Brad Larsen - move on or ride it out - poll

[Finner]

the job of being an NHL head coach is clearly too big for brad larsen, a guy who has never been an NHL head coach before.

the solution is not to replace him with another guy who has never been an NHL head coach before.


absolutely not.


gallant would come here, has NHL experience, has a track record of being good with young teams, etc. if NYR doesn't bring him back, he'd be good.

trotz would be a good option but i doubt CBJ ownership would be the highest bidder there.

gimme brunette. this roster will be talented enough to play a similar style to his florida team last year.

Brad Larsen hasnt been headcoach. Jalonen has won everything in europe. Olympic golf, several world champs, leagues in europe. Comparing Larsen and Jalonen is like comparing renault megane to porsche 911

 

[Easternbull]

If you want the young players to learn how to play a winning style of hockey, you need to hire a coach that knows how to win.

Currently only two are available and I dont think Trotz wants to come to Columbus.

Bad "ingliz" or not there is only one guy who has one everything in hockey apart from lord stanleys cup.

 

[majormajor]

If you want the young players to learn how to play a winning style of hockey, you need to hire a coach that knows how to win.

Currently only two are available and I dont think Trotz wants to come to Columbus.

Bad "ingliz" or not there is only one guy who has one everything in hockey apart from lord stanleys cup.

The NHL is changing a lot as we speak, and I'm not even persuaded that a guy who knows winning hockey from 5 years ago can keep up. Let alone a guy who knows winning hockey from the other side of the globe.

If Jalonen wants to come spend some time on a coaching staff in the NHL and work from there, that would be a better path.

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

Brad Larsen hasnt been headcoach. Jalonen has won everything in europe. Olympic golf, several world champs, leagues in europe. Comparing Larsen and Jalonen is like comparing renault megane to porsche 911

Doesn't mean he can be successful in the NHL. We send prospects to Cleveland because they need time to adjust to NA hockey. I think the same applies to coaches. How do we know he can adapt to NA Hockey?

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Doesn't mean he can be successful in the NHL. We send prospects to Cleveland because they need time to adjust to NA hockey. I think the same applies to coaches. How do we know he can adapt to NA Hockey?

I think you would hire a guy like that to teach your players to play that different b EA be if hockey in hopes that he would teach it well enough and your players play it that they would be successful.

I’m not saying I agree with the idea.

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

I think you would hire a guy like that to teach your players to play that different b EA be if hockey in hopes that he would teach it well enough and your players play it that they would be successful.

I’m not saying I agree with the idea.

Probably. But we also don't know if european hockey works in the NHL. The league is gearing towards smaller and faster guys with less hitting but the smaller space is the adjustment where there is less room. Those seem to be the players Jarmo has been drafting but obviously the issue is we still process the game and move too slowly.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Probably. But we also don't know if european hockey works in the NHL. The league is gearing towards smaller and faster guys with less hitting but the smaller space is the adjustment where there is less room. Those seem to be the players Jarmo has been drafting but obviously the issue is we still process the game and move too slowly.

Of course. This my disclaimer regarding my personal opinion on the subject. I was replying to the notion that you’d want your Euro coach to get up to speed on the NA game. Maybe you wouldn’t.

 

[DarkandStormy]

gimme brunette. this roster will be talented enough to play a similar style to his florida team last year.

How funny is it that Brunette took over a Florida team last season 7 games into the year after Quenneville was forced out, led the Panthers to the President's Trophy, was a Jack Adams finalist, and Florida was like, "nah, we gotta get Paul Maurice in here!" - a pretty mediocre coach who QUIT ON HIS TEAM halfway through last season.

Fast forward and let's see how everyone is doing:
-Brunette goes to NJ (with some believing a handshake deal to take over for Ruff) and the Devils, who have been to the playoffs once (a first round exit in 2018) since their SCF loss in 2012 and have finished 7th or 8th in their division each of the last four seasons, suddenly become a top 5ish team in the league and are the early season darlings/surprise of the league, at one point going 21-2-1 with a 13-game winning streak before their bad goaltending has caught up with them in recent weeks.
-Paul Maurice takes over, again, the reigning President's Trophy winners coming off a 122-point season, and the Panthers are just...bad? They're 11-14-3 in their last 28 games and currently sit at fake-.500, 12th in the East, and 6 points back of Washington for WC2, with the Capitals set to get Tom Wilson and Nicklas Backstrom back soon.
-Meanwhile, Maurice's old team - the one he quit on - is now 2nd in the Western Conference by points %.

Hmmm, who is Florida's GM?

 

[Cyclones Rock]

How funny is it that Brunette took over a Florida team last season 7 games into the year after Quenneville was forced out, led the Panthers to the President's Trophy, was a Jack Adams finalist, and Florida was like, "nah, we gotta get Paul Maurice in here!" - a pretty mediocre coach who QUIT ON HIS TEAM halfway through last season.

Fast forward and let's see how everyone is doing:
-Brunette goes to NJ (with some believing a handshake deal to take over for Ruff) and the Devils, who have been to the playoffs once (a first round exit in 2018) since their SCF loss in 2012 and have finished 7th or 8th in their division each of the last four seasons, suddenly become a top 5ish team in the league and are the early season darlings/surprise of the league, at one point going 21-2-1 with a 13-game winning streak before their bad goaltending has caught up with them in recent weeks.
-Paul Maurice takes over, again, the reigning President's Trophy winners coming off a 122-point season, and the Panthers are just...bad? They're 11-14-3 in their last 28 games and currently sit at fake-.500, 12th in the East, and 6 points back of Washington for WC2, with the Capitals set to get Tom Wilson and Nicklas Backstrom back soon.
-Meanwhile, Maurice's old team - the one he quit on - is now 2nd in the Western Conference by points %.

Hmmm, who is Florida's GM?

I think Zito and Jarmo both suffer from the "I'm the smartest guy in the room" complex. As is almost always the case with these types, they aren't. There certainly wasn't room for both of them in the same organization. I mean, you can't have two of the smartest guys in the room in the same room

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

I think Zito and Jarmo both suffer from the "I'm the smartest guy in the room" complex. As is almost always the case with these types, they aren't. There certainly wasn't room for both of them in the same organization. I mean, you can't have two of the smartest guys in the room in the same room

And by assuming we know better than them what does that make us?

 

[Cyclones Rock]

And by assuming we know better than them what does that make us?

Cute.

 

[Easternbull]

Time and time again Jalonens teams have beaten national/nhl teams on small ice, whilst icing teams with mostly non nhl players on nhl size rinks like in the last olympics.

Jukka is tactically superior to many of todays nhl coaches and he is able to find the right role players and to mold team into defensively sound teams 5v5 who win games/gold medals with exceptional special teams.

I can only think of two reasons he has not been given a shot. I think the northamerican coaches have realized how could a coach he is and are scared shitless of braking the damm and letting more european coaches and gms take their jobs or...

They have him confused with little Jukka!

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Cute.

Yeah this weather sucks for all of you cause I’m actually reading the boards today.

 

[MoeBartoli]

How funny is it that Brunette took over a Florida team last season 7 games into the year after Quenneville was forced out, led the Panthers to the President's Trophy, was a Jack Adams finalist, and Florida was like, "nah, we gotta get Paul Maurice in here!" - a pretty mediocre coach who QUIT ON HIS TEAM halfway through last season.

Fast forward and let's see how everyone is doing:
-Brunette goes to NJ (with some believing a handshake deal to take over for Ruff) and the Devils, who have been to the playoffs once (a first round exit in 2018) since their SCF loss in 2012 and have finished 7th or 8th in their division each of the last four seasons, suddenly become a top 5ish team in the league and are the early season darlings/surprise of the league, at one point going 21-2-1 with a 13-game winning streak before their bad goaltending has caught up with them in recent weeks.
-Paul Maurice takes over, again, the reigning President's Trophy winners coming off a 122-point season, and the Panthers are just...bad? They're 11-14-3 in their last 28 games and currently sit at fake-.500, 12th in the East, and 6 points back of Washington for WC2, with the Capitals set to get Tom Wilson and Nicklas Backstrom back soon.
-Meanwhile, Maurice's old team - the one he quit on - is now 2nd in the Western Conference by points %.

Hmmm, who is Florida's GM?

Brunette did an excellent job stepping in and the bonus attractiveness is you g coaches are often better in their second stint. Zito made a huge mistake in hiring Maurice who is a IMO the classic retread. It looks to me that Zito is falling into the Vegas footsteps of thinking.

 

[NotCommitted]

Jalonen is interesting, but honestly I'm not seeing him getting as big of a role in an NHL organization he'd need to be truly succesful. I believe he's the best national team coach in the world, but part of that is he's had the ability to build the whole staff around him and he chooses the players, so it's not only about his coaching genius of hockey tactics or whatever, but making the national team a well oiled machine, with all the parts in all the right places.

I would 100% expect him to be at least league average coach in the NHL once he gets settled, but I don't think some kind of epic success would be a given. Also I get the feeling the culture is very set in the NHL and also the season is 82 games long and all the players are millionaires, it's a very different environment and I'm not sure his style would be embraced. Looking from the outside from a fan perspective, NHL certainly seems like a league where everyone is kinda happy to keep doing the same old thing as long as the money keeps coming and no one wants the boat to get rocked because who knows what would happen then, it's pretty evident most personnel decisions aren't based on pure professional ability. Someone like Olli Jokinen probably has a lot higher chance to become an NHL coach than Jalonen.

 

[CBJx614]

Jalonen is interesting, but honestly I'm not seeing him getting as big of a role in an NHL organization he'd need to be truly succesful. I believe he's the best national team coach in the world, but part of that is he's had the ability to build the whole staff around him and he chooses the players, so it's not only about his coaching genius of hockey tactics or whatever, but making the national team a well oiled machine, with all the parts in all the right places.

I would 100% expect him to be at least league average coach in the NHL once he gets settled, but I don't think some kind of epic success would be a given. Also I get the feeling the culture is very set in the NHL and also the season is 82 games long and all the players are millionaires, it's a very different environment and I'm not sure his style would be embraced. Looking from the outside from a fan perspective, NHL certainly seems like a league where everyone is kinda happy to keep doing the same old thing as long as the money keeps coming and no one wants the boat to get rocked because who knows what would happen then, it's pretty evident most personnel decisions aren't based on pure professional ability. Someone like Olli Jokinen probably has a lot higher chance to become an NHL coach than Jalonen.

Can't tell if Jarmo is hyping up a friend or if he really considered it.

Hockey Jarmo Kekäläinen believes in the NHL opportunities for Finnish coaches: “There is not a single sports director who d

Tuomo Ruutu got a job at the Florida Panthers and took over this season as one of the club’s assistant coaches.

“I have said many times that the best road would be the one that Tuomo Ruutu travels.”

Kekäläinen emphasizes learning about local culture, coaching, teamwork, and local practices.

“It’s the best way, but of course Jukka Jalonen’s merits are enough for just about anything.”

“There is no such thing as an NHL sports director [GM]who would not know who Jukka Jalonen is, ”says Kekäläinen.

The head coach is again open in the NHL. Vegas is looking for No. 1 commander, as is Detroit, which has run into the bottom, as well as Philadelphia.

Kekäläinen also had a deck of cards on the table a year ago and had to choose a head coach for Blue Jackets. Kekäläinen called Jalonen, but the message of the call was that the work is appreciated, but the needs are not met.

Columbus took first place with an unknown Brad Larsen.

“In the last stage, we didn’t feel that Jukka would be the most suitable option for us, but not because his coaching career was not appreciated.”

Jalonen turns 60 in the fall, but Kekäläinen says that age doesn’t matter in North America.

“I wouldn’t think about it for a second.”

Finns young players have long talked about their goals to play in the NHL. There has been a big change when coaches dare to say it out loud.

Jalonen has talked a lot about his dream. Toni Söderholm does a good job on the German national team and is a new generation coach Jussi Ahokas consciously build relationships towards the NHL.

“Absolutely realism,” says Kekäläinen about the coaches’ chances of being elected at some point.

 

[domi28]

Time and time again Jalonens teams have beaten national/nhl teams on small ice, whilst icing teams with mostly non nhl players on nhl size rinks like in the last olympics.

Jukka is tactically superior to many of todays nhl coaches and he is able to find the right role players and to mold team into defensively sound teams 5v5 who win games/gold medals with exceptional special teams.

I can only think of two reasons he has not been given a shot. I think the northamerican coaches have realized how could a coach he is and are scared shitless of braking the damm and letting more european coaches and gms take their jobs or...

They have him confused with little Jukka!

3. No franchise wants to be the guinea pig to see if picking players and prepping a roster for a 2 week all star tourney translates into being an NHL head coach

I get the love affair with Jukka but the vast majority of his resume is tourney coaching. Unless I'm missing something he hasn't even coached in a league since 2017 Jokerit in the KHL.

 

[thebus88]

Larsen IS NOT responsible for the lazy effort, giving the puck away, not covering guys/leaving guys wide open in the slot or around the net, etc.

He (or any coach) is also not responsible for guys not giving enough effort needed to ACTUALLY SUCCEED offensively, and the players should also get all the blame for the lack of offensive execution, set plays/PP or 5 on 5.

Not Larsen, but, once again I also want it out there just how RIDICULOUS the “fire Legace” idea is in EVERY aspect.

Maybe the problem isn’t the coaches, but maybe, that we have a “core” or small group of “un-coachable” players that believe they are “superstars” and take up a large amount of the teams cap money, yet have extensive lists of holes and issues with their games.

Maybe the players should be having more off day/optional skates and working on things together, than out buying suits and hats.

I have a feeling Larsen’s feelings toward the roster he has been given is comparable to how many of you football fans, Ohio residents and Finns feel about him at this point.

 

[majormajor]

Larsen IS NOT responsible for the lazy effort, giving the puck away, not covering guys/leaving guys wide open in the slot or around the net, etc.

He (or any coach) is also not responsible for guys not giving enough effort needed to ACTUALLY SUCCEED offensively, and the players should also get all the blame for the lack of offensive execution, set plays/PP or 5 on 5.

Not Larsen, but, once again I also want it out there just how RIDICULOUS the “fire Legace” idea is in EVERY aspect.

Maybe the problem isn’t the coaches, but maybe, that we have a “core” or small group of “un-coachable” players that believe they are “superstars” and take up a large amount of the teams cap money, yet have extensive lists of holes and issues with their games.

Maybe the players should be having more off day/optional skates and working on things together, than out buying suits and hats.

I have a feeling Larsen’s feelings toward the roster he has been given is comparable to how many of you football fans, Ohio residents and Finns feel about him at this point.

I'm generally on the side of things where I think Larsen was given an uncoachable team to work with.

But if a coach isn't responsible for any of the things that you listed, then what are they responsible for?

Probably something that we don't get to observe and shouldn't waste time talking about.

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

Larsen IS NOT responsible for the lazy effort, giving the puck away, not covering guys/leaving guys wide open in the slot or around the net, etc.

He (or any coach) is also not responsible for guys not giving enough effort needed to ACTUALLY SUCCEED offensively, and the players should also get all the blame for the lack of offensive execution, set plays/PP or 5 on 5.

Not Larsen, but, once again I also want it out there just how RIDICULOUS the “fire Legace” idea is in EVERY aspect.

Maybe the problem isn’t the coaches, but maybe, that we have a “core” or small group of “un-coachable” players that believe they are “superstars” and take up a large amount of the teams cap money, yet have extensive lists of holes and issues with their games.

Maybe the players should be having more off day/optional skates and working on things together, than out buying suits and hats.

I have a feeling Larsen’s feelings toward the roster he has been given is comparable to how many of you football fans, Ohio residents and Finns feel about him at this point.

I'm generally on the side of things where I think Larsen was given an uncoachable team to work with.

But if a coach isn't responsible for any of the things that you listed, then what are they responsible for?

Probably something that we don't get to observe and shouldn't waste time talking about.

Sometimes things aren't the coaches fault and I'm all for Jarmo holding blame because he collected the players and hasn't found a guy who can coach them.

However, I don't believe players are uncoachable. I believe there are coaches who try to make a player something they are not. If a player was never taught to play defense effectively when he was younger, he isn't ever gong to be a Selke winner. If a player just isn't that smart, you aren't going get him admitted into MENSA.

I believe a good coach will take the players he is given and his job is to find a way to make them all successful within their available abilities. If he can't do that, then he is a wrong person for the job. There are skills a player can work on and get better from a technical perspective like winning faceoffs but I think that is more of an offseason development. I just think in season players should just be doing the jobs they do best and not being asked t regularly be something they are not. I feel like Jarmo, Torts, and now Larsen try to turn players into something they are not at the NHL level and that will very rarely be successful.

 

[koteka]

I feel like Jarmo, Torts, and now Larsen try to turn players into something they are not at the NHL level and that will very rarely be successful.

I think you are being generous to Larsen. I don’t think he has a plan, so I don’t know that he is actively trying to turn players into something they are not. Torts had a plan. Not everyone likes Torts’ plan (sacrifice your body to block shots, etc.), but he obviously has a plan. At times I think Jarmo is more reactive than following a plan. He reacts very well (Laine trade, etc), but I don’t know that he has a plan he is following. Jarmo also seemed to be actively trying to get players that didn’t fit Torts’ style of play.

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

I think you are being generous to Larsen. I don’t think he has a plan, so I don’t know that he is actively trying to turn players into something they are not. Torts had a plan. Not everyone likes Torts’ plan (sacrifice your body to block shots, etc.), but he obviously has a plan. At times I think Jarmo is more reactive than following a plan. He reacts very well (Laine trade, etc), but I don’t know that he has a plan he is following. Jarmo also seemed to be actively trying to get players that didn’t fit Torts’ style of play.

You're right. I guess that technically is a "plan" of some sort.

 

[Monstershockey]

I agree to a point that you can't just mold players into something they aren't, but if a player has the smarts and awareness, I see no reason why a player can't improve that part of his game to be at least average or a little above, which in some cases, is all you need from some guys. This roster is loaded with players that cannot, or will not play any kind of D effectively, plan or no plan. I find it really hard to believe a guy gets to this level in his coaching career and has no plan. While I don't think Larsen is blameless, he had a tall order in front of him fielding basically an AHL level team in this league. Even without the injuries this team wasn't going to be good defensively, and while some feel they addressed it in the draft, we have no idea if any of these guys will pan out. This has been a perfect year for the people that want to tank, but for people like me that wants to see this team grow, it has been miserable. Then to add on top of it how bad the Monsters have been defensively all year, just makes it worse.

 

[majormajor]

I feel like Jarmo, Torts, and now Larsen try to turn players into something they are not at the NHL level and that will very rarely be successful.

That's funny because I think Torts did a great job molding a team out of his players while Larsen doesn't seem to have tried to change them.

If you just take the players "as they are" then you end up with like 20 guys that were the top scorers on the team they played on as teenagers and don't really know how to function in the various roles that a team requires. That seems to describe our team pretty well.

I think you are being generous to Larsen. I don’t think he has a plan, so I don’t know that he is actively trying to turn players into something they are not. Torts had a plan. Not everyone likes Torts’ plan (sacrifice your body to block shots, etc.), but he obviously has a plan.

I think Lars' plan was to encourage the natural talent. That was always his role as the foil to Torts and that's what I presume Jarmo wanted. But then what do you do when just letting the natural talent out ends in failure?

At times I think Jarmo is more reactive than following a plan. He reacts very well (Laine trade, etc), but I don’t know that he has a plan he is following. Jarmo also seemed to be actively trying to get players that didn’t fit Torts’ style of play.

We think Jarmo reacted well with the Laine trade? I'm not trying to dump on Laine, he is what he is and we might as well hope he can get healthier and do better for us, but the moment that trade happened it was clear enough to me that we were going to take a big step back as a franchise.

I'm sure Jarmo did have a plan there - make a #1C swap. He couldn't find that deal and then Torts forced him to hurry up, which ended up with us getting caved in in the literal center of our lineup.

I also think Jarmo had a plan going back to at least the 2020 offseason after the bubble playoffs. He wanted to retool things and go for more skill. It's just been poorly done. Bad pro scouting, terrible gutting of forechecking/cycle ability, etc...

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

That's funny because I think Torts did a great job molding a team out of his players while Larsen doesn't seem to have tried to change them.

If you just take the players "as they are" then you end up with like 20 guys that were the top scorers on the team they played on as teenagers and don't really know how to function in the various roles that a team requires. That seems to describe our team pretty well.



I think Lars' plan was to encourage the natural talent. That was always his role as the foil to Torts and that's what I presume Jarmo wanted. But then what do you do when just letting the natural talent out ends in failure?

Well, The issue with Torts is if you couldn't or didn't mold to what he wanted, you were punished. He was not good about playing to others strengths in most cases.

If Lars plan was to encourage natural talent, he should give them more than 10 minutes of ice time. He hasn't trusted Kent Johnson until he had to. I think part of letting them be themselves included letting them take their lumps. I get wanting to be patient with young players but at times its like he's scared of letting them succeed as themselves. The mystical system he's asked the players to learn also seems counter productive to letting the players be themselves because everybody seems to be confused on what to do. If their natural talent is a failure, then we have a drafting and development problem. Its not like we've never had a prospect fail here before.

I think everyone on this team has talent. The issue is that everything is reactionary and deliberate. They very rarely play on instinct.