Player Discussion Brady Tkachuk (LW) I'm a fan.

[JD1]

Dahlen for Burrows gets brought up not because of Dahlen but because we traded an asset for a piece we promptly had to buy out.

Take the asset we gave up out of the equasion and many people would still complain because Burrows was a divisive player even at his peak with lots of people hating him for his antics, and resulted in him being anchor so bad we bought him out.

We didn't really promptly buy him out. He did play 106 games for us

Anyway in my view your post here is a goal post shift. The shit storm initially was primarily all about Dahlen and how great a prospect he was and how much more we could have got for such a prime asset. What's happened over time is the shit storm has switched to Burrows himself because there's no angle to storm shit with Dahlen not having amounted to anything.

 

[Micklebot]

No kidding .... How on earth can the Dahlen trade be viewed as a blunder. The extension speaks to the difficulty of getting players to move to Ottberia.

As i recall he wanted an extension to waive to go anywhere. Chicago was rumoured to have balked at the extension so he wouldn't waive to go there.

Based on his comments at the time, Dorion viewed Burrows as a short term Neil replacement, so the extension wasn't the cost of doing business, but rather added value in his mind.

But any excuse to squeeze in your cute nickname for Ottawa i guess...

Anyways, this thread really needs to get back onto the topic of Tkachuk, he's awesome. Very unique player and while there are arguably better players that went after him, what he provides is so rare and his archetype is iften seen as the missing piece.

 

[Crosside]

Imagine Dorion try to resign Tkachuk long term this summer and Tkachuk don’t want. Are you agree guys to put him on a trade for Lafrenière. Me yes if he don’t want to sign long term this summer

 

[FunkySeeFunkyDoo]

Dorion has been right a lot. The “Anti Dorion Hive Mind” on this forum is about 10x more incorrect than they claim PD to be.

For a guy who is handcuffed financially in Ottberia he has made some great decisions, while taking criticism for most of them.

I'll move out of the "Anti Dorion Hive" when he assembles a team that finishes higher than 30th in the league.

 

[Micklebot]

We didn't really promptly buy him out. He did play 106 games for us

Anyway in my view your post here is a goal post shift. The shit storm initially was primarily all about Dahlen and how great a prospect he was and how much more we could have got for such a prime asset. What's happened over time is the shit storm has switched to Burrows himself because there's no angle to storm shit with Dahlen not having amounted to anything.

Dahlen was certainly viewed as a valuable piece at the time of the trade by those who were upset. Many saw him as having late 1st value, which clearly he never lived up to though when you think about it, late firsts typically have about a 30% chance of becoming regular players.

The thing is both sides of the equation matters. Burrows was trash the second his new contract kicked in and many saw that coming, and outside of a hot start as a sen, he was pretty mediocre the year we got him. People were upset not because we traded Dahlen, almost everybody agreed he was entirely expendable, but because they didn't care for what we got in return.

Its certainly a valid position to argue that too much was expected out of a Dahlen trade or that the prospect was overatted, but the reality is the uproar was as much if not more about the target we acquired.

 

[JD1]

People were upset not because we traded Dahlen, almost everybody agreed he was entirely expendable.

This right here is the goal post shift

 

[Sweatred]

I'll move out of the "Anti Dorion Hive" when he assembles a team that finishes higher than 30th in the league.

Sure ... but I don’t think a teams record in a tear down is a good representation of his abilities. The genius new ownership in Chicago doesn’t look so great Now if you only look at their record.

 

[Micklebot]

This right here is the goal post shift

Nah, it's just refusing to accept the false narrative that people were upset with the trade exclusively because they over valued Dahlen as a prospect.

Both being wrong about the future impact or value of Dahlen, and being right about Burrows not being worth the price paid can be true.

That said, the thing about prospects is that even valuable ones can bust, so him not panning out doesn't actually prove anything in terms of whether or not we overpaid for Burrows. We'll never know what other teams were willing to pay for either piece so in the end it all comes down to subjective opinions which is probably why the topic has zombie like staying power and seems to infect every single thread...

Time to move on. Tkachuk has nothing to do with that trade, maybe we should talk about him more.

 

[DueDiligence]

I'll move out of the "Anti Dorion Hive" when he assembles a team that finishes higher than 30th in the league.

next season

 

[JD1]

Nah, it's just refusing to accept the false narrative that people were upset with the trade exclusively because they over valued Dahlen as a prospect.

i'll tell ya, Catherine McKenna would fit right in on this board

"I said that if you actually say it louder, we’ve learned in the House of Commons, if you repeat it, if you say it louder, if that is your talking point, people will totally believe it,” claims McKenna.

 

[Micklebot]

i'll tell ya, Catherine McKenna would fit right in on this board

"I said that if you actually say it louder, we’ve learned in the House of Commons, if you repeat it, if you say it louder, if that is your talking point, people will totally believe it,” claims McKenna.

You've been repeating a lot of things loudly yourself. Perhaps a look in the mirror once in a while would do you some good.

 

[thinkwild]

The old intangible of character seems pretty tangible in Tkachuk. It almost seems measurable, that difference between when many fans groaned because we drafted “character”, with character in quotes because that trait was thought of derisively. And the current view of the value added he brings because of character.

 

[JD1]

You've been repeating a lot of things loudly yourself. Perhaps a look in the mirror once in a while would do you some good.

well thank you for that reminder, i'll make sure to do that

in the case of Jonathen Dahlen though, I remember the discussion on the board quite well and I also remember Pierre Dorion's interview on the subject on 1200. I am quite comfortable with how I remember the board's reaction to that trade

 

[FunkySeeFunkyDoo]

next season

Generally speaking, if the rebuild continues in a positive direction I'll be the first to give Dorion credit.

But, I'll also reserve the right to believe that when I see it happen.

 

[DrakeAndJosh]

Imagine Dorion try to resign Tkachuk long term this summer and Tkachuk don’t want. Are you agree guys to put him on a trade for Lafrenière. Me yes if he don’t want to sign long term this summer

Absolutely not. I don’t really seeing that being an issue, but if it is, the team has the leverage over the RFA.

 

[SENATOR]

Melnyk drafted Tkachuk, do not make any mistakes about it, solely because of the Tkachuk family Ukrainian heritage)))))) He would draft any canadian and american player with Ukrainian heritage. Melnyk is a board member of Advisory Council of Ukrainian Canadian Congress. Big deal in Ukrainian community of 2 million Canadians. Zadina's ceiling still will be around 80 points a season. Tkachuk's ceiling is 60. Could be more. He brings a lot more then points to the table. But Senators have absolutely NO top 6 forward talent. Nothing. And Tkachuk is still a border line top 6. Not to draft a top six forward like Zadina, when team is starving for talent and offence is irresponsible and a firing offence. I would fire Dorion on a spot for this or any scout.

 

[aragorn]

Melnyk drafted Tkachuk, do not make any mistakes about it, solely because of the Tkachuk family Ukrainian heritage)))))) He would draft any canadian and american player with Ukrainian heritage. Melnyk is a board member of Advisory Council of Ukrainian Canadian Congress. Big deal in Ukrainian community of 2 million Canadians. Zadina's ceiling still will be around 80 points a season. Tkachuk's ceiling is 60. Could be more. He brings a lot more then points to the table. But Senators have absolutely NO top 6 forward talent. Nothing. And Tkachuk is still a border line top 6. Not to draft a top six forward like Zadina, when team is starving for talent and offence is irresponsible and a firing offence. I would fire Dorion on a spot for this or any scout.

Let's be clear, no one knows how many points a prospect will get in the NHL until he gets it. Potential is just a word until they achieve it, maybe Zadina has the potential to be an 80 pt player & maybe he never gets above 40 pts, maybe it's just talk, nobody knows for sure.

What we do know is that Tkachuk improves the Sens as a whole & is doing exactly what he was advertised he could do to help this team win games. He's exactly the kind of player team's need to win in the playoffs & win a SC. I happen to think that Ottawa has good enough skilled players like Batherson, L. Brown, Norris & others. As long as they can put the puck in the net with regularity & prevent the other team from out scoring them that should work. I'm not sure why people are so fixated on flash & dash all the time.

 

[FormentonTheFuture]

Melnyk drafted Tkachuk, do not make any mistakes about it, solely because of the Tkachuk family Ukrainian heritage)))))) He would draft any canadian and american player with Ukrainian heritage. Melnyk is a board member of Advisory Council of Ukrainian Canadian Congress. Big deal in Ukrainian community of 2 million Canadians. Zadina's ceiling still will be around 80 points a season. Tkachuk's ceiling is 60. Could be more. He brings a lot more then points to the table. But Senators have absolutely NO top 6 forward talent. Nothing. And Tkachuk is still a border line top 6. Not to draft a top six forward like Zadina, when team is starving for talent and offence is irresponsible and a firing offence. I would fire Dorion on a spot for this or any scout.

Good lord.

 

[FormentonTheFuture]

Let's be clear, no one knows how many points a prospect will get in the NHL until he gets it. Potential is just a word until they achieve it, maybe Zadina has the potential to be an 80 pt player & maybe he never gets above 40 pts, maybe it's just talk, nobody knows for sure.

What we do know is that Tkachuk improves the Sens as a whole & is doing exactly what he was advertised he could do to help this team win games. He's exactly the kind of player team's need to win in the playoffs & win a SC. I happen to think that Ottawa has good enough skilled players like Batherson, L. Brown, Norris & others. As long as they can put the puck in the net with regularity & prevent the other team from out scoring them that should work. I'm not sure why people are so fixated on flash & dash all the time.

don't bother...this guy has no clue.

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

Melnyk drafted Tkachuk, do not make any mistakes about it, solely because of the Tkachuk family Ukrainian heritage)))))) He would draft any canadian and american player with Ukrainian heritage. Melnyk is a board member of Advisory Council of Ukrainian Canadian Congress. Big deal in Ukrainian community of 2 million Canadians. Zadina's ceiling still will be around 80 points a season. Tkachuk's ceiling is 60. Could be more. He brings a lot more then points to the table. But Senators have absolutely NO top 6 forward talent. Nothing. And Tkachuk is still a border line top 6. Not to draft a top six forward like Zadina, when team is starving for talent and offence is irresponsible and a firing offence. I would fire Dorion on a spot for this or any scout.

The Tkachuk pick feels more like a Dorion pick than a Melnyk one.

 

[Bileur]

We didn't really promptly buy him out. He did play 106 games for us

Anyway in my view your post here is a goal post shift. The shit storm initially was primarily all about Dahlen and how great a prospect he was and how much more we could have got for such a prime asset. What's happened over time is the shit storm has switched to Burrows himself because there's no angle to storm shit with Dahlen not having amounted to anything.

An interesting thing about message boards is that we don’t have to rely on your recollection of the discussion and can just look back and see what happened:

Part 1: Confirmed with Link: - Alex BURROWS traded to Ottawa for Dahlen | Signed to speculated extension 2x2.5

Part 2: Burrows for Dahlen Part 2 | Rage and Anger Edition

Skimming through those it’s quite evident that the majority of the complaints were about the value the sens got in acquiring him and that a significant portion of posters were complaining about Burrows being done or being a minimal improvement and not warranting an extension.

 

[Crosside]

Absolutely not. I don’t really seeing that being an issue, but if it is, the team has the leverage over the RFA.

I know we have the rfa year. But I don’t want a mess of negotiations like his brother. If he don’t want to commit this year like Chabot. I think if a team that have the first this year want him in a trade , do it

 

[Sweatred]

I know we have the rfa year. But I don’t want a mess of negotiations like his brother. If he don’t want to commit this year like Chabot. I think if a team that have the first this year want him in a trade , do it

Brady for Laf would be interesting. It would align our rebuild to the maturation of the 2020 group. It would also take away an experienced player to help support our rookies. Maybe we could replace him with a FA?

 

[FormentonTheFuture]

I mean anyone would trade Tkachuk for Lafreniere, regardless of contract situation. Lafreniere is on a different level.

 

[Agent Zub]

We didn't really promptly buy him out. He did play 106 games for us

Anyway in my view your post here is a goal post shift. The shit storm initially was primarily all about Dahlen and how great a prospect he was and how much more we could have got for such a prime asset. What's happened over time is the shit storm has switched to Burrows himself because there's no angle to storm shit with Dahlen not having amounted to anything.

For prospects you value them based on potential. At that point Dahlen was a recent 2nd round pick who had improved upon his draft season and was one of the best players in his men's league. At worst he was only worth a 2nd rounder at that point and more realistically his value AT THE TIME was a late 1st early 2nd.

Just this season Dorion traded Ennis/ Namestnikov who are much better players than Burrows for a 4th and a 5th. The issue isn't that Dahlen busted it's the value Dorion got for his asset when he was the only one bidding on his target. Not to mention that ridiculous extension.

We could have traded Dahlen for a better player and maybe won a cup or at least gotten a player who could contribute more to the team.