Prospect Info: Bowen Byram - D [2019: 4th Overall] Part II: Now serving a side of overconfidence!

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McMetal

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It’s probably unlikely he gets into a game, but I’d have him second in line.

Timmins would be my first choice to get in, then Byram. Barberio’s obviously got a lot more experience, but I think Byram is already better.
I agree with you that Byram is better at hockey than Barberio, but Barberio is SAFER, and in the playoffs that has more value than raw talent sometimes. Bednar is not going to use Byram over Barbie if he can help it, not when Byram is such a wild card and one goal against can change a whole series.
 

Richard88

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Man that's going to be a disaster for every player in development leagues if that happens.

Don't want guys like Newhook to miss an entire year of hockey.
If Newhook is faced with the prospect of no hockey then I think Sakic would simply calls him up a year earlier than intended. His ELC lines up with the Mackinnon/Byram/Kaut renewals (as well as expirations of Donskoi/Compher/Johnson/etc) so it is workable cap-wise if we burn a year early.
 

Foppa2118

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Yeah I think Timmins and Barbs will compete with one another for the 7D spot, and Byram is probably after them.

We have to remember that Byram is almost a full year and a half younger than Makar was when he stepped right into the playoffs. Cale was 20 and six months old, and Bo is 19 and one month old right now.

That's a fairly big difference in both physical and mental/emotional maturity at that age.
 

Ararana

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Yeah I think Timmins and Barbs will compete with one another for the 7D spot, and Byram is probably after them.

We have to remember that Byram is almost a full year and a half younger than Makar was when he stepped right into the playoffs. Cale was 20 and six months old, and Bo is 19 and one month old right now.

That's a fairly big difference in both physical and mental/emotional maturity at that age.

And while Byram had a significantly better D+1 season than Makar, I'd say Makar was a much better player at the time he made the jump than Byram is today. Plus Byram is coming off four months of not playing meaningful hockey while Makar was very much in playoff mode already.
 
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PAZ

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If Newhook is faced with the prospect of no hockey then I think Sakic would simply calls him up a year earlier than intended. His ELC lines up with the Mackinnon/Byram/Kaut renewals (as well as expirations of Donskoi/Compher/Johnson/etc) so it is workable cap-wise if we burn a year early.

Newhook isn't signed, and if he does he won't be able to go back and play College hockey. But it's still the most plausible option, since if things smooth over later on he can play in the AHL.
 

tigervixxxen

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Yeah that's why it doesn't make sense for any of the top contenders to not bring guys like Byram along.

If it's the first round or two, maybe there's an argument not to burn Byram's first year, but if they're in the Conference Finals or the Finals like you allude to, I think you have to burn that first year if they've got multiple injuries/positive COVID tests and are down to low scoring AHLers. Especially if they're down an offensive defenseman or two and need Byram's mobility/offense.
This is my position as well. It’s lunacy to give those last few spots to replacement level AHL players over first round talent who can help win. There’s going to be enough extra vets in the first place, we are talking about guys who have statistically proven to be poor fill-ins who do not need to be part of the process. And you never know how many guys you’ll need. If Girard or Makar go down they need to seriously think about Byram.

I’m thrilled to hear Byram will be coming to camp, I think it’s very meaningful for his development to have any involvement. But it could just be for camp, we’ll see if he gets on the final roster. Still, a good step.

I very strongly believe the Avs need to go 2 D on pp1. So what if the rest of the league uses one D, it’s a competitive advantage for the Avs to have the talent on the back end available to change their look. There was also a recent article about how the PPs that have the Ds taking the majority point shots are the least successful. Makar needs to be used as a shooter on the pp, having him stuck on the point neuters him. I’d put Girard on pp1 as the point man and eventually consider that for Byram. Put Makar high up on the right side, that’s where he likes to shoot from anyway. Mack and a Mikko in their spots then pick whoever to be the net front. They are wasting so much talent with how they utilize the pp right now.
 
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Foppa2118

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This is my position as well. It’s lunacy to give those last few spots to replacement level AHL players over first round talent who can help win. There’s going to be enough extra vets in the first place, we are talking about guys who have statistically proven to be poor fill-ins who do not need to be part of the process. And you never know how many guys you’ll need. If Girard or Makar go down they need to seriously think about Byram.

I’m thrilled to hear Byram will be coming to camp, I think it’s very meaningful for his development to have any involvement. But it could just be for camp, we’ll see if he gets on the final roster. Still, a good step.

I very strongly believe the Avs need to go 2 D on pp1. So what if the rest of the league uses one D, it’s a competitive advantage for the Avs to have the talent on the back end available to change their look. There was also a recent article about how the PPs that have the Ds taking the majority point shots are the least successful. Makar needs to be used as a shooter on the pp, having him stuck on the point neuters him. I’d put Girard on pp1 as the point man and eventually consider that for Byram. Put Makar high up on the right side, that’s where he likes to shoot from anyway. Mack and a Mikko in their spots then pick whoever to be the net front. They are wasting so much talent with how they utilize the pp right now.

Yeah totally agree on the scratches. Disagree a little on the power play though.

I think that makes sense that you don't want your D men taking all the shots on the power play, but that's an argument IMO for why coaches have kind of gone away from using 2 D on PP1. You end up a little too stationary and predictable when using two D men at the point for shots, and because of that, you end up hitting a lot of shin pads.

You have to have really good movement on the PP to be effective. Both with the puck to get the PK moving out of position, and with your legs to find the open shooting lanes, and soft spots on the ice.

That's why you see this new style where someone with a good one timer like MacKinnon, Stamkos, Ovechkin etc play the point but then shift down to the circle.

I think Makar is good all over the ice though, not just in one spot. That's why he's such a special defenseman. He's great at the top of the point, because he's really good with timing his wrister through traffic, and finding the open net. It also makes the PP a little unpredictable, because if he doesn't take that shot from the top of the point, he can pass to MacKinnon for his deadly one timer.

He's also really good on the right side like you mention, because of his quickness's to jump down low in the play, or take pucks quickly off the wall and fire them on net. He's created a goal multiple times both ways.

Makar's good on the left side too though because he's on his off side, and similarly can make one move to deke the forward, and then break down low towards the circle or slot for a grade A scoring chance, or pass.

I think your point about wanting Makar to shoot on the PP is a good one but I think we kind of see that a lot already, and probably will more in the future as he gains more NHL confidence. The more confidence he has, the more willing he is to jump down low in the play. I really like his Forsberg like ability to circle the zone though and get everyone focused on him, so he can send a pass back door to the wide open man. Byram has that ability too.

All of that said, with the style of Makar and Byram, the Avs are better suited to employ a similar 1-3-1 approach than most teams with 2 D, because both have the skating, puck handling, vision, and willingness to jump down low in the play instead of staying up top. Same with Girard though his shot's not quite as good. So I think you may get your wish at least briefly, because I bet they try Byram-Makar on PP1 just to give it a shot at some point.

This isn't on the PP, but it's a similar setup that shows the kind of plays Makar can make on the left side.

 
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PAZ

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This is my position as well. It’s lunacy to give those last few spots to replacement level AHL players over first round talent who can help win. There’s going to be enough extra vets in the first place, we are talking about guys who have statistically proven to be poor fill-ins who do not need to be part of the process. And you never know how many guys you’ll need. If Girard or Makar go down they need to seriously think about Byram.

I’m thrilled to hear Byram will be coming to camp, I think it’s very meaningful for his development to have any involvement. But it could just be for camp, we’ll see if he gets on the final roster. Still, a good step.

I very strongly believe the Avs need to go 2 D on pp1. So what if the rest of the league uses one D, it’s a competitive advantage for the Avs to have the talent on the back end available to change their look. There was also a recent article about how the PPs that have the Ds taking the majority point shots are the least successful. Makar needs to be used as a shooter on the pp, having him stuck on the point neuters him. I’d put Girard on pp1 as the point man and eventually consider that for Byram. Put Makar high up on the right side, that’s where he likes to shoot from anyway. Mack and a Mikko in their spots then pick whoever to be the net front. They are wasting so much talent with how they utilize the pp right now.

The issue with Girard on PP1 is that everyone and their mother knows he's not going to shoot because he has a muffin of a shot, which makes the PP a lot less lethal. It's similar to when we had Tanguay, Kerfoot, etc. who were good at distributing the puck, but it made the PP pretty predictable. Teams would give them open lanes to shoot and cheat to cover Mackinnon simply because they knew there was no threat. I do agree that ideally Makar slides down and either Girard with an average shot or Byram takes his place at the point.
 

Northern Avs Fan

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No interest in seeing Girard at the point on PP1, unless he makes a big improvement to his shot.

If we’re going to switch it up, I wouldn’t mind trying someone else in the bumper position, instead of Kadri. I like Naz, but, I didn’t think he was very effective in that position this year.
 

PAZ

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No interest in seeing Girard at the point on PP1, unless he makes a big improvement to his shot.

If we’re going to switch it up, I wouldn’t mind trying someone else in the bumper position, instead of Kadri. I like Naz, but, I didn’t think he was very effective in that position this year.

I really hate that bumper position, really I hate our PP1 set-up. It worked well last year, but this year anyone in that bumper position has been pretty damn useless and everyone is just standing around. It's happened far too many times where PP2 looked better and generated more in their 30 seconds than PP1 did in their 90 seconds.
 

Northern Avs Fan

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I really hate that bumper position, really I hate our PP1 set-up. It worked well last year, but this year anyone in that bumper position has been pretty damn useless and everyone is just standing around. It's happened far too many times where PP2 looked better and generated more in their 30 seconds than PP1 did in their 90 seconds.

Yeah, I agree on the bumper spot. It kinda seemed useless. It’s just so easy for the PK to check. They need to start moving the puck around way faster.
 

Cousin Eddie

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I too have often thought the Avs will eventually run 2 d on the pp with Makar and Byram but realistically I don’t see Mackinnon ever playing anywhere but that left point on the PP. Because of this there’s only room for 1 other D.
 

AvsCOL

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I too have often thought the Avs will eventually run 2 d on the pp with Makar and Byram but realistically I don’t see Mackinnon ever playing anywhere but that left point on the PP. Because of this there’s only room for 1 other D.

And Rantanen on the other half wall. Don't think it works any other way than with one defenseman. That's not a knock on Byram though, when's the last time we had a good second powerplay unit?

If the Avs ever signed Hall, or another top winger, that would probably open up Kadri for PP2. Imagine in two years with Byram, Kadri, Newhook, Burakovsky and Girard as your PP2..... Yikes
 

tigervixxxen

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No interest in seeing Girard at the point on PP1, unless he makes a big improvement to his shot.

If we’re going to switch it up, I wouldn’t mind trying someone else in the bumper position, instead of Kadri. I like Naz, but, I didn’t think he was very effective in that position this year.
That’s how the next era PP is evolving, the point man is not supposed to shoot. I get that they need to do it occasionally but you also have Girard shooting for tips and rebounds as well. He’s the best at holding the blue line, distribution and creating space. The goal of the point man is to get the puck as quickly as possible to the forwards to take a shot. Then you free up a Makar to get utilized as a forward, he’s taking wrist shots from the right circle like a forward does. But they could create so many different looks because Makar can be a point man as well, they could put both D out there up high, rotate around to put Makar up top, etc. Then add Byram just gives even more options, I’d get crazy enough to try a 3 D PP in certain situations. The point is the Avs have a distinct competitive advantage with the Ds they have they could try many different things on the pp.
 

The Abusement Park

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That’s how the next era PP is evolving, the point man is not supposed to shoot. I get that they need to do it occasionally but you also have Girard shooting for tips and rebounds as well. He’s the best at holding the blue line, distribution and creating space. The goal of the point man is to get the puck as quickly as possible to the forwards to take a shot. Then you free up a Makar to get utilized as a forward, he’s taking wrist shots from the right circle like a forward does. But they could create so many different looks because Makar can be a point man as well, they could put both D out there up high, rotate around to put Makar up top, etc. Then add Byram just gives even more options, I’d get crazy enough to try a 3 D PP in certain situations. The point is the Avs have a distinct competitive advantage with the Ds they have they could try many different things on the pp.
But they also have a distinct advantage of having Rantanen and Mack on the half walls.
 
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Richard88

John 3:16
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But they also have a distinct advantage of having Rantanen and Mack on the half walls.
Rantanen is probably best on the half wall due to his one-timer, but I think he'd probably be a great fit as a 'rover' around the net as well, with the setup below. This setup would encourage a lot of movement, as Byram naturally likes to move around a lot, which would frequently allow Rantanen to sneak back up to the half boards.

-------------------- <--- Rantanen --> ---------------
Mackinnon -------- Landeskog ---------- Byram
--------------------------- Makar ----------------------


That also frees up Kadri to run PP2:

--------------------- Compher --------------------
Kadri ---------------- Kaut---------- Burakovsky
---------------------- Girard -----------------------

If you need some reminding of what Rantanen can do in that position just watch the 3 assists he got in the game below - all of them being with passes from behind the net:

 

Balthazar

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No one should cry if we go with 2D on the PP. Our 4th forward looks lost and ineffective on the PP anyway.

Kadri just plain sucked this year as the 4th guy. JTC wasn't any better.
 
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Foppa2118

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I don't know if the point shot is going to go away. Especially with the Avs.

The Avs seem to generate most of their PP goals from point shots. Whether it's rebounds or deflections (Landy is one of the best in the league) or Makar's very accurate and well timed wrist shot going in. It was the same when Barrie was running the PP.

I don't see the Avs going away from point shots anytime soon since it's the best weapon they have on the PP IMO.

When Makar's got the puck at the point he's got all kinds of options. He can shoot for the rebounds, screens, deflections. Or he can pass to either Nate or Mikko for the one timer. Or he can switch with Nate so Makar takes the one timer. Or he can rush down low to the right circle to take a shot on net himself. Or he can rush down low to the left circle to take a shot on net.

Makar has generated goals in all these ways, and that's aided by the fact that the PK doesn't know what he's gonna do with the puck at the point. Taking that unpredictability away would make the PP worse IMO.
 

Northern Avs Fan

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No one should cry if we go with 2D on the PP. Our 4th forward looks lost and ineffective on the PP anyway.

Kadri just plain sucked this year as the 4th guy. JTC wasn't any better.

Agree on Kadri, he’s just not all that well suited for the PP1. The players on the first unit are fine other then that.

The Avs had a top 8 power play the two years prior to this season, so they should be able to get back on track.

@Cousin Eddie brought it up initially, but Makar needs to get better on the man advantage. He just wasn’t good enough in that area this season. Honestly, he probably would have been at a 82 point pace if he was better on the PP this year. You keep Makar on that first unit, because I think he’s going to get better with time. There’s no reason he shouldn’t, considering all the skills he possesses.

The 20 games Rantanen missed were also a big blow. He’s as important to the PP as MacKinnon.

I’d give Byram the reigns to the second PP unit when he joins the team and if he excels I’d go to a two defenceman look on the first PP.
 

Foppa2118

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The bumper position Kadri plays isn't just about scoring goals. It's also about keeping the PK box from being too aggressive.

If the forwards get too aggressive and spaced out on the PK, then the bumper position is open for one timers in the slot.

If the forwards stay close to the guy in the bumper spot to take that pass away, then the point men have more time and space to move the puck around and set things up.

It also opens up that cross ice one timer from Nate to Mikko if the PK focuses too much on Kadri.
 

Balthazar

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The bumper position Kadri plays isn't just about scoring goals. It's also about keeping the PK box from being too aggressive.

If the forwards get too aggressive and spaced out on the PK, then the bumper position is open for one timers in the slot.

If the forwards stay close to the guy in the bumper spot to take that pass away, then the point men have more time and space to move the puck around and set things up.

It also opens up that cross ice one timer from Nate to Mikko if the PK focuses too much on Kadri.

Kadri wasn't good at it regardless. Namestnikov on the other hand could be better.
 

Foppa2118

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Kadri wasn't good at it regardless. Namestnikov on the other hand could be better.

I thought Kadri was fine at it. Better at it than Compher, Jost, Wilson, and everyone else they tried IMO.

I think the issue is they don't really use it so the guy is never really ready for the pass. When they're drilling the PP in practice, I would bet they spend the vast majority of the time working on all the other plays, and working on their puck movement and zone entries.

Kadri probably spends time working on that shot with him and Nate setting it up, but not with a full 5 on 4 PP setup. Whoever plays there always seems to fumble the puck when it comes to them, and I would bet that's because they don't spend that much time working on that specific play.
 

Avsboy

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Wilson was actually great there, funnily enough. Not nearly as good a player as Kadri, but man did he get a lot done as the 4th forward on PP1.

He connected with Mackinnon quite a bit on deflections.
 
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