Rumor: Botchford - " Aqualini veto'd a Kesler trade to Pitt "

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

2017 NHL Entry Draft: Ranked #5 by Hockeyprospect.com

He was certainly mine and most advanced stat fan's choice.

How many others was he ranked at 5..?

 

[4Twenty]

Again..no,

Pettersson did not rise like Kotkaniemi..EP was not the ‘consensus BPA’ pick at 5 either..Glass (who was also flown to Vancouver) and Vilardi were rated higher..

The attempts you guys go to differentiate between the OJ pick and the EP one is incredible..The scouting depts mindset was identical.

One paid instant dividends and the other didn’t.Thats the only difference...I wanted Tkachuk as well btw.

LOL. That you won't acknowledge the steady rise, nor acknowledge that he was picked in an expected range with the expected folks (Mittelstadt, Glass, Pettersson, Vilardi), and compare it to the thinking behind Juolevi to pump Jim Benning is just so tiresome. You try to say other being have a narrative, literally everything you post is to try and paint Benning in the best light possible.

I can say he wasn't consensus at the time, he wasn't. Because there was no consensus, but he was a perfectly reasonable pick where he was selected and not a master stroke of scouting acumen.

It's funny we're going to see a bunch of the same stuff with regards to Hughes and the "in benning", "in judd" we trust posts over the next little while, yet it'll be that they took a guy everyone expected them to at the position that player was expected to go. Good on them for swinging for ultimate upside with both Hughes and Pettersson, but these picks were not reaches. That narrative to pump these guys tires is weak.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

you are just deluded. Tkachuk was consensus ahead of OJ, not just ahead of him mind you, but a whole tier ahead of him. Pettersson was taken in the the tier he was drafted in. 1-2 Hirchier/Patrick 3-4 Makar and Heiskanen, and then there was whole new tier of which Pettersson was a part of.

Nobody expected EP to go at 5...

 

[4Twenty]

How many others was he ranked at 5..?

#2 Euro.

CanucksArmy put him at 5.

Melvin had him 1st.

If even people you think are dumb like CA can put him up there, how is it a stretch...or are you going to argue CA put him there for shock value?

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

LOL. That you won't acknowledge the steady rise, nor acknowledge that he was picked in an expected range with the expected folks (Mittelstadt, Glass, Pettersson, Vilardi), and compare it to the thinking behind Juolevi to pump Jim Benning is just so tiresome. You try to say other being have a narrative, literally everything you post is to try and paint Benning in the best light possible.

I can say he wasn't consensus at the time, he wasn't. Because there was no consensus, but he was a perfectly reasonable pick where he was selected and not a master stroke of scouting acumen.

It's funny we're going to see a bunch of the same stuff with regards to Hughes and the "in benning", "in judd" we trust posts over the next little while, yet it'll be that they took a guy everyone expected them to at the position that player was expected to go. Good on them for swinging for ultimate upside with both Hughes and Pettersson, but these picks were not reaches. That narrative to pump these guys tires is weak.

You said he was the BPA at 5 (who’s got the narrative here?)....No consensus for EP,but the was for OJ..?..More collective hive mind thinking.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

#2 Euro.

CanucksArmy put him at 5.

Melvin had him 1st.

If even people you think are dumb like CA can put him up there, how is it a stretch...or are you going to argue CA put him there for shock value?

Canucks Army and Melvin..okey dokey

The experts here at HF Canucks had him listed at 9...

 

[4Twenty]

You said he was the BPA at 5 (who’s got the narrative here?)....No consensus for EP,but the was for OJ..?..More collective hive mind thinking.

Huh, I'm talking about Pettersson. He's the best player from the draft....ie, he WAS the best player available. Clearly you have the narrative when you're not willing to admit he was drafted within an expected range.

I don't care to discuss Juolevi. I personally never liked the prospects of this player...but they drafted Pettersson because he was the best talent available, that was not the case with Juolevi...I've seen you bring up bob mackenzie calling him the best all around defender.....ie not the most talented.


You think you're combating hive mind, but you're really just picking weird arguements, because you're desperate to paint a man in a certain light.

 

[4Twenty]

Canucks Army and Melvin..okey dokey

The experts here at HF Canucks had him listed at 9...

Can you please provide me with a list of experts that suit your fancy, lord knows Bleacher Report doesn't work for prospect rankings....but Corey Pronman does....even when he had the best prospect in the 2017 draft rated 20th LOL....expert!

You think hive mind HF are idiots, why appeal to their ranking?

 

[F A N]

I don't care to discuss Juolevi. I personally never liked the prospects of this player...but they drafted Pettersson because he was the best talent available, that was not the case with Juolevi...I've seen you bring up bob mackenzie calling him the best all around defender.....ie not the most talented.

You're arguing semantics. "Best talent available" means very little. Plenty of busts were considered the "best talent available" such as Filatov. Nichushkin was universally considered the better talent compared to Horvat. The list goes on.

 

[lawrence]

Aquallini also hires torts. Because of his rugged style hank sedins iron man streak came to an end. He needs to stop meddling.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Huh, I'm talking about Pettersson. He's the best player from the draft....ie, he WAS the best player available. Clearly you have the narrative when you're not willing to admit he was drafted within an expected range.

I don't care to discuss Juolevi. I personally never liked the prospects of this player...but they drafted Pettersson because he was the best talent available, that was not the case with Juolevi...I've seen you bring up bob mackenzie calling him the best all around defender.....ie not the most talented.


You think you're combating hive mind, but you're really just picking weird arguements, because you're desperate to paint a man in a certain light.

Wrong again..Villardi,miittelstadt,Glass were all higher ‘consensus BPA’ than EP before the draft..Shrewd pick by the Canucks .

As of today,Hughes looks like another homerun pick..Look forward to your hate goggles parade of excuses for that one..

Good time to be a Canucks fan..looking forward to next season

 

[bandwagonesque]

#2 Euro.

CanucksArmy put him at 5.

Melvin had him 1st.

If even people you think are dumb like CA can put him up there, how is it a stretch...or are you going to argue CA put him there for shock value?

Pettersson was generally thought to be much farther out in the draft than the 5 spot. As far as I'm aware, no reputable analysts had him as high as 5. Are you disputing this? If not, what specific point are you making?

 

[4Twenty]

Good picks, both Hughes and Pettersson both taken within the expected range. I'm glad for them, my point the whole time is that they weren't off the board reaches.

Interesting that hockeyprospect.com (basically the best product on the independent market) does not constitute as a reputable source (they had Pettersson 5th BTW).

 

[Peter10]

Wrong again..Villardi,miittelstadt,Glass were all higher ‘consensus BPA’ than EP before the draft..Shrewd pick by the Canucks .

As of today,Hughes looks like another homerun pick..Look forward to your hate goggles parade of excuses for that one..

Good time to be a Canucks fan..looking forward to next season

They werent concencus BPA. Concencus is if pretty much everyone agree on something, this wasnt the case here. While it is true that a higher number of rankings had Vilardi and Glass ahead of Pettersson, there are some (hockeyprospect.com, CA f.e.) who had Pettersson had 5, CA even said they wouldnt be surprised if Pettersson went at 3. If you want to see concensus look up Tkachuk vs Juolevi.

Btw how is it a homerun pick if you select the highest ranked player available?

 

[I in the Eye]

I don't care to discuss Juolevi. I personally never liked the prospects of this player...but they drafted Pettersson because he was the best talent available, that was not the case with Juolevi...I've seen you bring up bob mackenzie calling him the best all around defender.....ie not the most talented.

Before being drafted, Grand Master Benning, himself, acknowledged that the dman they were targeting was seen as a top 4 dman... whereas the forwards they were looking at were seen as 1st line players.

The drafting of Juolevi wasn't an issue with scouting, imo. The scouts pegged Juolevi as a lower ceiling than the centers they were targeting. The drafting of Juolevi was an issue of targeting specifically a dman or center (not BPA), and not having Tkachuk on the radar at all because he was a winger (already had Virtanen), and being hellbent on getting a center or dman that fit within an imaginary future team.

 

[timw33]

Tkachuk on the radar at all because he was a winger (already had Virtanen)

Yep, what good could you possibly do with two winger prospects.

 

[Cogburn]

Pettersson wasn't a consensus 5 pick. I remember hearing his name and thinking "him?" But I wasn't night on the others around him either. It wasn't the safe pick, but it wasn't some magical, off board mind**** either. It was a good pick and wasn't totally telegraphed.

Hughes however got bumped down after Kotkaniemi, Tkachuk, Hayton and then Zadina all bumped the expected trend. The team got lucky and we got a consensus 5 pick 7th that fell right into our lap. That wasn't genius, that was unadulterated luck.

 

[timw33]

It was a good pick and wasn't totally telegraphed.

I agree with the first statement about him not being consensus five—there was a group of several prospects that could have gone in that group after Nico/Patrick/Heisk/Makar. On the telegraphed front, it became pretty apparent it was Glass or Pettersson as they flew only these two prospects in for in-town visits.

 

[Ryp37]

Canucks Army and Melvin..okey dokey

The experts here at HF Canucks had him listed at 9...

almost like there's tons of varying opinions on here, here's mine

2017 NHL Draft Discussion Part 9

Do you enjoy being wrong? It's such a dumb argument anyway, we're all happy with the pick now who cares if it was a reach or not. Surprise party our 1st rounder is the one where they gave Judd full control since 2016 was so ugly lmao

 

[Pavel96]

Nobody expected EP to go at 5...

Lol. Do you just say whatever fits your narrative without doing any research?

All you have to do is google - elias petterson draftranking

the very first article that comes up is - Should the Canucks draft Elias Pettersson?

"But there’s another player that has gone somewhat under the radar that might be the Canucks best option for finding a first-line centre: Elias Pettersson."

"This is reflected in Pettersson’s position in the various draft rankings. He ranges anywhere from 5th (HockeyProspect.com) to 27th (Sportsnet’s Jeff Marek)..."

"There are some rankings that are very high on Pettersson. Central Scouting Services ranks him as the second best European skater in the draft, behind the controversial Klim Kostin. For those who favour analytics in their drafting, Scouching ranks him third overall. So does prospects writer Zachary Devine."

"It’s not hard to see why he’s rated so highly. Pettersson tore up the Allsvenskan this past season, putting up just short of a point per game. His 41 points in 43 games for Timrå IK was good enough for 9th in league scoring. The only U-20 player who scored more was his teammate and new Canucks prospect Jonathan Dahlen, who is a year older. The next best teenager had just 24 points.

That type of production for a teenager against men is undeniably impressive. Not even William Nylander and Filip Forsberg produced at that rate in the Allsvenskan as teenagers."



Anyways, just ignore all of this on the first google search. Only Benning could have known that EP would be this good. Only Benning. No one else could be as genius as Benning is. Benning is simply the best. No one could be doing a better job than Benning is.

 

[bandwagonesque]

Surprise party our 1st rounder is the one where they gave Judd full control since 2016 was so ugly lmao

This is contradicted by everything everyone in the front office has said about the draft. There were ongoing conversations amongst Judd, Benning, Delorme and others about who to pick. Benning actually viewed Pettersson in person before the Canucks' Swedish scout and was impressed. Benning is on record saying Delorme viewed him before Brackett and pushed first and hardest for him. The idea that this was solely Brackett's pick and Benning had no input or didn't scout Pettersson is completely false. Benning was the one who eventually deciding against moving down in case Vegas drafted him.

 

[Josepho]

Canucks Army and Melvin..okey dokey

The experts here at HF Canucks had him listed at 9...

So You Think You Can Draft 2017

 

[Ryp37]

This is contradicted by everything everyone in the front office has said about the draft. There were ongoing conversations amongst Judd, Benning, Delorme and others about who to pick. Benning actually viewed Pettersson in person before the Canucks' Swedish scout and was impressed. Benning is on record saying Delorme viewed him before Brackett and pushed first and hardest for him. The idea that this was solely Brackett's pick and Benning had no input or didn't scout Pettersson is completely false. Benning was the one who eventually deciding against moving down in case Vegas drafted him.

 

[bandwagonesque]

The post I responded to alleged Judd had full control over the draft and implied Benning had little input into the 1st pick. The tweet you've quoted literally just says Brackett has a way of "doing things" that involves having particular strategies for evaluating players and is far too vague to substantiate the idea the he had full control over the draft. I know you're intelligent enough to have understood this before posting it.

 

[Peter10]

This is contradicted by everything everyone in the front office has said about the draft. There were ongoing conversations amongst Judd, Benning, Delorme and others about who to pick. Benning actually viewed Pettersson in person before the Canucks' Swedish scout and was impressed. Benning is on record saying Delorme viewed him before Brackett and pushed first and hardest for him. The idea that this was solely Brackett's pick and Benning had no input or didn't scout Pettersson is completely false. Benning was the one who eventually deciding against moving down in case Vegas drafted him.

Link?

And no it was not Benning deciding against moving down, it was Vegas who called off the trade.