tom Pyatt, Chris Kelly and Chris Neil as our third line, we wouldn't have gone anywhere.

 

[Agent Zub]

People say Burrows did nothing in the playoffs are narrow minded. They are only looking at the stats. Going into the trade deadline that year, our bottom 6 was slow, weak and unskilled. THere were posts about our bottom 6 on this board. It was well known, we had one of the worst in the league.

Dorion added Burrows, Wingels and Stahlberg and suddenly, we had a good third line. I would argue that third line was crucial. Had we gone into the playoffs with Tom Pyatt, Chris Kelly and Chris Neil as our third line, we wouldn't have gone anywhere.

All the things that Burrows was for us.

our 3rd and 4th lines were brutal, one of the worst a team that has made it so far has ever had probably.

 

[R2010]

The only reason I don’t harp on the Zibby trade is because we were a goal away from having (IMO) a very good chance at winning the Stanley Cup. I feel the same way about the Burrows trade. He may not have been a top piece in those playoffs but he was a contributor on a team that almost won. If you win a Stanley cup all errors are forgotten. That team is in the past now and I’m only looking forward, and I think Pierre has done a good job setting us up. We’ll see where it goes from here.

Zibanejad was a force in the NYR series. Doubt Brassard vs Zibanejad would have altered things much on that run IMO. Trade was terrible since the beginning though. About as bad as the Bobby Ryan one.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Melnyk drafted Tkachuk, do not make any mistakes about it, solely because of the Tkachuk family Ukrainian heritage)))))) He would draft any canadian and american player with Ukrainian heritage. Melnyk is a board member of Advisory Council of Ukrainian Canadian Congress. Big deal in Ukrainian community of 2 million Canadians. Zadina's ceiling still will be around 80 points a season. Tkachuk's ceiling is 60. Could be more. He brings a lot more then points to the table. But Senators have absolutely NO top 6 forward talent. Nothing. And Tkachuk is still a border line top 6. Not to draft a top six forward like Zadina, when team is starving for talent and offence is irresponsible and a firing offence. I would fire Dorion on a spot for this or any scout.

Tkachuk over Zadina any day of the week. Tkachuk would go top 5 in a redraft. Very little chance Zadina does and Zadina likely drops from 6.

 

[NyQuil]

I was big on the Zadina bandwagon and was understandably upset with the Tkachuk selection, but he's shown tremendous strides in very little time. I've been forced to eat some crow on his account.

As a physical player, he's going to be further from his eventual ceiling than someone like Zadina, and he's already impressed.

The jury is still out, someone like Zadina could still put up big goal totals, but I think Tkachuk still has a lot of room to develop as an all-around hockey player.

And I do think you need guys who are prepared to sacrifice to win games in the playoffs, and Brady seems to be that kind of guy.

This goal says it all really:



No way does Tatar think that the unmade bed skating of Tkachuk is going to beat him to the net. But he does.

 

[PoutineSp00nZ]

Melnyk drafted Tkachuk, do not make any mistakes about it, solely because of the Tkachuk family Ukrainian heritage)))))) He would draft any canadian and american player with Ukrainian heritage. Melnyk is a board member of Advisory Council of Ukrainian Canadian Congress. Big deal in Ukrainian community of 2 million Canadians. Zadina's ceiling still will be around 80 points a season. Tkachuk's ceiling is 60. Could be more. He brings a lot more then points to the table. But Senators have absolutely NO top 6 forward talent. Nothing. And Tkachuk is still a border line top 6. Not to draft a top six forward like Zadina, when team is starving for talent and offence is irresponsible and a firing offence. I would fire Dorion on a spot for this or any scout.

Wow.

 

[bashbros32]

Dahlen for Burrows

Ah yes the old "hate on Dorian because he traded away an AHL/Allsvenskan player for Burrows"

A classic

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

Brady on Spittin Chiclets (with Walt & Matt)



Matt, Brady and Walt are all super complimentary of DJ. Brady really seems to love being a Sen.

 

[DueDiligence]

Captain Brady would lead his team to a series win in the "play ins". No doubt about it.

 

[SensFactor]

I was never a fan of Zadina. Im still skeptical he makes the NHL full time. I'd take Tkachuk 10 out of 10 times.

 

[Tkachuckycheese]

He's so well spoken and says some great stuff about Stone. He just screams the Sens next Captain